@cdimauro

Problem is, the art of developing on Amiga (because art it is) is slowly getting forgot; once there was a bigger community of people that liked to meddle around, nowadays is just like no more (much less) than a hundred people skilled in Assembly coding and some that - like me - lack the adequate knowledge and skills to go low level and try to do something in Blitz, AMOS or other languages or tools (backbone, reality,etc) around that let us develop "something"...

Last edited by saimon69 on 14-Dec-2015 at 09:03 PM.

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@saimon69

I know what takes to make a platform game.

You need a story.
You need characters.
You need physics.
You need good graphics.
You need wow factor
Game's has keep the player challenged.
You need music.
You need sound effects.

This might be written in AMOS, but this is a lot of work, respect.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2015 at 09:33 PM.

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@saimon69: the primary problem is that working low-level means spending an unbelievable amount of time for getting some concrete result.

When we were young, we had plenty of time, and it was possible. Now we have tons of responsibilities, and very little time.

That's why a greatly prefer using Python: it allows me to experiment with my ideas, and quickly create models. The downside is that it's 100 times slower than C, and eats 5-10x memory. But for my projects is OK, or I can switch to PyPy (10 times better speed; similar memory consumption).

So, for me doesn't make sense at all to work in assembly.

For a graphic artistic I think is similar: scratching the head working on a single pixel basis, with a very limited color palette, it's a too painful work.

The same for a musician which has to compose music with only 4 8-bit channels, a very limited space for samples, and arranging the channels in order to "free" one for reproducing some sound effect for a while without compromising too much the soundtrack.

We live on 2016 (I'm going a bit ahead ): it's better to take advantage of what the technology has given to us.

Of course, if someone has time and enjoys developing for an Amiga 500 or 1200, a Commodore 64, etc., who can stop him?

My 2 cents

@saimon69

Quote:

like me - lack the adequate knowledge and skills to go low level and try to do something in Blitz, AMOS or other languages or tools (backbone, reality,etc) around that let us develop "something"...

BlitzBasic is the better language.
AMOS is an alien ported from ATARI.

BlitzBasic2 you can easily inline assembler, so It's easy to learn assembler, with or with out banging hardware, so to speak, BlitzBasic2 is relative system friendly, and some of the thing you learn using BlitzBasic2 can be used when you learn C. (BlitzBasic2 has nasty bugs).

AMOS is not system friendly, the command you learn, have nothing to do with AmigaOS, it does access the hardware at low level, so does work on upgraded hardware. AMOS has AMAL, AMAL is multithreading animations and movement of objects, AMAL is ascii, so easy to use for scripting.

C is forest, too many things to learn, C is fast, C is advanced, C takes longer to learn.

Anyway, there is XAMOS and AmiBlitz3, this languages might have made more sense.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-Dec-2015 at 09:26 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2015 at 09:34 PM.

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@cdimauro
Quote:

For a graphic artistic I think is similar: scratching the head working on a single pixel basis, with a very limited color palette, it's a too painful work.

Been there, done that, got a Powder T-Shirt ^^

Quote:

The same for a musician which has to compose music with only 4 8-bit channels, a very limited space for samples, and arranging the channels in order to "free" one for reproducing some sound effect for a while without compromising too much the soundtrack.

Well that is my specialty btw, and i like more to compose for a four voice 8-bit or at least 8-voices xm in milkytracker than use all the modern tools - also because cannot afford it - but is more challenging and rewarding to get a good result ;)

(actually Rowan uses three channel music, i know because they were asking for a musician and sent a test...)

Last edited by saimon69 on 14-Dec-2015 at 09:57 PM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 14-Dec-2015 at 09:56 PM.

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Actually, quite the contrary. Limited palette and low res screens are what a pixel artist thrives in. Exactly their element. A joy, not painful.
Ive recently become involved in some game development for tandy coco.... 4 colors (plus artifacts) at 128*192 (well technically 256*192, but pixels become 2*1 for multicolor screens).

Having a blast, great fun.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 15-Dec-2015 at 02:18 AM.

@fishy_fis: my graphic artists thinks a lot different.

You can read the interview to Giacinto Platania, which worked to Fightin' Spirit, and see yourself what he thinks about using the old tools and the old way to create graphic.

The interview is in Italian, but you can easily translate it in English.

@cdimauro

Yes, he changed medium to something not really pixel art style.
My suggestion that low res/low color is what pixel artists thrive on still holds true.
Visit any of the dozens of pixel art websites and you'll see this is true of nearly all pixel artists.
Graphic artists aren't the same thing.

@All

For direct programming of the Commodore Amiga custom chips, I nowadays use C.

The overhead of the C compiler is negligible, the only drawback is that I can' t control the executable size very well.

For critical special cases a mix of C + Assembly is always possible.

Check what is possible to achieve:
Menace remake with source written in C

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote: @cdimauro Yes, he changed medium to something not really pixel art style. My suggestion that low res/low color is what pixel artists thrive on still holds true. Visit any of the dozens of pixel art websites and you'll see this is true of nearly all pixel artists. Graphic artists aren't the same thing.

Giacinto does pixel art too, if we wants or if it's requested by customers.

He simply expanded his toolset.

@Massi

Quote:

Massi wrote: @All For direct programming of the Commodore Amiga custom chips, I nowadays use C. The overhead of the C compiler is negligible, the only drawback is that I can' t control the executable size very well. For critical special cases a mix of C + Assembly is always possible. Check what is possible to achieve: Menace remake with source written in C

It depends on the game.

For example, you cannot rewrite Fightin' Spirit in C. And the same would have happened for USA Racing, the other game which I was working on.

Both for a question of space and performance.

Anyhow, nice to see the improved animation, so good luck with future development.

Last edited by Overflow on 15-Dec-2015 at 05:41 PM.

@cdimauro

From space and performance perspectives Assembly beats C no doubts.

Anyway I experienced I can push C close to Assembly which is in many cases more than acceptable.
A mix of C (the game logic) + Assembly (the graphics engine) then can cover the majority of games.

Not to mention the benefits of C over Assembly in terms of productivity.

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@Massi: absolutely, but the problem is that with machines with limited resources, like an Amiga 500, it's already hard to squeeze the hardware using the assembly. C is not recommended.

@cdimauro

Yes people pretty disappointed when they showed OCS graphics on a Amiga500
Does it even run on Amiga 500, what was the memory requirements again

What it really comes down to is what you pack into your EXE file, you can make small C programs, but you will have to stay away from any c lib.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-Dec-2015 at 09:48 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Dec-2015 at 07:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Dec-2015 at 07:49 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga: well, at my time there were no exe files. I've written a custom trackloader to load the game code and data, packing 1029KB of space on each disk.

@cdimauro

Quite a commonplace.
While the C compiler tend to introduce a little overhead, it can however generate quite fast code.

Anyway it depends on what is to achieve.

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@cdimauro

Yes and then you where able to powerpack the exe file down to nothing
While the exe file got smaller, you needed the powerpack.library or what it was called.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Dec-2015 at 08:16 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga: exe? powerpacker.library? At the Amiga time we use only the trackdisk.device, just once, at the boot, and then we took full control of the machine, using custom track loaders and unpackers.

Unpacking is only use for decompressing the track data in the proper positions in memory. But the game didn't unpacked anything when it was running.

Hello Again!,

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Ok not want to extend more and quit your time. all the Best and Amiga4Ever

Please we need your support for makes this happens. Thanks to all sponsors here.

This Video its an a example of the new Amal Engine

https://youtu.be/fbiOsjqXfOE