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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
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Hypex 
Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 16-Apr-2017 5:15:10
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8729
From: Greensborough, Australia

Hi guys.

So last night I went to load YAM as usual. It retrieved my emails okay. But then this error came up on Workbench from SFS itself about some invalid key. And it recommended to reboot. Should have noted down the error but I did reboot.

So I start YAM again and as it is validating drawers it gets stuck. The HD light is off. And my CPU meter is up to 100%.

I check debug buffer and there is no evidence of read errors. I check SMART status and there are no immediate problems with the drive reporting as healthily.

So I suspect that my SFS volume has become corrupted when YAM was writing. I also tried to copy out the YAM data with DirOpus but it too locked up.

I ran ParitionWizard over it (from 4.1 Update 6) with Check and it detected errors. Since it has basic SFS support it can not repair it. For some reason I pressed the Optimise button after. Cleaned my teeth and came back. Did another check and some errors had been removed. Reduced form 8 to 2 IIRC.

I'd like to try and fix it by backing up the problem drawer, deleting it then copying back. But without a full backup that's a big risk. Problem is I need to find 2GB spare to copy it to or use external drive. Or DVD. But even 2GB can take ages to backup and copy back. If you have the space. I seem to always be filling space instead.

It kinda annoys me that the only real solution is to backup, format then copy back since this operation is redundant by putting back data that is already there. What we need is a way to store the file and directory database, mark where each file is, then simply restore or recreate the filesystem using the file data already present.

There is SFSDoctor but I don't have MorphOS running on my A1. So is there any hope of repair? Or just do a BA/F/CP and get on with it?

It's SFS 1.290. I don't know if it is worth it testing later SFS versions. They might not be trust worthy.

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Severin 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 16-Apr-2017 19:05:47
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2707
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Hypex

Is it an SFS/0 or SFS/2 partition? if it's SFS/0 then you can use the original tools from the 68k archive on aminet to track down and hopefully fix the problem.

If it's SFS/2 you're only choice is copy & restore.

A tip for the copy bit... Use AmiDVD and create an image file of the partition, preferably to a hard drive file, if not a file on a USB drive. then when you have formatted the partition mount the image and copy.

Amidvd will backup the gazillion emails in yam far faster than even just a simple copy command because it does not need to check for existing copies is the destination.

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sundown 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 16-Apr-2017 21:21:31
#3 ]
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Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5098
From: Right here...

@Hypex

Be interesting to know what version of SFS you're using.

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broadblues 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 16-Apr-2017 21:50:39
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4132
From: Portsmouth England

@Hypex

Your volume is probably corrupt. Back up as much data as you can retrive and reformat.

If you do a copy CLONE ALL in each diretction, you might get as lucky as I did when doing the same some time back (though with JXFS partition which I switched to SFS2) and lose minimal data (just one or two emails in my case IIRC) with minimal distribance to your file structure. If you don;t enough space on another partition to do that, things could get more ugly.


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Hypex 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 1:51:24
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8729
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Severin

It's just SFS/0. 2GB partition. I had considered using the 68K tools but didn't trust older 68K tools on a newer PPC filesystem. Unless they match the age and are based on the same structures.

Thanks for the tip. Good idea using AmiDVD to do that. I've always used it to backup onto DVD but if USB2 is faster I agree writing to that would be better. Even MakeCD can create a 650MB image to a RAM disk in two minutes. The only problem I see is reading the files through SFS. Since reading through DOS always ends up in a busy loop.

Last edited by Hypex on 17-Apr-2017 at 02:28 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 2:24:54
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8729
From: Greensborough, Australia

@sundown

Yeah just SFS 1.290 in a 32-bit SFS/0 2GB sized volume. Nothing fancy. I may try later version of SFS to see if it's any better. Bun in the end it will need to be re-factored.

Last edited by Hypex on 17-Apr-2017 at 02:29 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 2:38:37
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8729
From: Greensborough, Australia

@broadblues

What I want to try first is using the Wizard to back it up since it does have a salvage mode. That should work at the device level and override SFS with own routines to read the filesystem. Hopefully that can get it all out.

If it also gets stuck busy looping, like a normal copy does, then I will need to locate the corrupt file or drawer and isolate it away. Likely by striking it off a copy list or using pattern matching. Easiest way to find it I think would be to list newest modified files and it should show up.

Would like to clean up and delete things I stop using but at this point that is risky. Will report back how I go.

Last edited by Hypex on 17-Apr-2017 at 02:40 AM.

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broadblues 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 13:15:06
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4132
From: Portsmouth England

@Hypex

Quote:

What I want to try first is using the Wizard to back it up since it does have a salvage mode. That should work at the device level and override SFS with own routines to read the filesystem. Hopefully that can get it all out.


Using the wizatrd *before* you've done backup is the best way to maximise data loss.

I'm not sure why you think it can do a better job than the FS of extracting the data, it may be called a wizard but it isn't magic.

Copy all first then, if there is an issue at a particular file, copy directory by directory to avoid that file, then finallly copy the directory with the broken file(s) and use a a pattern to avoid it.

Then maybe use the wziard to see if you can get any broken files back

Then refomat and copy data back.

As long as there is no actual disk damage you should be able to restore and continue.

That may be a tedious excercise, but, IMHO, it's the safest way to retrieve the most data.

In future try to avoid switching off while YAM is writing to disk to reduce the risk of this happening again.

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Hypex 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 14:59:02
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8729
From: Greensborough, Australia

@broadblues

Quote:
Using the wizatrd *before* you've done backup is the best way to maximise data loss.


I was planning to use the Wizard to actually back up the data. Since it does have a salvage mode. And AFAICT it was designed to rescue data.

Quote:
I'm not sure why you think it can do a better job than the FS of extracting the data, it may be called a wizard but it isn't magic.


For one thing going through the filesystem keeps getting the operation stuck as it brings to surface some bug causing it to busy loop. Another is that a salvage mode is usually designed to rescue data knowing the filesystem is broken.

Quote:
In future try to avoid switching off while YAM is writing to disk to reduce the risk of this happening again.


Huh? I didn't turn it off while YAM was writing to disk. SFS brought up an error after YAM wrote to disk. After this I reboot. It booted fine. I load up YAM and it gets stuck. YAM said it was validating folders and didn't go any futher. My CPU meter went up.

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broadblues 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 16:31:15
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4132
From: Portsmouth England

@Hypex
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Using the wizatrd *before* you've done backup is the best way to maximise data loss.

I was planning to use the Wizard to actually back up the data. Since it does have a salvage mode. And AFAICT it was designed to rescue data.


But the salvage mode will restore deleted files too, and possibly partially overwritten ones, (i'm not sure how deep it goes) so there is a risk of overwriting new data with old and all sorts, a simple copy to start will get you all the 'good data'. *then* you can do the advance slavage, before fixing the partition.

It also takes an age and a half to scan the disk for partitions....


Quote:

Huh? I didn't turn it off while YAM was writing to disk. SFS brought up an error after YAM wrote to disk. After this I reboot. It booted fine. I load up YAM and it gets stuck. YAM said it was validating folders and didn't go any futher. My CPU meter went up.


The damage was likely done on an earlier interupted write and then an error pops up when attempting to write to the same partistion area again . That ceratinly was the case when I experienced this.

Other combinations are possible ofcourse, including the possibilty of a real file system level bug.

Last edited by broadblues on 17-Apr-2017 at 04:32 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 16:51:16
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 698
From: Trondheim, Norway

@broadblues

Quote:


In future try to avoid switching off while YAM is writing to disk to reduce the risk of this happening again.



Isn't this exactly the type of situation that SFS is supposed to handle?

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broadblues 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 17:07:54
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4132
From: Portsmouth England

@kolla
Quote:

Quote:

@broadblues
Quote:
In future try to avoid switching off while YAM is writing to disk to reduce the risk of this happening again.

Isn't this exactly the type of situation that SFS is supposed to handle?



Yes, but isn't perfect, you won't get invalid file systems going into valdation mode like with FFS but if you try hard enough often enough, you will do file system damage by switching off during a file system write. (It *is* rare though).

As I said Hypex issue may have another cause, it's a just sensible precaution...

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wawa 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 17-Apr-2017 17:25:06
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5731
From: Unknown

@broadblues

from my experience ffs with its validation mode is much more secure than sfs in strohmayers version. (re)validation may be an annoying thing to happen, especially with silent drives, when you wonder what happened to your machine, because it doesnt seem to boot while its validating for a while. but validation is pretty much always successful, while when your sfs partition reports an error, it is a sure signal to secure the data and reformat, because the errors will reapear more and more frequently, which may eventually lead to severe data loss.

Last edited by wawa on 17-Apr-2017 at 05:25 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 21-Apr-2017 13:20:23
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8729
From: Greensborough, Australia

@broadblues

Quote:
But the salvage mode will restore deleted files too, and possibly partially overwritten ones, (i'm not sure how deep it goes) so there is a risk of overwriting new data with old and all sorts, a simple copy to start will get you all the 'good data'. *then* you can do the advance slavage, before fixing the partition.


Given SFS stores deleted files in the .recycled drawer I would have expected any deleted files to be restored to the same drawer with the same names. I do see your point. I probably expected better out of a salvage mode than to ignorantly overwrite files already rescued.

Since I had trouble with copying files out my first port of call was salvage as I didn't know how deep the corruption would go. But I found there is something wrong with it. It would scan over the volume, collect a file list and present it. I tested salvage with all files selected. It started off well, bar was progressing then all of a sudden it stops short. No errors or anything. And files partially salvaged. I did it a few times and it filled in more files. The end result is I can't trust it like that. I'd really hate it if the filesystem was really corrupted and it was my only option.

So decided to copy things out and avoid problem areas.

Quote:
The damage was likely done on an earlier interupted write and then an error pops up when attempting to write to the same partistion area again . That ceratinly was the case when I experienced this.


I found the culprit. I checked my YAM folders for newest changed files. And on the day it happened a few suspects showed up. I went through them and found the bad file was a YAM index. Thought I would try deleting it, since volume was still in R/W status, even if I didn't expect it to work. It did work!

Once corruption starts it can still spread so think the best thing would be to reformat and restore regardless. Even if it looks normal still. Should be faster to restore to HD then backing up to USB stick.

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Deniil715 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 20:50:51
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4140
From: Sweden

@Hypex

Hey, 2GB is nothing. Copy, format, replace. Done!

Use BackUp. By far the fastest way. Handles read errors, copies links correctly. You can specify directories or large files that should be skipped.

It's a bit more problematic when a 1TB partitions cracks down Still, BackUp gets it done.

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sundown 
Re: Access to SFS volume is suddenly locking up programs
Posted on 23-Apr-2017 18:27:31
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5098
From: Right here...

@Hypex

Backup is the only backup/copy app that I've found that retains the sys:SObjs links.
Do all my backup with it, it is fast.

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