@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @TRIPOS Quote: Today the operating system for Amiga computers is called Workbench, nothing else. Cloanto may have other opinion.

But they don't.

Workbench is a real product they sell (click on the links below), both as part of Amiga Forever, as well as stand-alone. Workbench is also a formal trade mark owned by them, obviously registered solely for this purpose. They couldn't call it "AmigaOS" even if they wanted to. And why would they? It's Workbench, as simple as that.

Today, the OS situation is like this:

1) Workbench, which is the undisputed original, for real Amiga's, it's owned and marketed by Cloanto, using the "Workbench" name:

Workbench 1.0
Workbench 1.1
Workbench 1.2
Workbench 1.3 (Also sold separately of the emulation package, for real Amigas, with minor updates)
Workbench 2.0
Workbench 2.04
Workbench 2.05
Workbench 2.1 (Also sold separately of the emulation package, for real Amigas, with minor updates)
Workbench 3.0
Workbench 3.1 (Also sold separately of the emulation package, also in physical media, for real Amigas, with a few significant updates)
Workbench 3.X (The latest and most developed, AFAIK currently only available through the Amiga Forever 6 emulation package)


Then we also have the three "NG" branches:

2) AROS, for various platforms

3) MorphOS, for 83 PPC systems, and a few motherboards on top of that (and on its way to go "real NG")

4) AmigaOS 4, for AmigaOne and PowerUP systems, published by Hyperion

There it is! A complete picture of the current situation! Easy enough to grasp, right?

@TRIPOS

Clearly, Cloanto "just" did not have the name for AmigaOS. We all know what AmigaOS consist of.

btw. AmigaOS4 is also available on Pegasos2 and I thkin Cloanto could/should try to make it available also via AmigaForever, officially.


+
From my youth ... before AmigaOS name was adobted, Amiga was using "AmigaDOS Operating System", as the manual says. Workbench was just "interface" above DOS.

With 3.1 release by CBM, AmigaDOS Operating System became AmigaOS.
http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/amigaos31.html
http://www.ntrautanen.fi/computers/commodore/images/amiga/os_31_dos.jpg

Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Aug-2015 at 01:28 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Aug-2015 at 01:27 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Aug-2015 at 01:19 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

+1 hehe..nice

_________________
nox's in the house!

@pavlor

Ah !!! "Successfull" couldn't be argued, lets go to "achievement" (no doubt in the special Olympics meaning of that word).

But also "continued" and "development" are quite a hard sell when it comes to AmigaOne-HW.

Eyetech sold a few 100 rebadged and bodged eval-boards to unsuspectinmg costumers before running of after NOT honoring warranties ("nondevelopment" and "discontinued" are they words you were searching here ).

Years later some Kiwi-millionaire decided he had some money to waste and ordered a batch of overpriced&oddfeatured boards based on a CPU that had been declared a stillbirth years before. Same millionaire is now preparing another overpriced board based on barely suitable SoC while an Italian company rebranded their underperforming board as AmigaOne500.

If we take these standards for "success" or even "achievement" one just can't argue that Escom, GateWay/H&P(3.5) and Bernie Meyer achieved more success.

Heck, you can even add Amino to that list, offcourse not for developing AmigaDE but for finding so many suckers to fall for their con.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: With 3.1 release by CBM, AmigaDOS Operating System became AmigaOS.

On CBM's retail packaging I see:

Amiga (R)
OS 3.1
Commodore

Quite clearly - it's the main branding on the outer sleeve, which would be all the customer saw when it was on the shelves.

OS 3.1 for the Amiga range of computers by Commodore, incidentally highlighting the word "Amiga" as being the registered trademark with a little (R).
The back packaging also lists all trademarks used on the outer packaging and their respective owners - amongst which is neither "AmigaOS" nor "Amiga OS."

My compliments for providing such a useful link :)

OS releases by Amiga Technologies/International began to brand it as "Amiga OS" (including their post-commodore 3.1 releases). Cloanto's site, impartial if not definitive, states "AmigaOS" branding began with 4.0. (Apologies for the multi-editing).

Last edited by Boot_WB on 17-Aug-2015 at 03:44 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 17-Aug-2015 at 03:36 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 17-Aug-2015 at 03:31 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@TRIPOS

Quote:

But they don't.

Really?

@Kronos

Your dislike for AmigaOne noted. May I ask, you are Pegasos owner since 2002?

Quote:

Heck, you can even add Amino to that list, offcourse not for developing AmigaDE but for finding so many suckers to fall for their con.

It is in the list - original AmigaOne platform was concept of Amiga.Inc (former Amino).

@TRIPOS

Quote:

there is no need for made-up unofficial nicknames like "Classic"

Even owner of your favourite "Workbench" uses term "classic" - see my link above (or even better Workbench for classic Amiga announcement).

@KimmoK

No this is wrong.

From the very page you referenced to, you can read that this Village Tronic published "Amiga OS 3.1" you are talking about was released a month after Commodore's liquidation, and this is true. And that batch was considered illegal/pirate copies by the IP holder. It's of course obvious that Commodore had the intention to go forth with this, but they never got the chance before they vanished. The first one *ever* putting a legal/official product using the "Amiga OS" name to market, was Escom, who put the 3.1 on their newly produced A1200's and A4000's and released a stand-alone upgrade for old Amigas.

Some people seem rather desperate to make it look like "it always was Amiga OS". Nothing could be further from the truth, and it's touching historical revisionism!

This is a fact: Commodore made the Amiga, but they NEVER EVER sold a single product branded "Amiga OS". Not one single product during its lifetime!

Today the operating system for Amiga is called Workbench.
And "AmigaOS" [4] is a product that doesn't run on Amigas at all, it's for AmigaOne (and PowerUP and Pegasos2 based systems).

@TRIPOS

Quote:

PowerUP

I thought PowerUP were CPU cards for Amiga... but yes, you know better.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @TRIPOS Quote: But they don't. Really?

Yes, really!

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: Even owner of your favourite "Workbench" uses term "classic"

"Classic" was invented by the Amino clowns as a way to be able to shift non-Amiga related products to Amiga faithfuls using the Amiga brand.

All true friends of the Amiga knows that Amiga is Amiga, nothing else.

And AmigaOne is AmigaOne. Different brand, for different products.

And regarding the topic of this thread: Amiga OS is indeed for none Amiga Hardware (AmigaOne). The OS for Amiga hardware is marketed as Workbench.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: I thought PowerUP were CPU cards for Amiga...

The PPC part of PowerUP is in practice a computer by itself, with the Amiga computer attached to it like an appendix. Amiga OS [4] can only run on this, it can not run on the Amiga without it. No product branded "Amiga OS" today runs native on Amiga. But Workbench does.

Quote:

but yes, you know better.

Obviously, yes...

@TRIPOS

Quote:

"Classic" was invented

Although I´m Amino fan, this term was used even before in Gateway2000 times. Look at then Amiga.com webpage.

Quote:

All true friends of the Amiga knows that Amiga is Amiga, nothing else.

Yet, they struggle in definition of scope of that cathegory.

Quote:

The OS for Amiga hardware is marketed as Workbench.

Really?

@TRIPOS

Quote:

The PPC part of PowerUP is in practice a computer by itself, with the Amiga computer attached to it like an appendix. Amiga OS [4] can only run on this, it can not run on the Amiga without it. No product branded "Amiga OS" today runs native on Amiga. But Workbench does.

A4000 (not CR) will not even boot without PowerUP (or other CPU) card...

Quote:

Obviously, yes...

I thought so.

@TRIPOS

Quote:

No product branded "Amiga OS" today runs native on Amiga. But Workbench does.

What about 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9 or do you mean available to buy today?

BTW. The PPC version of Workbench will not runon a 68k only system.

@thread

> Why Amiga OS on none Amiga Hardware?
Why Amiga OS on <whatever hardware>?

If you like Amiga OS (like I do), I enjoy it on any hardware, especially if this hardware is modern and a form factor I prefer.

Last edited by Wanderer on 18-Aug-2015 at 05:15 AM.

_________________
--
Author of
HD-Rec, Sweeper, Samplemanager, ArTKanoid, Monkeyscript, Toadies, AsteroidsTR, TuiTED, PosTED, TKPlayer, AudioConverter, ScreenCam, PerlinFX, MapEdit, AB3 Includes and many more...
Homepage: http://www.hd-rec.de

As pavlor linked, Cloanto's summary should end the name debate.

"So it comes that at Cloanto we have both original "AmigaDOS" documentation from 1985 and 1986 stating that "AmigaDOS is a multi-processing operating system designed for the Amiga", and written developer's documentation by Commodore saying that "AmigaDOS" should not be used to refer to the name of the Amiga operating system."

"The name "Workbench" was originally not meant to express the concept of an "operating system" as in "OS" or "DOS". Neither Commodore-Amiga nor any of its successors ever used the word "Workbench" to refer to an operating system. "

****************

Some people used AmigaDOS when they meant Amiga operating system and some used "Workbench" because that's written on the floppy and WB tittle bar.
Some people (like one of my work mates) think that Amiga did not have OS at all.

I got HDD equipped Amiga in 1989, perhaps that's why I think Amiga OS was not unclear to me ever.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@TRIPOS

Workbench is just the visible interface on top of the OS. That's what CBM AmigaDOS manual told me.

AmigaOS can use Scalos, Magellan beside Workbench as the user interface. Or it can be used even without wb kind of interface.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @TRIPOS Quote: The PPC part of PowerUP is in practice a computer by itself, with the Amiga computer attached to it like an appendix. Amiga OS [4] can only run on this, it can not run on the Amiga without it. No product branded "Amiga OS" today runs native on Amiga. But Workbench does. A4000 (not CR) will not even boot without PowerUP card...

Wrong again, the A4000 running the 680x0 Kickstart/Workbench needs an Amiga compatible 68k CPU in order to boot, a PowerUP card is not at all required.

The Amiga Kickstart/Workbench can not run native on PPC CPU's, only on Amiga computers. As well as todays AmigaOS (4) can not run native on the Amiga side as well, it's all on the PPC side of the PowerUP. Once booted, the AmigaOS (4) merely treats the Amiga as a bolted-on appendix, a dongle. It may be able to access it but there is nothing in it that is required for AmigaOS. The fact that it is made for AmigaOne (which basically is a PC with a PPC CPU) is proof of that. The real 68k Workbench OS needs a real Amiga though. And maybe you don't like this, but it's a fact that many Amigans do like this, it is why they are here and what they like. The real Amigas, running Workbench. So please don't belittle them with your "classic" talk!

Quote:

Quote: Obviously, yes... I thought so.

It becomes more obvious for every post you make!