@thellier

According to EU:s homepage,

Showing EU-28 trade 2008-2013:



Link

Last edited by marko on 24-Jun-2016 at 06:44 PM.

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@g01df1sh

my problem have been this if I tried to buy from ebay UK!. Then the buyers sent me some sort of nasty reply " your country is not part of the EU!".

So they would not sell me.

So who is laughing now! :)

@tangoone
: D late revenge

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According to EU:s homepage,

International trade EU-28, 2005–2015:



Source:
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Development_of_international_trade,_EU-28,_2005%E2%80%9315_(%C2%B9)_(billion_EUR)_YB16.png

Last edited by marko on 24-Jun-2016 at 07:24 PM.

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C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes
Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
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@marko
You are showing global trade not only the china-EU one we talked about

Despiste that your figure just show tha EU lost 100-200 billions per year
except the more recent years where the tendancy just have inverted : mainly due to petrol going low price... So cant be credited to EU economic strategy...
Also note that this recent small inversion dont compensate the previous loss...
Alain

Last edited by thellier on 24-Jun-2016 at 09:20 PM.

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Chris_Y wrote: Seriously though, economy collapsed overnight, weak pound, expensive petrol, talks of breaking up both the UK and the EU, we'll soon have a prime minister nobody wants, companies already talking of relocating.... I fail to see any positives. I was firmly "IN", but even I'm surprised at how quickly an "OUT" result has descended into chaos.

Hope to see you back in some kind of EU 2.0 in a few years.
If there is anything good in this Brextit it may be that EU must reform itself now. Go a few steps back and then restart in a new and better direction.

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@g01df1sh

This doesn't affect me (directly) one way or the other, but Texit might.

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So now the price of the X5000 wil rise even more

@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote: @Chris_Y Hope to see you back in some kind of EU 2.0 in a few years. If there is anything good in this Brextit it may be that EU must reform itself now. Go a few steps back and then restart in a new and better direction.

Reformed Europe? It is us citizens who must fight for it.

I do not expect anything good from actual "politicos" cast of privileged banks servants.

Shame that Britain could had helped us to reform EU but rather they preferred to fly away...

Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 08:59 AM.

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@ilbarbax

Quote:

ilbarbax wrote: So now the price of the X5000 wil rise even more

You guessed well... The only chance to avoid rising prices is an agreement between A-Eon and ACube that could produce X5000 in the continent upon A-Eon license, avoiding import taxes from GB.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Quote:

The only chance to avoid rising prices is an agreement between A-Eon and ACube that could produce X5000 in the continent upon A-Eon license, avoiding import taxes from GB.

You are spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. For your information, the duties and taxes for importing a computer from China to the European Union are exactly 0 (EUR. GBP, etc.).

The assumption that importing computers from England to the European Union would be taxed more highly in the future than importing computers from Asia is flat out implausible.

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote: @Raffaele Globalization has merely commoditized human life. And the value of that has and will continue to go down. A future where everything is produced by automation? Who will be able to pay for the products? And if you can't pay? What options will you have? Luckily, I am old and don't have to face a future where our dignity and rights will inevitably continue to erode. Today, in my country, corporations have MORE rights than people. Wait until they claim that they have developed machine sentience. A future where I must recognize a device as my equal? F*ck you very much. Personally, I foresee a continuing slow global collapse, and as I have a few acres to grow food on and I am not irretrievably tied to any of you or any technology, I am not panicked at this point. Good luck with your illusions optimists. I have about 20 credits of my College education based in Economics alone. And I can guarantee you that the majority of our current decisions are based on unproven theories that are being applied globally. And ALL previous economic theories have FAILED at some point.

You proposed a future of science fiction and called me illuded optmistic when I say that it is the people who makes laws, and has the power to reform and changes institutions?

Are you insane or are you trying kidding me?


You precognize a future where all goods produced by automation...

Maybe this is possible, then prices will drop near to zero and people will earn free goods and commodities granted by law and they will make money being employed in services, governance, repairing automated machines that are producing goods, science, humanistics and art...
This involves big changes then and reforming completely how we value and salary human jobs and how we intend free time, and not disvalue human presence.


Corporations have more rights than a single person?

Then we must change the laws in order to give corporations lesser rights. It is us the effort up in changing the world, none will change it if is defending privileges by castd. You can't have democracy without fighting for it in any moment democracy is in danger.
And perhaps corporations are subject to law, if we do not uphold the law and FORCE corporations OBEY these laws, then shame on us and we deserve a gloomy dark future.


Machine sentience?

This is way more science fiction than the distopian scenario you proposed...

Machines just execute programs, they can't develop intelligence. Searle test of chinese room proved without any doubt, scientificly that any hope of sustainers of strong artificial intelligence is vain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room


In the end if you have a land of yours and you prefer far better the life of a farmer then start being a farmer and good luck.
Greek Philosoper Epicurus said "lathe biosas" (live apart), then live apart from this crazy world and all its pain and sorrow.

But if you renounce the fight, then do not complain if in a far or recent future the world will knock at your farm door, with corporations obliging you use their OGM seeds or some robots claiming farm work is too hard and govern forces you employing robots doing the job for you.

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@ASiegel

What in the hell are you saying? NO TAXES from China? BWAHAHAHAH!

Actually as China is not EU country, when items enter in Italy I pay a tax of 4% for any electronics that enter the borders and have a price value more than 22 euro.

Calculating original price PLUS delivery fees PLUS 4% import tax, I must add 22% VAT to entire sum. In the end my country applies additional import of fixed price of 5,16 Euro for office and bureaucracy fees.

So then June 2015 I payed my Teclast X98 tablet 168 Euro including delivery from a store on Aliexpress site.

DHL Courier made it pass international douane/tool and Tax Office Douane Police applied on it 4% = 6,72 Euro.

Price is now 174,72.

As long VAT in Italy is 22% they applied this import to 174,72 for an amount of 38,43 Euro.

Price is now 213,15.

At this amount I must add fixed fee of 5,16 for the tax office applying just some stamps that object passed inspection.

Final price 218,31 Euro!!!

So in the end I payed 218.31 an object which originally costed 168 euro, being charged of 50.31 Euro of import taxes.

From the other hand I purchased last month on Ebay from Manchester (UK) an AMD ATI Radeon HD 6670 brand new (from a store that have brand new remaining of this discontinued graphic card) at a price of 79.76 Euro including delivery and I was charged of no additional import tax, neither VAT, as long as UK was still member of EU.

Now imagine what amount of money I have to pay for an english Amiga X 5000 that is priced around 1000 euro, now that Britain is out EU.

Fortunately process of Brexit has not legally started then if I could earn some money, I can still purchase a X 5000 free of import taxes... But within some months all will change.

Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 10:18 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 10:16 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 10:14 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 10:13 AM.

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@ilbarbax

Quote:

So now the price of the X5000 wil rise even more

The GDP will be moving up and down, self-regulating itself. The price might be bit higher tanks to import/export tax.

http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/saved_calculations/view_details/203980931/

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 10:18 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

And this is the very right moment for buying in Gb Pounds as long its exchange value is at its minimum and items are still not charged of EU import taxes...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Quote:

What in the hell are you saying? NO TAXES from China? BWAHAHAHAH!

As usual, you make completely unsubstantiated statements...

NutsAboutAmige provided a link where you can check actual duty and tax fees:
http://www.dutycalculator.com/

There are no duty fees or import taxes when an Italian orders a computing device (such as a tablet) from China.

You do have to pay local VAT but this is NOT an import tax nor a duty fee, as you claimed there would be.

Also, any additional administrative charges that Italy may add are not legally import taxes nor duty fees either...

@ASiegel

Hemm, I'm sure there is some wrong with that, but it might be that Norway is in Efta (EØS).

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@NutsAboutAmiga

On the website you referenced, you can in fact choose China and Italy as the country of origin and destination respectively. There are zero duty fees and import taxes on laptops, PCs or tablets bought in China and shipped to Italy (or any other EU member state).

(Local VAT is an entirely different matter. But, as long as the UK is still part of the EU, British resellers do in fact have to charge local Italian VATs on physical goods shipped to Italy as well if certain revenue thresholds are exceeded, i.e. only small companies are exempted from this. In this regard, buying a computer from England is no different to buying one from China. In both cases, you have to pay your local VAT rate.)

Last edited by ASiegel on 25-Jun-2016 at 11:22 AM.

@ASiegel

True

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I'm just a dumb yank watching from afar so please forgive and correct any mistakes I might make.

For decades I've resisted making Amiga purchases from the UK because of the unfavorable exchange rate between the $ and £. This is also true to a lesser degree for the euro. Many of my Amiga purchases over the years actually came from Canada, often from the used market. The US$ had a noticeable advantage to the CAN$, though they are closer to parity now.

Depending on how the markets go, I may actually be buying directly from the UK, and not just Amigas. How many other markets outside the EU might do the same? I've always wanted to visit the UK. Maybe that will be a possibility now too.

And directly to Brexit and where anyone might correct me.... I consider the exit vote won by a narrow margin. 70% clear choice... 60% tepid, 51.9% razor thin. The whole mess isn't done yet. Scotland, N. Ireland, even "buyer's remorse" for some yes voters. Also no one pushed the EU eject button on Thursday. Brit is still in for the moment. What surprises me is that instead of the EU saying..."Ok, UK we hear you're not exactly happy. Let's see if we can make any adjustments and keep deal going."

No, instead we get... fine UK, get out "as soon as possible". This doesn't sound like a group to "work with" or one I'd personally want to be part of either. But I don't know what all came before either.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/we-wont-let-our-europe-be-taken-away-says-germany-1466843806


@Raffaele,
You seem more upset that the UK gets to choose and Italy doesn't more than what UK's reasons are. And who knows, this may help change the EU for the better more than if UK had stayed.