@fishy_fis

Quote:

Seriously guy, what's with the need to put down Arti's hard work over and over again?

Quote:

Seems you believe that removing SDL will magically make 68k amigas faster. It won't. The differences will be negligible beyond the interface. In fact as it stands Arti's version is faster.

exactly. chris version is very far from usable state so far i read the thread, and it certainly was last time i tried it. it was also way slower than arturs one, and i doubt that simply enabling compiler optimizations will compensate for it. it may be that the os4 plotter is less efficient than the sdl one, because it was made to be working on set of machines with few hundred mhz cpu speed. i wish chris succeeded, but putting his alpha stage effort with actually working implementation to bash the latter is rather unfair.

@jazz79

im not sure what version you want to compile? is it aros owb? it is working under aros68k, contained in networking apps directory of contributions. if you want to port it to genuine amiga system, best thing would be to set up a cross compiler on linux, as aros apps depend on a number of tools tbat may not be available or work correctly elsewhere. its a though job, if you are not a programmer, sorry.

Oxygen browser? I must have missed that, but perhaps I haven't been paying attention... Is it yet another thing based on Origyn?

And when talking about Origyn, then which one? There are AFAIK a few completely separate projects based on Origyn, for a few different platforms. So which one?

Or is it the MorphOS browser Odyssey, that has also forks on AROS and OS4? If so, which one?



(Confusing when people persist in using the generic "OWB" abbreviation in discussions when this word can mean so many completely different things! )

@TRIPOS

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote: Oxygen browser? I must have missed that, but perhaps I haven't been paying attention... Is it yet another thing based on Origyn?

probably the one from szymczyk, an early port to aros. as i wrote above.

@wawa

Nobody is bashing Arthur's work. He has build a browser wich is based to SDL / Framebuffer version of Netsurf. That version is never meant to be used like that. That is simple fact.

And SDL AGA is Novacoder's quick / dirty hack to make some game port possible to AGA Amigas. This way Netsurf will allways have two diffrent versions, one for AGA and one for RTG. This is also a just a fact.

Nobody shouldn't wonder why people has opinions current version of netsurf. BUT it still not a bashing or unfair.

Removing SDL woun't make 68k cpus faster, but at least they don't need to spend time for software is made for hundreds MHz machines.

Last edited by utri007 on 04-Sep-2015 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by utri007 on 04-Sep-2015 at 01:46 PM.

@utri007

the newest versions are without ixemul and considerably faster, on my emulated system many pages load and show in just 5 seconds. The other "Reaction" Netsurf is a no go to me because it depends on a closed proprietary gui toolkit. You can have your opinion about Artis Netsurf, I have too (but propably the opposite of yours)

Perhaps "nobody" should wonder but I do

Last edited by OlafS25 on 04-Sep-2015 at 02:47 PM.

@utri007

besides of other problems Reaction GUI not very future proof... I do not see much sense

also when talking about Framebuffer... it works and is fast

the other version of Netsurf has to be faster still

@utri007

Quote:

Nobody is bashing Arthur's work. He has build a browser wich is based to SDL / Framebuffer version of Netsurf. That version is never meant to be used like that. That is simple fact.

netsurf wasnt also meant to be userd on amigas i guess. this may be what netsurf coders say, right. and you simply repeat what others say without reflecting upon that very much. another, maybe unpolular with you, fact is that sdl fork actually works, whether it has been meant to or not.

Quote:

And SDL AGA is Novacoder's quick / dirty hack to make some game port possible to AGA Amigas.

whether its quick and dirty i cannot judge, i couldnt even if ive seen the code. you? and what concerns "hack", almost everything made to work on amiga can be put within this category, simply because non designs platform independant software today in order to work on 256 color paletted planar display. so what?

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This way Netsurf will allways have two diffrent versions, one for AGA and one for RTG. This is also a just a fact.

here im with you. there should be one versopn for all systems ideally. but since there is not..

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Removing SDL woun't make 68k cpus faster

at least this is you guys are slowly getting, after you have claimed the opposite for years, likely because someone told you, sdl is bad.

Last edited by wawa on 04-Sep-2015 at 03:43 PM.

@wawa

If you quote me, please do it correctly.

Quote:

Removing SDL woun't make 68k cpus faster, but at least they don't need to spend time for software is made for hundreds MHz machines.

Everything with SDL and 68k is pure crap. I have triend quite lot of them and my 68k Amigas has best possible cpus. 040/060

First line Quote:

Removing SDL woun't make 68k cpus faster

was sarcasm, there is no way to make excisting 68k cpus faster.

and what you forget from your quote was Quote:

but at least they don't need to spend time for software is made for hundreds MHz machines.

Last edited by utri007 on 04-Sep-2015 at 06:04 PM.

@utri007


Quote:

If you quote me, please do it correctly.

have i quoted you out of context? do i need autorise quoting you?

Quote:

Everything with SDL and 68k is pure crap. I have triend quite lot of them and my 68k Amigas has best possible cpus. 040/060

consequently chris' reaction netsurf is even more crap atm, since it is even slower than the sdl frontend and not rendering correctly. seriously you should stop this stupid crap calling. there are reasons why contemporary sdl apps are usually too heavy for 68k machines and it is not because sdl is crap. it is simply question of high demands, because the systems these apps have been programmeed for lack amiga limitations. for instanece the zorro rtg bus throughput, which is around 7-10 m/s.

Quote:

but at least they don't need to spend time for software is made for hundreds MHz machines.

im simply not getting what that does mean.

alright. i understand and support your enthusasm for chris, but it wont get people help with it, calling others people effort crap. especially if they continously delivered a valid alternative to whats your preference.

Last edited by wawa on 04-Sep-2015 at 08:14 PM.

This will undoubtedly fall on deaf ears, but SDL isn't particularly slow.
There's very little speed difference between SDL and "native" functions.
The reason SDL software generally performs pretty poorly on 68k Amiga systems is in its use, not in SDL itself. Couple this with the fact that Amiga rtg APIs are pretty sub-par when it comes to moving a lot of graphics around (vast majority of SDL software is games) and of course you'll get pretty slow end results. A straight recompile of generic use of the api, plus ixemul (which is what most are) is hardly representative.

An optimized, or more carefully used functions, SDL program will be very little different speed wise to a "native" piece of software.
Something like a browser wont be very influenced when using SDL. The browser engine itself will eat the vast majority of CPU time on a 68k system.
Might consume a little more memory, but an extra few meg is hardly going to make a difference when you're going to have to compromise your browser usage regardless. 68k amigas (and even ppc "ng" amigas for that matter) simply don't have the ram resources to cope with the modern "web" without making compromises to types and volume of webpages/tabs in use.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 05-Sep-2015 at 06:19 AM.

I was not even aware that there is OWB for OS3.x

Any links?

_________________
Peg1, Peg2, Efika,
Amiga 500, Amiga 1230,
Amiga 4000PPC,
Sam 440EP, AmigaOne XE,
MacMini PPC, PowerMac G4, G5

@utri007

"but at least they don't need to spend time for software is made for hundreds MHz machines."

what does that mean?

@OlafS25

It means that SDL is for newer machines, wich has more cpu power. SDL works very well on my OS4 machine.

@Morphix

Quote:

I was not even aware that there is OWB for OS3.x Any links?

you dont want these links. trust me.

.. but then you can still download aros68k nightly and give aros68k owb a try. just a hint, not advertising anything ;)

Last edited by wawa on 05-Sep-2015 at 03:12 PM.

@Morphix

As wawa wrote, not really useable.

Can´t find OWB OS3/68k on Aminet right now, it was on author´s (Joerg Strohmayer) page, but this is not available anymore.

@utri007

I find certain SDL games like Wargus consume my CPU time on my 800Mhz A1 and if I go back to WB and click on some windows the system locks up. So not working very well for me! Of course the game is likely taking up CPU cycles running LUA in realtime. Lacking JIT I suspect. But it doesn't lockup my friends 800Mhz Sam flex machine.

@Hypex

Try lower screen resolution. I hadn´t such problem in WinUAE/OS4 (much lower configuration than yours).

@fishy_fis

It will fall on deaf ears indeed. When used as a simple framebuffer device, you won't have a whole lot of overhead with SDL.

_________________
This is just like television, only you can see much further.

but because old version of owb for aros don't run on a classica machine?