@ajk

Im a lawyer, and so is my wife

Seriously though any kind of litigation over API emulation would be long, messy and with an uncertain outcome - just IMHO.

I only know of two companies that have successfully silenced those copying their application programming interfaces and those were both settled out of court by large players against minnows.

Dave.

@ajk

Quote:

ajk wrote: @Rogue It just doesn't seem to obviously break any laws, if you can think of something that would indicate otherwise, please do share

Quote:

DaveP wrote: I wonder if this is a result of the unfortunate leak of the debug kernal in May? It was only a matter of time.

If (and that's a very important "if" there) information from OS4 sources was used then it's illegal - WINE's produced in an entirely clean-room environment so that's how they can avoid litigation. Mind you, proving it one way or another could still be a messy business that should be avoided if at all possible...

I don't see this being a problem - even if it could run most OS4 applications, why would people by a Pegasos when an A1 could do the same (yes, I realise there could be complaints about the price, but I cannot see the demand for Pegasoses increasing much if MOS is a dead-end and future developments rely on emulating another OS). And if many people are to believed, why'd they want OS4 anyway if its so bad

Going slightly off-topic, but IMHO if MOS definitely is discontinued then the best thing that Hyperion could do would be to release OS4 for the Pegasos I - those people wouldn't buy an A1 ATM and would eventually upgrade to a later A1 model (also, it would reduce the need for an "emulated" system like this). Porting OS4 to the Pegasos II could have problems though - Genesi can say that they're continuing to support Amiga-like solutions, and sell Peg II's at the expense of A1's.

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@alx

Quote:

alx wrote: Going slightly off-topic, but IMHO if MOS definitely is discontinued then the best thing that Hyperion could do would be to release OS4 for the Pegasos I - those people wouldn't buy an A1 ATM and would eventually upgrade to a later A1 model (also, it would reduce the need for an "emulated" system like this). Porting OS4 to the Pegasos II could have problems though - Genesi can say that they're continuing to support Amiga-like solutions, and sell Peg II's at the expense of A1's.

I doubt that MOS will be completely discontinued. Even if Genesi were to drop it tomorrow, I don't doubt that the authors would do what they could to keep it alive.

The biggest problem with this porting effort would be would it make sense for Hyperion? How many Pegasos users out of the 1000 or so that exist would actually want to run it, and out of those remaining how many would actually PAY for it?

I think that a Pegasos version of AOS would be a bad thing overall (and it pains me to say that). We should be concentrating on our own lawn at this crucial point, not looking over the fence.

@EntilZha

and by the time it is of of any use there be no peg users left
prob all be using the A1 anyway

@Ferry

Quote:

........ (l just can't believe the majority of them are pirates, I want to think that they are just like you and me, normal and decent users),....

yes, I know several MOS users and they are very nice people. There's no reason to believe that most Amiga users are anything but OK.
(best to ignore the few nuts in the bag).

And, as others have stated, the best way to go is to make OS4 more and more useful and functional. It can only be a good thing for Everyone!

Last edited by cecilia on 23-Nov-2004 at 08:48 PM.

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@xeron

Note, adding Odin enables OS/2 Warp to run Win32....

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@Mr.Return

Do not underestimate Microsoft e.g. they have noticed AmigaDE and PearPC.

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@Uncharted
Quote:

The biggest problem with this porting effort would be would it make sense for Hyperion? How many Pegasos users out of the 1000 or so that exist would actually want to run it, and out of those remaining how many would actually PAY for it?

Even if not one existing Peg user bought a copy of OS4/Pegasos it would still give Hyperion and the pro-OS4 community access to something very valuable -- a stable, well-specified desktop hardware platform.

The MicroA1 is a nice bit of kit, but there are lots of uses for which it just isn't suitable. The Peg2 could fill those gaps very nicely indeed.

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@DrBombcrater

I agree.. the pegasos2 motherboard seems better..

@ajk

Why do the open source patent insurance exist? (A rhetorical question)

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@ajk

Quote:

ajk wrote: @Rogue That is why I said "as far as I know", even though you left it out of the quote. It just doesn't seem to obviously break any laws, if you can think of something that would indicate otherwise, please do share

Microsoft is silently patenting its technology in every nation. One could guess its next move and implications. The war is not over.

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@DrBombcrater

People?s resistance to Pegy II HW may not be the real issue i.e. the issue seems to be centred against the individuals who runs Genesi.

I don?t quite see the same hatred or resistance when one mentions other PPC HW (non-Genesi) e.g. Momentum 970 or CK8-04(nForce4)+PPC970+IBM925 based solution.

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Nov-2004 at 09:26 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Nov-2004 at 05:43 AM.

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Why are we worried about this??
Get a grip!!!!
When OS4, and boxed Amiga hardware are released MOS and Pegs will be left in our wake.
The MOS userbase will be as much of a blip as we are to the winblows platform.

KMOS is probably smart enough to not let OS4 to be ported because you know BB is going to package Pegs as Amigas and then turn around do something dispicable, to tarnish the Amiga's reputation, perhaps even out of spite.

"No OS4 for you!!!!"

Ok. Scampering back to my happy place now.

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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
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@BigBentheAussie

I'm not a fan of mr. Buck but come on! Amiga's so-called reputation (I must confess I'm not sure what do you mean by it?) has only gone worse since 1994.

What's left is a bitter com....eh camps who fight for what's left from all this.

As for the motive of the author of this emulator, he posted on Ann.lu: "just for fun".

Last edited by Mr_Capehill on 24-Nov-2004 at 06:50 AM.

@Mr.Return

"All that could be achieved by emulating OS 4 on MOS would be cannibalizing the OS 4 sales and therefore stopping the development. Great, really."

I slightly disagree.

Surely if AOS4 exist for Pegasos, AOS4 API emulation could eat the market of AOS4.

Other than that I do not see AOS4 API emulator for MOS a bad thing. Let's relax and live with it, thinking positive.

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
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@Nibunnoichi

"I'm not so sure about it... i believe that the vast majority of emulators' users (regardless the platform to be emulated) happily survive with illegal roms/OSes, so it wouldn't be such a great idea for Amiga/Hyperion IMHO."

No one is pirating roms or AOS4 when doing AOS4 API compatibility for MOS.

This AOS4 API emulator/wrapper/compatibility does not allow running of AOS4.

"Uhm... re-reading my own post: on the author's site i cannot find much infos... is it going to be an API a-la WINE or a sort of "framework" to install the real OS4 on top of?"

I've understood it so (from Finnish forums) that it only emulates AOS4 API to enable running some AOS4 native apps. Like ABOX does for AOS3.x apps.

"It would change slightly, the second option would be the holy grail of the piracy, while the first not but it'd still mean less sales for Amiga/Hyperion/Eyetech."

IMO, Currently no Pegasos user would buy A1+AOS4 just to run ??? Audio Evolution?
So, Im not convinced that the emulator is all bad.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@EntilZha

>>Getting AOS4 API compatile apps to run on as many devices as possible is good
>> for AOS4 application developers, more potential market, right?
>Great. Have you ever thought about the system vendor ?

>>And it makes the AOS4 API a more strong platform, right?
>Yes, but by canibalizing the effort of the actual vendor.
>I'm sorry if I can't share your enthusiasm.

Ok.

In therory it could reduce AOS4+A1 sales.
In therory it grows AOS4 API platform / market for AOS4 app developers.

In real life the effect to both is minimal.

But if it's not 100% GOOD, it's not 100% EVIL/bad either.

I say it's half good and half bad. Ok?

Definitely it's something that is unnecessary but inevitable.

Official "Amiga" way of running AOS4 apps on MOS/Peg would generate revenue to Hyperion&KMOS at least.

Last edited by KimmoK on 24-Nov-2004 at 07:27 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

What I see in this thread is a lot of "blah-blah". Let's wait to see what comes out of it.

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@KimmoK

> Surely if AOS4 exist for Pegasos, AOS4 API emulation could eat the market of AOS4.

> Other than that I do not see AOS4 API emulator for MOS a bad thing. Let's relax and live
> with it, thinking positive.

There's no need for OS 4 on Pewg to make a working OS 4 emulation cannibalize the OS 4 sales. Actually it's of course no problem, but what if he manages to make most applications run one day ? What if he even manages to make some system libraries work ? Then people have the choice of either buyin an A1 having OS 4 + OS 4 apps or buying a Peg for less money and having MOS but MOS + OS 4 apps.
This *will* cannibalize OS 4 sales.

> Official "Amiga" way of running AOS4 apps on MOS/Peg would generate revenue to
> Hyperion&KMOS at least.

Of course. It would be a bit more difficult since the Peg version would have to be protected by a parallel or USB dongle, but it would surely generate some sales. But you know: Hyperion cannot make an OS 4 version unless someone buys an A1-licence for the Peg.
Which is, IMO, some kind of contradiction: On the one hand an A1-licence includes the obligation to bundle every board with OS 4. On the other hand sales would be generated by existing Peg-users which would impose the need of a standalone Peg-version of the OS. But then one could also release that without an A1 licence like the classic version will be. Unless Amiga Inc.'s licence terms exclude any possibilty of standalone versions, of course.
Politics, as usual ...

Last edited by Mr.Return on 24-Nov-2004 at 08:15 AM.

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@elwood

Best post in this thread.