@Raffaele

Quote:

Once a person said (or so): "If you want your dreams come true stop saying I wish, and start saying I will, and do it!" His name was Steve Jobs.

Reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where Brian writes an positive thinking self help book to see if he can fool people into buying it.

It's easy saying such things when you are a billionare. Which he became through the work of others. That man gets way to much credit than he deserves.

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@Yasu

Quote:

"If you want your dreams come true stop saying I wish, and start saying I will, and do it!"

thing is, everybody bringing up that quote should apply it to themselves in the first pölace.

@Raffaele

Gets me wondering what OS you were planning to use for the initial testing of the
" new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU".

Quote:

Raffaele wrote: @Rob Quote: Rob wrote: @wawa [quote]it would please me if people were posting less of their lengthy pipedreams onlne. its tiresome. It's not difficult to ignore a thread. I'm not really interested in Linux on the X1000 so I simply pay little attention and let the people who are interested get on with their discussion It makes life a lot easier for everyone.

Quote:

Duh... For a strange coincidence me too avoiding those annoying X1000 Linux threads that show only that there is no any advance from AmigaOS side...

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Last edited by Spectre660 on 18-Mar-2016 at 03:43 PM.

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@Rose

Don't worry, I already saved you the effort.
As stated before, its not happened outside of a prototype.

So I'll do the eating.
It is just too fuggin' expensive.

And...Bill Buck explored the idea and was actively discouraged from persuing the idea by the cpu's manufacturer.

ALSO, those who have asked what it might have run probably would have not been pleased with the answer.
Linux and MorphOS.

Getting Hyperion on board would/could involve further investment.

Finally, of the three boards suggested, I got the most positive feedback on the T2080 based system. It would have been much more powerful than the base T1042 system OR Tabor. But it would not beat the single thread benches for the X5000 and would require SMP to really shine.

For those of you that think you want a Tabor board, good luck with that.
A RPi3 will walk all over that.

I may still buy a four core X5000, and I already have a PCIe G5, so I'm covered.

And MorphOS can stay with the higher end PPCs (like the X5000), it could move to a more powerful PPC like the Power8, or move to X64.
All without my investing time and money into a new system.

So...as a MorphOS user, I'm set.
And, as most of my support came from those users anyway...

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@terminills

Quote:

terminills wrote: @Raffaele Quote: I can't blame Iggy for staying silent as this could be his way of working, but I blame him for not advicing publicly that he is gone quitting. He did state in public that he had given up on the idea. http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40882&forum=14&start=240&viewmode=flat&order=0#778134

Thanks for the info terminills!


@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @terminills raffaelle knows that very well, as he posted there too. good thing iggy admitted, but he didnt come up with this explanation himself. thats quite a common behaviour even if not unexpected.

"Brilliant Holmes!", or must I have to say "Elementary wawa!", as it seems that you know me better than myself do!

You have deduced my behaviour from a coincidence of Cartesian assumptions...

Raffaele knew that Iggy quitted (deduction) because Raffaele read that thread (assumption 1) because Raffaele once wrote a comment in that thread... (assumption 2)

I am amazed and amused at the same time...

But also worried and annoyied you ascribe me things that I did or did not, only in your mind...

This is second time you insinuate things about me...

I warn you that you are at the very corner of forum rules.

But I must also warn you that you failed your exam as spanish inquisitor, or gestapo detective or ceka spy...

Re-read carefully the thread your are pointing to...

I never wrote any comment in it, and I am not following that thread because I am MorphOS user and not interested in misadventures of poor AmigaOS user abandoned by Hyperion who lacks releasing new 4.2 update...

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_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@iggy

I beg your pardon but I must admit I did not understand a sh** from your last comment...

Can you please resume your self control and explain better what you want to communicate us?

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@iggy

Quote:

As stated before, its not happened outside of a prototype.

what? a prototype is there?

@Raffaele

Quote:

Re-read carefully the thread your are pointing to...

alright, must have mistaken you for someone else, like realize, its not that unusual.

but then id expect you at least to keep a little track of developments you try to convince people for. iggy has answered to inquiries about his efforts all over the place, here as well as on morph zone. it isnt hard to spot. how come you are so uninformed?

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Raffaele Quote: Re-read carefully the thread your are pointing to... alright, must have mistaken you for someone else, like realize, its not that unusual. but then id expect you at least to keep a little track of developments you try to convince people for. iggy has answered to inquiries about his efforts all over the place, here as well as on morph zone. it isnt hard to spot. how come you are so uninformed?

I have a life in real life...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

No, I can't really dumb it down for you.
But let me clarify a few points.
I spent $1300 on new software for this and was prepared to spend quite a bit more.
In addition to posting here and elsewhere, I contacted some knowledgable people (including some of my friends using or developing MorphOS like Mark Olsen) and Bill Buck at Genesi who has more than a little experience in projects like this (and he has access to production hardware).

We had it honed down to three alternatives.
Bill actually scheduled a meeting (in person) with Freescale reps last December.
He received active discouragement from persuing this idea.

All this was done with limited help from the Amiga community (but I would still like to thank those that chimed in as it helped to narrow the number of possibilities).

I'd still like to move foward (as I have the software needed to manipulate NXP's reference design files), but without financing production is not happening.

So...what about all this sh*t confuses you?

@iggy

Kickstarter ?

Think many would be interested founding this.

@wawa

Quote:

prototype

The first design proposal was based on the T1042RDB, a variant of the T1040RDB.

Many who offered input preffered a T2081 or T2080 based solution.
That is why I approached Bill Buck (he had two engineers that could have worked on this project).

I still favor the original idea.
I had to change PCB manfacturers when the company I normally work with balked at the Cadence files.
So I still have the original work I did...

But in order for this to work, it needed to be done quickly (I was not kidding about the one year time frame).

So this is now a personal project.
The T1042RDB needs some further refinement (mainly removing some parts and improving layout and parts placement).
This is not nearly as easy as it sounds, as this affects all layers of the board.

But, I could send off what I have now for a test run.
The board itself is not that expensive.
Populating it.....much more complicated.

And additional cost is what has limited me moving forward.

Last edited by iggy on 19-Mar-2016 at 02:45 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 19-Mar-2016 at 02:44 PM.

@iggy

Quote:

ALSO, those who have asked what it might have run probably would have not been pleased with the answer. Linux and MorphOS.

That seems reasonable. It looks like it will take months to get AmigaOS 4.1 running on Tabor, so there's really no hope of getting it running on yet another new platform.

And given the choice between Linux and MorphOS, the later is the only interesting option, since anyone who wants to run Linux is already doing so on much cheaper hardware.

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@iggy

Quote:

Bill actually scheduled a meeting (in person) with Freescale reps last December. He received active discouragement from persuing this idea.

Did Bill comment if they were discouraging him on a technical or administrative reasons?

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

You could ask him yourself.
He actually answers most messages directly.

I guess I have not completely explained Bill's part in this.
He asked for and received the initial proposals and after some consideration decided that his engineers could work on it.
But first he wanted to investigate the practicality of the idea AND meet with Freescale (now NXP).
Support from power2people and Genesi would have been extremely useful.

But I get the impression that he got a really negative response from Freescale.

Is his participation essential?
Well, I only have a couple hours a week to devote to this (sound familiar?).
I have a full time job, I just applied to start working on my Masters, and I already have a lot of hardware (68K, Coldfire, PPC, and X64).
So, yeah, that kind of help would have been fantastic.

And you know how many AmigaWorld posters were seriously interested in helping?
About three.

So it is a backburner project now.
If a prototype gets produced before Tabor is introduced for sale, that would be nice.

Last edited by iggy on 19-Mar-2016 at 05:24 PM.

@tangoone

Quote:

Kickstarter?

I am really uncomfortable asking for funding from anyone who does not have some experience in this field.

If we had a final prototype, then Kickstarter might make sense.

Last edited by iggy on 19-Mar-2016 at 06:39 PM.

@iggy

I'm backdated on this thread so it may be mentioned elsewhere but can you share the ballpark costs to produce a prototype and production version of the board?

@ne_one

An estimate?
Well the PCB firm I used to employ would run off as little as ten bare boards.
The firm that they refered me to is larger (and I expect more expensive to work with).
But the bare boards should cost no more than $100 (and less in higher numbers).
CPU costs would be almost three times what a volume purchase would require (Freescale/NXP offers discounts on purchases of 1000 PPCs, or 300 Coldfire cpus).
But that would not cost much more than the board.
I do not have a complete price on the other items in the BOM.

The really expensive part?
Assembly.
Component placement and reflow soldering for a few prototypes is bound to be almost as expensive as the 50 board production runs I proposed.

Realistically though, it should not be more expensive than buying T1042RDBs from NXP.
And the RDB is in short supply anyway.

A ballpark figure, about $2000 for two.
With full runs at a much better price.

But Aeon does have an advantage here.
They bought 1000 P1022 cpus in one purchase for production.
In years past, it was possible to negotiate with Motorola or Freescale on better pricing at lower volumes.
Today its just not that easy.

But...at least they will sell you product.
Other companies (like IBM) won't even discuss low volume sales.

So...if I wasn't spending about $4K per semester for the next eighteen months, it would not be too odious.

Hmm, I wish you had not asked that question.
It makes it seem simple.

Now, take the BOM, figure out what that would cost in lots of 50 (which would offer some discounts) and finishing becomes a smaller factor.

But the total costs require a player with deeper pockets than mine.
Now does asking Bill for help make sense?

What I guess I have not made clear is that this would definately be more expensive to build than Tabor.
It doesn't have the same economy of scale.

How much that affects the comparitive cost to the buyer is really up to the margin Aeon expects on its board.

@iggy

That's not as bad as I anticipated, assuming that the initial two boards are issue-free.

At ~$1k each for the first two, where would you guess limited volumes of 50 would come in? Perhaps optimistically... $750 not including custom software?

Is it also possible to source out the CPUs in lower volumes by co-oping on an order?

I would have no issue paying up to 1000€ for a board that is the same ballpark speedwise as the X5000.

Chipping in 100€ for development would also be no problem, even more if it was counted as a downpayment for the final board.

Also once a working prototype exists, I would have no problem prepaying the full price a few months in advance.

So all you should do now (if you want to continue) is find out wether you can somehow create a prototype and at what final price (ballpark figure) you could do a limited production run later on.

Last edited by Kronos on 20-Mar-2016 at 09:38 AM.

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