@g01df1sh

Why should He even care? How do you know we are the Good and they are the Evil? I´m sure they see themselves as the Good and us as the Evil. What of these Evils should the God wipe out, us or them?

Isn´t better to leave decision to humans - let them create heaven, or hell? ISIS is not product of Devil or God designs, it is outgrow of human nature and it is up to us - humans - to find solution.

@QuikSanz

Quote:

the first of it's kind.

Well no, the first written language we know of is Sumerian Language, 2600 years before Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language

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Second, the new testament is loosely history mixed with philosophy and the philosophy is very sound if you replace prayer with meditation.

Civilization existed before and after Christianity, it's not like this philosophy is better or worse then let's say Buddhism, or Hinduism.

Christianity is what we inherited from our families or culture and the school system; it is not something you are born with.

The way people learn anything in life is that they need to behave to be accepted: if your normal person that is. There are lots studies on empathy when at what age a child can do that, and so on.

The problem with religion is that when you think, some not acting like you think they should, you apply your rules to some else, you force this rules on to someone, this how religion oppresses people in different ways, and this way we who are atheist, have no love for religion.

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@NutsAboutAmiga,

Umm, no. The old testament was written long before Jesus. remember Noah?

@BigD

Quote:

Those assumptions came first and the way of explaining away God came afterwards. I guess it allows atheists to sleep better at night knowing that they don't have to thank God for the order and beauty that scientists see in the universe they can just put it down to 'dog eat dog' , chance and chaos! What 'faith' it must take to believe the equivalent of a Rolex watch (i.e. humanity) can be created from random chaotic events initially involving simple proteins and pond water! That requires more faith than a faith in Jesus Christ being resurrected from the dead IMHO.

There are big differences between shaping "man" or a "Rolex" by radom .

A Rolex is rather coarse object cansisting of metal (with many metal bindings) and a fews other structures embedded. Rather no chemistry, but physical structures.
Difficult to get a certain elementary mixture and physical structure of about 10°24 atoms entirely by chance.
Humans in contrast are a result of biochemistry. A key role here plays the biochemistry of proteins and ribonucleic-acids. Leaving out the protein features lets focus on DNA. Man was not invented by chance in one trial (out of many), but is the result of heritage and kind of trial and error (aka evolution) . About quite many years ago it started with the first bio macro molecules which were indeed a result of chance (but due to the biochemistrty of proteins, lipids and nucleic acids not that much chance is needed). From these macro molecules teh first cells developed. These first cells were successful. A key role is then self recreation - these cells did that. They got modified by mutations (chance) and some mutations lead to more successful cells etc. Man of today is the result of one heritage line of millions of years of evolution. But there is no master plan and no god involved.
God/religion is a helping construct of mind to explain non understood things. Time to overcome this.

But the "ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος" is indeed one of the few interesting philosophical things in the bible (Yeah I am old fashined and learned greek and latin and hnece had the chance to read this in original). Thing is the meaning of Λόγος is not just "word", it's a way more complex. As a neuroscientist I appreciate the importance of Λόγος (i.e. information) - because thats basicaly all we are.

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@QuikSanz

Yes...

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2016/02/when-was-each-book-of-the-bible-written/

Sumerian Language, 2600 BC.
The first text in the bible 1445-1405 BC

So it's not the first text ever written, Samarian Lounge predates the bible with 1155 years, +/- a few years.

You better find some dynamite and help IS blow up some old buildings, erase history.

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@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: Why should He even care? How do you know we are the Good and they are the Evil? I´m sure they see themselves as the Good and us as the Evil. What of these Evils should the God wipe out, us or them? Isn´t better to leave decision to humans - let them create heaven, or hell? ISIS is not product of Devil or God designs, it is outgrow of human nature and it is up to us - humans - to find solution.

Precisely.

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@NutsAboutAmiga,

As far as we know it could have been written in Sumerian first and translated later but, since little has been found from that era we shall never know.

@QuikSanz

Quote:

the philosophy is very sound if you replace prayer with meditation.

If you mean meditating in a quiet space contemplating the verses of the Bible that you've just read then fine. If you mean meditation in the 'eastern' sense as in emptying your mind of everything then I completely diagree.

The mind should be trained to be full of God's word. No human mind is an empty vessel. If you attempt to empty it of useful thoughts then it will be filled with something else probably unhelpful eastern religious stuff. It is also more likely to be susceptible to the evil spirits Christians are meant to be arming themselves against by meditating on the Bible!

Last edited by BigD on 01-Jul-2017 at 12:18 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga,

"The Bible is a collection of writings, and the earliest ones were set down nearly 3500 years ago. "

Source: " https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-faqs/when-was-the-bible-written/ "

The first part was written from history handed down through the generations long before then.
It is a "compilation" so to speak from a time before there was written word.

@ BigD, Yes should have said "contemplation".

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Man of today is the result of one heritage line of millions of years of evolution. But there is no master plan and no god involved.

Your OPINION but little else. The human body and brain in particular is far more complex than a Rolex watch and it is the DESIGN component that should be the focus of the comparison not the substance each is made from! Yes one is CREATED via material science and craftwork by a human and the other through biochemical know how. However, the human also requires the spark of life giving power (never mind the insertion of an eternal soul) by God in the CREATION process, one that we can't replicate other than harvesting egss and sperm. So yes I agree there's a difference in the matter but BOTH require a creator.

I think you assume I haven't studied biology and geology when I have and the latter to MSc level. So thanks for explaining but I simply think you have far more faith than I do if you think chaos and mutation creates anything but abnormality and premature death when observed via the scientific method rather than Darwinian 'pseudo science'! There's nothing wrong with the assumption that people will have darker skin in sunnier climates due to natural selection. It is another thing entirely to suggest that black Africans will someday become a different species of human for example!

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@BigD

Quote:

...likely to be susceptible to the evil spirits...

More evil than the thoughts of other people?
I've never experienced any 'spirits' of that kind.

As to the previous mention of Buddhism, I find a lot of interesting material there.
Its possible to be a very Zen Christian, through exactly the thing you disavow, emptying your mind and focusing on being in the moment.

@BigD

Of course the brain is far more complex than a rolex (I actually know a bit about the brain), but you brought up that idiotic rolex thing. The key however, is self organization and patterns. There is no such thing as a soul or life givig power needed.
I have done gene modifying and watched the results, I have observed and modified information in single neurons of intact brains (no slices, but whole animals). It's all biochemistry and electro chemistry.
And evolution is proven to happen. You are free not to believe the course of evolution over the millions of years (albeit there is no evidence for doubting) , but evolution does happen continuously and there are measureable results in way briefier times. And this hort time evolution was actually proven.

Do you have any valid evidence for a god creation? Note: the bible is and contains no evidences.

Last edited by Zylesea on 01-Jul-2017 at 03:09 AM.

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Zylesea, given your direct expirience on the topic of evolution, its a redundant video, but the debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham is pretty intresting;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

@Overflow

Thanks for that link.

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@iggy

The brain cells needs stimulation, this how you maintain your memory and intellect, emptying your mind not thinking about anything; that should be damaging to your brain. Lack of sleep and you brain eats itself, don't try replace sleep with mediation.

If you cannot sleep you can mediate.
(Any rest is better then no rest)

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@QuikSanz

Yes we are now in 2017 AD, Latin phrase Anno Domini, which means “in the year of our Lord.”

2017-3500 = -1483. That is 1483 BC (Before Christ)

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@Zylesea

Quote:

And evolution is proven to happen.

No it isn't it is 'faith' position and a belief system to enable secular scientists to attempt to explain away the need for God with bad science.

Quote:

Do you have any valid evidence for a god creation? Note: the bible is and contains no evidences.

The Bible (sorry but it checks out as historical 'evidence' and is far more quoted and influential on human history than anything written by Darwin) and of course creation itself as it's blatantly the work of a creator rather than the result of trial and error (that should be a given to anyone never mind a 'technically minded' individual like yourself).

Reconsider your position or remain blinded to the fact that order, structure and beauty are not the product of and have never come from chaos and chance alone. Maybe you got your job as a genetic technician by following the teachings of The Dice Man but I doubt it just as I refute evolution!

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@BigD

How can we prove its the work of the creator?

Im all for God and all that jazz if it can be proven, but until I see concrete evidence I remain sceptical.
Words in a book is worthless. Its written by man, and looking around us, man cant be trusted.

Can you point to a spesific proof beyond the book itself?

@Overflow

Quote:

Can you point to a spesific proof beyond the book itself?

The fact it exist as one complete revelation of God despite the heresies and even the Roman Catholic Church trying to add and corrupt the book for their own ends. In their case they tried to add the Apocrypha and also held up Mary the mother of Jesus as a figurehead of their religion pretty much on par with Jesus (blasphemy and it was/is inaccurate to raise her up as an eternal virgin as she had other children besides the virgin birth of Jesus)! These and other books that were not directly inspired by God were refuted consistantly by Christians and the 'canon' books were locked in place officially in AD 367. Again it is a miracle that huge corrupt organisations like the Roman Catholic Church were not able to permanently corrupt the scriptures despite their power and influence.

From Answers in Genesis:

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By A.D. 240, Origen from Alexandria was using all our 27 books as “Scripture,” and no others, and referred to them as the “New Testament.”13 He believed them to be “inspired by the Spirit.”14 But it was not until A.D. 367 that Athanasius, also from Alexandria, provided us with an actual list of New Testament books identical with ours.15

However, long before we have that list, the evidence shows that the 27 books, and only those, were widely accepted as Scripture.

The Bible claims that creation should be enough for humans to know in their hearts that there must be a creator;

Roman 1:18-19

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18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

Therefore it's already clear that God made the 'truth' (about creation) plain to see. There's no excuse not to come to the conclusion that God created the universe and not everyone will be able to "do a doubting Thomas" and actually put their hands on Jesus' wounds to get absolute proof of specific Biblical miracles such as the resurrection I'm afraid! The fact the Bible is still surviving in one piece despite 2,000 years of turmoil, plus that Jesus' resurrection checks out historically, plus evidence in creation, plus the personal revelations of every born again Christian I've ever met adds up to ....

... enough evidence for me and considered by God to be enough for everyone to believe and yet many 'surpress' the truth.

Last edited by BigD on 01-Jul-2017 at 03:30 PM.
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