Poster | Thread |
BinoX
| |
OpenGL support? Posted on 30-Mar-2015 14:35:37
| | [ #1 ] |
|
|
|
Cult Member |
Joined: 2-Nov-2005 Posts: 711
From: Cornwall, UK | | |
|
| Hi there,
It's been a while since I've done any AmigaOS development (not since 4.0) and I was wondering if there was OpenGL support in the OS/SDK yet?
If not, is Warp3D the way to go for 3D graphics or something else?
Thanks in advance :) _________________ Back to action! |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
kas1e
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 30-Mar-2015 14:42:07
| | [ #2 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Jan-2004 Posts: 3549
From: Russia | | |
|
| @BinoX
MiniGL (as old opengl specification), and warp3d as old warp3d. I.e. all the same as was 5 or 10 years ago. If it about os4 , then all in SDK as well (and if i remember right was in sine 4.0 (not sure, but since 4.1 for sure) ) _________________ Join us to improve dopus5! zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 30-Mar-2015 14:43:46
| | [ #3 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12819
From: Norway | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hypex
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 30-Mar-2015 16:38:34
| | [ #4 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11220
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
|
| @NutsAboutAmiga
AFAIK 2d compositing works also on pre-HD cards as well. Like my 9200SE.
That's another way to do 3d. Perhaps a bit more math involved but texture mapping can be done. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Jupp3
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 30-Mar-2015 22:03:40
| | [ #5 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 22-Feb-2007 Posts: 1225
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @BinoX
Quote:
if there was OpenGL support in the OS/SDK yet? |
As said, MiniGL is a partial implementation of OpenGL, done on top of Warp3D already long before OS4.
As for OpenGL, that's pretty much OpenGL 1.x, meaning: -Immediate mode (which should always be avoided), display lists (almost as bad) and vertex arrays. -No shaders, vbo, fbo etc. -No various random things defined in the spec, that some random programs might use.
(Disclaimer, never used MiniGL, just mentioning what I think are missing)
Quite a bit better on MorphOS, but only AROS has more modern OpenGL with shaders etc.
Quote:
If not, is Warp3D the way to go for 3D graphics or something else? |
Hyperion has officially stated, that Warp3D will remain only for backwards compatibility, so it won't be developed further. OpenGL is the way to go.
Of course what you should first ask yourself: Would you want whatever you write to be (potentially) multiplatform? If the answer is yes, don't even consider anything else than OpenGL (although a portable software 3D renderer would do aswell, I guess...)Last edited by Jupp3 on 30-Mar-2015 at 10:34 PM.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
BSzili
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 6:51:13
| | [ #6 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Jupp3
I wouldn't worry about Warp3D "going away". You can always fall back on Wazp3D, which a lot of people already do with Radeon HD cards. _________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
salass00
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 7:08:42
| | [ #7 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 31-Oct-2003 Posts: 2707
From: Finland | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
KimmoK
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 10:10:56
| | [ #8 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
|
| @BinoX
Perhaps you should consider programming portable AROS version with modernish OpenGL, if MiniGL is not enough.
btw. does 68k AROS have that modernish OpenGL?
(then it could be used for R&D via UAE on AOS4, perhps...)
Also a developer should ask the latest info from aos4 OpenGL development people. Perhaps there is a useable developer version of OpenGL2.0 for AOS4.1+ already... _________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
wawa
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 11:54:29
| | [ #9 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @KimmoK Quote:
btw. does 68k AROS have that modernish OpenGL? |
it does, but only in software at this time. it doesnt work absolutely correctly though, and due to its very high demands: 256mb ram and slow execution (it has a lot of features that take hell of time if not done in hardware i guess) it isnt practically usable like that. not even under uae. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Jupp3
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 13:08:11
| | [ #10 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 22-Feb-2007 Posts: 1225
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @BSzili
Quote:
I wouldn't worry about Warp3D "going away". You can always fall back on Wazp3D, which a lot of people already do with Radeon HD cards. |
Yes, it will probably be there always (it was already kind of deprecated on MorphOS on newer graphics cards, but already supported somehow with 3rd party library).
If you, however, expect it to be developed further and getting some modern-ish features, that was originally planned by Hyperion (Warp3D Nova, wasn't it?), but that plan has, afaik, been buried, and OpenGL is the "official" 3D API of OS4. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
BSzili
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 13:28:44
| | [ #11 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Jupp3
I don't think anyone is expecting the Warp3D API to evolve, but MiniGL is much slower than using Warp3D directly, so people who need the performance will go for the latter. See the Cherry Darling games VoxelNoid and VoxelBird. _________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Rob
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 13:53:33
| | [ #12 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6351
From: S.Wales | | |
|
| @Jupp3
Quote:
Hyperion has officially stated, that Warp3D will remain only for backwards compatibility, so it won't be developed further. OpenGL is the way to go. |
A-EON own Warp3D now. When I spoke to Matt in January he told me that he would like to see more features added to Warp3D. Nothing official of course, so we may not see any new feature but it's certainly not cut and dry anymore. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Jupp3
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 21:05:59
| | [ #13 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 22-Feb-2007 Posts: 1225
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @BSzili
Quote:
I don't think anyone is expecting the Warp3D API to evolve, but MiniGL is much slower than using Warp3D directly |
Have you already given up on waiting for the Gallium-based OpenGL implementation to materialize for OS4 aswell?
Can't blame you, it's been "almost ready" for years... |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
BSzili
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 31-Mar-2015 21:46:53
| | [ #14 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Jupp3
I'm not holding my breath. I'm not taking a jab at anyone, I'm just pragmatic: I use whatever I have at my disposal. _________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Jupp3
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 1-Apr-2015 13:25:50
| | [ #15 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 22-Feb-2007 Posts: 1225
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @BSzili
Quote:
I use whatever I have at my disposal. |
I understand your point.
But personally, I wouldn't (temporarily) downgrade my entire codebase to worse 3D api with very limited support, just because "The proper 3D drivers aren't ready yet for one platform"... |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
amigakit
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 1-Apr-2015 14:35:23
| | [ #16 ] |
|
|
|
Amiga Kit |
Joined: 28-Jun-2004 Posts: 2520
From: www.amigakit.com | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hans
| |
Re: OpenGL support? Posted on 2-Apr-2015 23:39:17
| | [ #17 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5067
From: New Zealand | | |
|
| @Jupp3
Quote:
Jupp3 wrote: @BSzili
Quote:
I use whatever I have at my disposal. |
I understand your point.
But personally, I wouldn't (temporarily) downgrade my entire codebase to worse 3D api with very limited support, just because "The proper 3D drivers aren't ready yet for one platform"... |
While I've put a lot of work into improving MiniGL over the years, I do like it when developers choose to use Warp3D directly.
Sure, it's a clunky old API that's very out-of-date, but it is disctinctly Amiga. Plus, those who use it properly can do some impressive stuff. They can get better performance when they strip away MiniGL's overhead. CherryDarling's games are an example of this. IIRC, crisot's Universe 3 demo runs in full 1920x1080 HD on my A1-X1000 with a Radeon HD 7770 card, with only about 10-15% CPU usage. Clearly that demo has plenty of spare processing power (on my machine) for extras.
That said, if someone wants their code to be easily ported to other OSes, then OpenGL is the way to go.
Hans
_________________ http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|