@QuikSanz

1) How does that get your wall built again?

2) When stopped by the Coast Guard, refuges are brought here.
Or didn't you know that?

3) You third answer is ludicrous. Sure, more jobs would be great. But we are not going to control inflation with import controls or tariffs. That will increase costs.
Do you have any education?

4) That answer shows your side's prejudice.
Was Timothy Mcveigh a Muslim or a foreigner?
You want to watch specific groups?
Nice fascist idea.

5) Dump tried that tactic too. But we aren't talking about the Clinton's or their perfectly legal speaking fees.
We were discussing the ethical behavior of your candidate and his trustworthiness.
Thank God that most in business do not set the bottom bar by the low conduct of others in the business community.
Not everyone is a crook like Donald.

Could you consider keeping your wallet and going?
You're a danger to us all.

Quote:

QuikSanz wrote: @iggy 1) A small tariff to equalize the money for goods coming in would be easy. 2) A Wall stops the foot/drug traffic from land access. We have something called the Coast Guard for close sea traffic. Others will be stopped by electronic tracking of visas. Personally I would stop all new visas until the border is secure and e-verify is loaded with all current visas and being tracked. People who overstay shall be dealt with. 3) This too shall pass when the fed, which I'm sick up with, Changes some policies. The other thing is we need to return to the Bresaro program that lets in enough worker seasonally to take care of farm labor. With more citizens working GDP will grow out of inflation and actually pay down debt. 4) It will keep out further infiltration and with some changes we can watch the 2nd generation citizens that may want to convert to fundamentalism. 5) The Donald has done nothing that investment houses and entrepreneurs haven't had to deal with as said before. No competition to the Clinton Crime Family Fund. the government cheats all the people all the time. Business only lose only some of the time. Now as long as they stop whining, spending and leave my wallet alone I'll stay.

Last edited by iggy on 03-Jul-2016 at 01:03 AM.

@iggy,

Lol, sound like someone from San Fransisco.

1) It's law passed twice! Build it.

2) change procedure/Law.

3) Artificial barriers. Yes I am but not by our terrible public schools.

4) Timothy was a leftist where all violence comes from. I'm sure you'll love that.

5) Legal? Maybe. Ethical? Not!

And you sir, if you want socialism go to a country that has it and experiment there!

@QuikSanz

You sir, are a complete idiot.
So you think education is an artifical barrier.
You aren't aware that Mcveigh represented the radicalized right after Ruby Ridge.
You live in a country with Social Security, Medicare and other programs but you apparently aren't aware that those are socialist programs.
You're using Dump's own excuse for his bankruptcies as a means of attacking the Clintons.
And apparently we can add San Franciscans to the list of people you don't like.

Any further stupidity you would like to add?

@iggy,

Lol, social security, part of the new deal. It along with medicare are going insolvent due to Democrat and Republican career politicians. I'll pass on snobbery any day. And no, I don't do PC, was not taught it back in the day and I still don't want it. I call em as I see em cause I'm a realist.

@iggy

Please, choose words more carefully, even though they are well deserved.

@QuikSanz

Quote:

4) Timothy was a leftist where all violence comes from. I'm sure you'll love that.

When I speak with leftists, they say the very same about political right. Seems extremists have similar views about purity of their ideals and wickedness of their opponents.

Quote:

if you want socialism go to a country that has it and experiment there!

From your point of view, even most of Europe would look like socialist paradise. Even moderately wealthy country like mine has free healthcare based on health insurance for all and free tertiary education.

@Zylesea

Quote:

And leave out the god nonsense. It's no better than this pathetic "inshallah" of these few misguided Islamics. Religion is a private matter. Bringing it up causes trouble only. Just leave it out of politics or economics.

That's completely disregarding the fact that the UK's legal and political system are based on biblical norms. The Magna Carta was written up to protect both the church and regular workers from tyrannical Kings and Queen's and was inspired by the Bible. Atheistic/Catholic Europe doesn't seem to have the same respect for democracy that the UK does and are prepared to hand over sovereignty for a European economic dream that has never materialised.

I am far more likely to vote for a politician with a strong moral compass, who stand by their sometimes unpopular/political incorrect views like being pro-marriage (i.e. not of the opinion it can be redefined) or anti-abortion. In reality the only politicians that consistently show much regard for these views are the Christian ones because everyone else is greedily trying to stampede to the top and look after number one. Nicky Morgan we're looking at you!! If David Cameron took his duty to his people more seriously rather than worrying about his legacy we'd all be in better position right now. He'll be remembered as the Prime Minister who against his will let us leave the EU and the man that scored an own goal by redefining marriage against his own party's will!

Last edited by BigD on 03-Jul-2016 at 10:04 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Topic (Picking things from around and commenting)

"Right option is not to leave EU, but change it"

Otherwise exactly right, except, EU havent really changed. There have been several problems in last over a decade upon which there could have something done about, yet they havent. That is exactly one of the problems with Eu that they are not willing to change. Hope they will now learn the lesson and finally be willing to change.

"Market disaster - no sales to EU anymore - No deals with EU anymore - no more cheap workers... to UK"

Here is misunderstanding with many people. To not be part of EU, doesnt mean you still couldnt join in some of the deals, you are just not automatically included in them, and in some cases you might indeed might be excluded, but where it really matters, you usually can join as long as you are sensible country to deal with (like UK is). Take as example Switzerland, to my understanding they are part of quite many EU deals, including open borders between EU countries, yet they are not part of EU at all, and never have been.

Besides, while it is possible they will punish UK from leaving and not letting them join some mutual benefit things, then that is just one more reason to get out of EU, for if they really do so, then it just shows how childish EU leaders really are, and shows that if they are not able to put childish things behind when making big decisions, then they shouldnt be doing them at all.

What comes to cheap labor, there is nothing against UK deciding to still take cheap labor from other countries, difference now is that UK has full control over its foreign work policy. UK dont have to accept foreigners from here and there anymore, but they can choose which ones are allowed to come and which not. By other words - much better situation than before as long as UK uses it right.


"Example economic disasters". It will be easy to dig out bad economic examples, but you could also dig up positive economic examples, especially after couple of years. You cant simply take the bad things and point out everything is wrong, since situation is that the market landscape have changed which affects some things bad and some things good.

You could compare to if Communist country changes to democracy or otherway round. In both cases you could easily pick up bad things to show how bad things are, but that is not fair. You need to look both good and bad things, and compare them together and decide which is better since change is so big.

In computer version you could look at Amiga vs PC in 1992, which one is better, that would depend upon your need, both would have good and bad points, things you can and cant do.

"bad for economy not being part of EU"

Seems to me like Norway and Iceland both are doing pretty fine without being in EU showing that being part of EU is not requisite for doing well, but it is just one way to operate.

Last edited by Bugala on 03-Jul-2016 at 10:59 AM.

@Bugala

Quote:

You could compare to if Communist country changes to democracy or otherway round.

Well, in case of the Czech Republic/Slovakia, we had greater fall of industry production than even in Great Crisis of the 1930s. At least this contributed to improvement of our environment.


I feel you think UK gets better deals with EU outside EU... good luck!

@iggy



Quote:

So you think education is an artifical barrier.

sigh... depends on your definition of education tbh. are we limiting education to colleges?

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@terminills

No, I didn't go back to College before my mid-thirties.
And then it was to study things I wanted information about, not for the paper.

Before that, I worked and studied the Federal CFRs to get a Merchant Marine license.
Prior to that I'd self educated and had a good understanding of electronics and computer science.

Education can come in many forms.

And Pavlor is right, I lowered myself with the name calling (deserved or not).
Thanks for the call to reason buddy.
At least I know when we have differences of opinion we can still communicate.

This years theme seems to be irrational entrenchment.

Usually I pride myself in not following the mob mentality.
I briefly forgot that in the long run things tend to sort themselves out.
My bad


Jim

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote: @wolfe Quote: I don't think you get as rich as Trump without having a grasp of economics . . . He knows something of business and real estate, but that's not the same thing as knowledge of economics. Economics is understood by so few that it makes it almost impossible for good economic decisions to be made within the confines of a democratic system. The possibilities for demagoguery are enormous, and seldom resisted by politicians of any persuasion.

But he can hire the best to help make it happen. Also, on another note - one reason neither party truly likes him is he's a wild card. He can due like Reagan did, come out on your tv and ask which idea you like best. That can take the demagoguery levels down . . .

_________________
Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @QuikSanz Quote: Pure Democracy is mob rule. Vote to rob a store? Fine. Republic is the rule of law. So hold on there! So a political party promises a referendum whereby the majority view of the people will lead to the way forward on the EU. The Conservatives are voted in with that as part of their manifesto. Everyone knows what is at stake hence voter turnout was high. Then inexplicably the losers throw their teddies out of the pram and call for democracy to be suspended because they're worried about their shares, mortgages, pensions and the value of their houses. Some people seem to think referendums should be rejected out of hand because political overlords know best?! If that is your view I can see why the EU Commission with its unelected (by EU citizens) status and unaccountability would be considered ideal! Why bother with a Parliamentary Democracy when you can get a team of 'experts' together to dictate to a populace what they should do and what they should spend their money on

From http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/258994,New-EU-superstate-plan%E2%80%99-by-France-Germany-report

EU Commission's future could change with French-German take over.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-slovakia-idUSKCN0ZG25S
Slovakia says western members (I.e. Inner Six) can't dictate EU future.


@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @Hammer That's some good solid evidence of why Brexit will work out fine right there. Btw, I never noticed you're in Australia until now. As a Norwegian, I am really happy to see UK exiting EU. Now, if only Norway would cut ties with EEC as well, we could begin shutting them down for real EFTA is reduced to Norway and Iceland, with UK on our side we would be big on oil, gas, electricity, fish and technology. EU desperately needs us, and we're constantly working out deals to avoid them. Like exporting salmon to places like China. EU are also desperate to use Norwegian hydropower as buffer for their nuclear/coal/wind power, which is going to cost Norwegian consumers DEARLY in the near future. UK providing us with cheap baseline nuclear and excess wind power while we give back cheap peak power for when folks come home from work would work nicely for me. Buffering UK is a tad different in scale to buffering for all of EU... I'm not a big fan, as should be fairly obvious without needing to read between the lines

European Free Trade Association (EFTA) has Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland.

European Free Trade Association (EFTA) could end up with Switzerland (8.1 million population), Norway(5.1 million), UK(64.5 million), Iceland (332,529) and Liechtenstein (37,340).

EFTA was one time a rival European trade group outside of EEC.

The founding members of EFTA were Austria, Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. During the 1960s these countries were often referred to as the Outer Seven, as opposed to the Inner Six of the then-European Economic Community (EEC).


EFTA should have competed against EEC and there's a clear difference between EEC/EU and EFTA i.e. EEC/EU was a stealth political union by Inner Six.

Visegrád Group includes Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia.

Last edited by Hammer on 03-Jul-2016 at 02:48 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 03-Jul-2016 at 02:39 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 03-Jul-2016 at 02:36 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote: @wolfe All you have proven to me is that you are as deluded as most Trump followers. "Rigged voting machines"? Is that anything like what happen in Florida with the "hanging chads"? Honestly, even rigging the election districts isn't going to save the Republican party this year.

Anyone to stupid to make sure they don't have hanging chads may be too stupid to vote! If you can't follow directions or ask for help or if you can't read the signs, you're not living up to your civic responsibility.

Quote:

As to spending. The highest deficiet spender of all time was Ronald Reagan. The second highest was W. These are facts, not fantasies like what you have posted.

Interesting - $11.657 trillion of Obama's spending is attributed to W because of the economic crash. It helps make Obama's spending look better at $6.494 trillion. Bush spent $5.849 trillion in his 2 terms. Obama has spent $18 trillion since he took office!

Quote:

Ruling the country isn't a job for the uninformed, those that would use division, or change their opinions to suit their immediate circumstances.

A - Uninformed - We had Carter, and have Obama ! ! !
B - Division - That is party politics . . .
C - Flip-floping is what politicians do ! ! !

Quote:

You know he stands no real chance of winning.

You may be right according to the mainstream media and those 20-40 million non citizen's who will be voting.

Quote:

Americans may be frustrated, they may even be angry, but they aren't as stupid as many would believe.

They are if they vote for more years of Obamanomics! "Clinton"!
Quote:

BTW I am not a Democratic, I am even registered as a Republican, but there is no way I am voting for this clown. Funny, I doubt George Will is either. Or a lot of other conservative Republicans. And you have pretty much lost women, hispanics, blacks, muslims, etc. With an candidate that offends large swaths of the population, you don't stand much of a chance.

Obviously you have not been to or seen an actual Trump rally turnout. Women, hispanics, blacks, and orientals turn out in numbers. Although you won't hear that from the mainstream media. They put Trump down to make Killary look better. Smoke and mirrors.

To be clear, I'm Anti-Party! Parties are our problem, divide and conquer is what they do. Pitting American against American is wrong and shows they have no real ideas. They pool the people's power and do as they like.

Trump is not the solution but Clinton will destroy this country as we know it. I prefer freedom (not socialism/communism) in government. This election will come down to the lesser of 2 evils. Trump can be a wild card and put the people first and go against party wishes. Hillary will tow the party mantra. Reagan did well because he was a wild card in putting America first.

_________________
Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@wolfe

Quote:

and those 20-40 million non citizen's who will be voting.

How that is even possible in developed country?

@pavlor

Believe it or not it is possible.
I have to cede that one to the other side.
If you can get a drivers license you can register to vote.

And to the posters that think I support convention, and IN particular that I might think highly of Ronald Reagan, I don't.

I would love to see a real independant stand a chance of election.

But voting for an untrustworthy rich guy is not an anti-establishment vote.

It just another blowhard attempt by the fringe to coopt the Republican party.
Remember, I come from the State that tried to field Christine Odonnell in the last election.
This is not even the party of Reagan, and I wasn't fond of where Reagan took us (SINCE he was the highest deficit spender of all time).

We need politicians that at least sound sane.
Not a return to voodoo politics.

Last edited by iggy on 04-Jul-2016 at 01:07 AM.

@QuikSanz

Quote:

Socialism fails every-time it's tried. Just ask anyone from Venezuela.

The parties may call themselves socialist but when there is massive corruption the country is not socialist.

The Democratic Republic of Congo is hardly democratic but you wouldn't hold it up as an example and say that democracy always fails.

All political systems are susceptible to the basic flaws of humankind.

@Rob,

Where the law is ignored. Corruption is rampant.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @QuikSanz Glad I don´t have to cast vote in your elections. However, Mr. Trump looks really weird from european perspective... Quote: ... Thanks.

You forgot in Europe and precisely in Italy we predates USA as we already had Berlusconi...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @BigD Quote: . It would be completely disingenuous to delay exiting the EU until after another general election! It is not that easy. You need to re-negotiate treaties with EU (and treaties, where EU is signatory, but UK not). This will take time, unless you want to cut all links to european market... I don´t get, why PM didn´t demand fresh elections as soon as possible to get clear mandate for its successor in negotiations. Quote: The real riots will start if the British political elite attempt to keep us in the EU despite a Brexit vote. Well, cca 50 % wants to be IN, cca 50 % out.

Funny that vaste part of politicians in UK both labour and tories want to solve political bonds and keep best part of trade pacts with EU.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @pavlor No matter how some of them try to dress it up, they are protesting against the result of a democratic process. They want to reverse the vote one way or another if they can. How is that democratic? My view of a democracy is a country or a state where the politicians serve the people and not sell them out to the multinationals for some personal gain or vanity.

Me too... Now we are two. Let's find more and form an international trasversal party of people that think like us

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).