@hnl_dk

Quote:

... are they going to get trouble about our 50$, that they still owe us!!!

Ehm...well, actually they owe 100$ to some of us...

(My Party Pack coupon is screaming from the drawer... )

Last edited by Zorro on 19-Mar-2005 at 11:26 AM.

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@Wiffy

Quote:

Wiffy wrote: @takemehomegrandma But I still read meaning into that careful phrasing on the website.

I have been thinking about this too. And I have come up with a conclusion (or perhaps rather a hypothesis of an explanation). Here it is:

What Garry Hare is really selling now, is Amiga Inc.

I have very little knowledge about Garry Hare, but from what I understand, the man is not stupid. The company he represents (the VC’s that put in the seed capital to fund the first Amiga Inc/Amino) must understand the same thing as the rest of us – there is no real, solid future for Fleecys 1999 vision of AmigaDE. Back in 1999 it seemed to be a cool idea. The IT hypes flourished and the dot-com boom peaked. The bubble had not yet burst. However, Amiga Inc failed to capitalize on their idea, they failed to turn their vision into something tangible. And now six years(!!) has passed. This is a very long time in this industry. Back then, Java was big already, but since then it has become the de facto standard. That means it’s huge. Enormous. Basic marketing strategy theories (Porter) say that if you are going to put up a frontal attack against a competitor (which would be insane in this case but still perhaps the best way) requres *at least* 3x the resources as that particular competitor has at hand. There are of course other strategies, but none is particular cheap, and they all require a *durable* financial strength. It would probably be much easier for the Frieden brothers to replace Windows with OS4 on 90% of the desktops in the world, than it would be for Amiga Inc to compete against Java. It is simply not possible. TAO may have found its place in camcorders and stuff like that, but the AmigaDE will never become anything at all.

They all know this. But this is the nature of being in the venture capital business. Sometime you bet on a winner, but most often you loose. When you loose you want to salvage as much as you can and limit your losses. If there are any assets you might want to sell them to the highest bidder to minimize the loss when you withdraw.

What Garry Hare has done since he entered the picture early 2003 is the following:

1) He has saved the assets. The Amiga Inc was practically bankrupt (but not filed as such AFAIK), and while it had some assets, it also had huge debts and claims that threatened the assets and the possibility to convert them into cash. Through a series of “corporate takeovers” (no cash was probably ever involved) and IP transfers forth and back, they managed to distance the assets far enough away from the claim holders to feel safe. Yesterday they announced the very last step in this process. KMOS turned into Amiga Inc. The result of this process is that everything seems to be exactly the same as it was a couple of year ago; a new company called “Amiga Inc” exists, and it owns *exactly the same assets* as the old one did, but it is now *free of debts*. The old Amiga Inc would be very difficult to sell because of the poor financial and juridical position it was in, but after the assets has been cleansed from the old filth through this process, this new incarnation of the company will be much easier to sell off.

2) He has created a display window and put all the assets up for display. The “Amiga.com” domain was the perfect address for his shop. The old website was removed, and a new one was put there in its place. All deeper info about things that may be Amiga related but not directly under “Amiga Inc’s” control (hence *not* sellable) has been removed. So has any information about any activities, probably because there aren’t any. What remains is several showcases for how “Amiga Inc” could be used, sublimely targeted to potential buyers. This includes AmigaDE, AmigaOS (except the 4.0 version), etc. The assets that is on display are:

- The Amiga brand name.
- The AmigaDE. They still have the TAO licenses as well as the games on display. Perhaps someone will find that interesting? To help such decisions they have put up some inspiring showcases of the possibilities; the future, the technology, v1.5, a webshop, etc.
- The AmigaOS. Amiga Inc owns the rights to every single version of AmigaOS, except one in particular, the 4.0 version (which they don’t support or distribute), but they ensure that any buyer will have *their full right* to continue any future development of the OS (beyond 4.0) on their own if they wish, completely in-house, and in the way they want to.
- 40.000 Amiga applications that can run on these OS’s (even a link to Aminet and Hall of Light), which will give any buyer a flying start.
- A community of users and developers. The “old” Amiga Inc proclaimed they had 3000+ “content developers” for their AmigaDE. Now on display is 69 user groups world wide, several community web portals including amigaworld.net and amiga.org with several thousands of members (you who reads this is included ).
- Some partnerships/licenses finished and set up from the start; the right to use the TAO technology and income coming from Cloanto for AmigaOS.
- Any stacked up inquiries to the “technologylicensing@amiga.com”, “brandlicensing@amiga.com”, and “publicity@amiga.com” addresses, which will at the same time prove an interest about anything Amiga as well as bringing business opportunities to the potential buyer.

So if you are interested, why don’t you send an offer by e-mail or by post to their NY box address? If they find your offer to be interesting enough (covering big enough parts of their losses), then chances are that you may be able to take over the whole shebang, because I really think they are interested to sell it. The debts are removed, and the legal rights (to future AmigaOS etc) seems to be thought through and guaranteed. Everything is carefully set up and ready to go!

Comments?

@takemehomegrandma
Quote:

Comments?

No way!! You make too much sense!

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@corwin

Quote:

... that this is not only a complete failure but totally unprofessionnal work.

Unprofessional.. so it's perfect continuum to what Amiga Inc has been doing for years now. Hardly surprising.

Last edited by hooligan on 19-Mar-2005 at 03:51 PM.

@smithy
Quote:

Java, with 500 million software titles and true run-anywhere capabilities vs AmigaAnywhere with Solitare and a fruit machine simulator, and no big partners like Nokia or Samsung

it also have java... and a good implementation too...

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@takemehomegrandma

OMG! You made it sound so belivable...

If you look at amiga.com from this point of view, everything out there shouts 'buy me!' :o


You moved my brain (or maybe butt?) enough to make me register on AW, although I rarely post on any forums (I always read `em) :)


Actually, I`ll go further than you. Who is the possible buyer? Surely not some big players like Gateway was, not Microsoft, not Apple, not IBM. They all don`t need some dusty Amiga brand to sell their products, not that they care for something they could develop on their own droping a mere 10mln$ for that. Amiga Inc. isn`t worth more than 1-2mln $ I guess, and that`ll be streching it. So who? Most likely, somekind of Tulip-type company, which will buy the name and produce some fancy little devices (like recent commodore mp3 player) and guess what? they are going to be able to put AmigaDE on it, as a fun bonus for their customers. Now that could even turn out to be good business for them.

Anyone else? Like someone willing to develop Amiga as we used to know it and like it? I surely doubt it. For one, no one in Amiga business could come up with cash big enough to pay off the shareholders, and they won`t fall for "hey, i`ll sell new amiga products and i`ll share profits with you" again. Two, what do we have left? 8 companies (togheter with Amiga Inc.) still doing something, a dozen or two of active Amiga dealers and bunch of developers and that`s it. That`s the market, or at least, that`s what left. The market is divided, not only by MOS/AmigaOS, but also by AmigaDE/AmigaOS if they are going to push all efforts for AA. There`s no possible way, any investor, could do any money on the market we have today, OS4, although great job, will be lucky to at least refund overworked Hyperion because what`s the sane number of sales to expect? In my opinion, from 3.000 to 5.000, counting togheter active classical and A1 users. OS 3.5 could sell in around 10.000 copies and it still wasn`t considered as succesfull, while 3.9 made half that number and the market is still shrinking. Three, or four years have passed.
Yes, I know Eyetech, AmigaOne, could sell, could bring fresh blood, new users. The problem is, A1 made a bad start with more or less broken hardware (not speaking about microa1) , which could be ok, if it wasn`t in the very crucial moment when you have to introduce a new product and put it in the best light. Especialy when the price isn`t low, it isn`t even acceptable, it`s just expensive.

I had some hopes in conjuction with AHT and their STB`s, which, if sold with OS4, could bring a lot of fresh users and put some life, make a difference. But AHT, from the reasons known to few, had to search for alternative, went for AROS (which made some progress, but is still far from being completed).



Why I`m blabling for so long, is that, there is one, simple reason - and I`d like you all to understand that. Amiga Inc. holds the crown of Amiga (in the meaning of our little world, both community and market). They are the most visible window, or leaflet, for the outside world. Someone expects a company named Amiga Inc. to be the leading factor in Amiga as a whole. This is the gate through which we could expand. The only ancient tree, roots, in our garden we have. If there would be no AI, there would be no market - just like it has been with Atari (aside with the fact it`s gaming brand now). What we have now will demise, die slowly and wont comeback without company to lead it. Imagine Apple goes down tomorrow, and no one can ressurect it. Would the market survive? No, it would get divided among 3rd parties, each making it`s own contribution, standard, bringing chaos beyond control, causing people to abandon their Macs. We need leaders, that`s why we vote. We don`t get two or more goverments, because that just wouldn`t work. To finally convince you how important this is, take a peek into news archives and check the dates and events when Amiga went down -> then up again, with new company and vision. Each vision caused the market and community to grow, or at least gave some life. Companies sniffed business and developed their products, customers bought them eagerly. When AI went quiet, its position was uncertain, companies got their projects iced and everyone hold their breath. That`s what we have now, the big wait before OS4 comes out. But that won`t be enough. OS4 needs a future, and the future is cloudly unpredictable. Hyperion has the rights, but Hyperion can`t act out of what terms bind them.

The amiga has survived thanks to community, how about a new amiga.com homepage made by the community? It will be a strong symbol wouldn`t it?

Some of you guys with talent could make some rough previews/mockups of how you would like the amiga.com to look like, and then we create a poll of which to be used. And then try to present it for the amiga.com staff.

Or am i driving on the wrong side of the road here?

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@Restore2003

Every material has its limits :)

Community is smaller with every year and it won`t start growing when it`ll reach "0" :)

More than new web page, AI needs new clear path and future plans.

Holy words, Liluh . . . holy words

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@Restore2003

I agree whit you, how ever the users are not united, we are just throwing bs at each other. AmigaOS, AmigaDE, AROS, Classic, MorphOS, Amitlon and the emulation community.

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@Restore2003

I agree with everything you've said, except

Quote:

The amiga has survived thanks to community,

Should read;

The amiga has survived despite the community,

@klesterjr

Quote:

I'll TRY to keep a positive attitude, but "I've got a very bad feeling about this . . .

Yeah, me too. I just can't help but think that if this meant good news for the OS community, they would have been more forthcoming...

This is the sort of cryptic statement we've had so often before that turns out to be bad news in disguise. Like you, I just hope I'm wrong.

But this is one question that really must be put to Mr Hare now.

@Liluh

Swiete slowa, dac mu wodki!

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@DruidPoet

Quote:

The amiga has survived despite the community,

I think that's diminishing the community a bit, even though I see what you're getting at. But keep in mind also that the community consists of people who, ten years after the death of chickenlips, still are willing to support the Amiga "market" by putting their money where their mouths are (and for most it wouldn't be the first time during the last decade).

Now, without this community, what would be left of the Amiga? Enough name value to actually make a difference? The question is if there is today even, but I think it'd be null to zero if the community, users, developers, companies, hadn't kept it alive in the meantime.

Just my two cents. (Spent the rest on this here Amiga in front of me. )

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@mjohnson

No, you are absolutly correct. I was having a dig at this thread.

Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside doesn't it.

Hi Everyone,


In 22 1/2 hours, we should find out what this all means.

And boy will I look stupid then!

@Atheist

Quote:

Atheist wrote: Hi Everyone, In 22 1/2 hours, we should find out what this all means. And boy will I look stupid then!

What do you mean then???

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(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)

@Yo

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@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

What Garry Hare is really selling now, is Amiga Inc.

A little consistency please you can't complain about the proffesionalism of the webpage in one breath then say this is the perfect window for selling the Amiga?

Just a little while ago half this thread said that the website we're talking about couldn't sell a life jacket to a drowning man, water to a thirsty beduin or a snowball to Satan himself........?

Well for your theory to have any effect you would think that Garry would spend the last of his resources to make this "window" just a bit more attractive. Why would he even bother to announce to Amiga fans that the website would be updated? Many potential buyers here? Besides you said so yourself Garry is not stupid and he has said so before that he does not deal publicly. He works through personal meetings and contacts. I doubt you would ever actually see Garry do anything, I don't hink he works that way.

I'm sorry but this theory is even more desperate than the "hidden" meanings half the people in this thread have found on the Amiga website.

I wonder has anyone tried playing it backwards and seeing what it says? Bet we'd all be in for a big surprise then! And if Yo says Quote:

What do you mean then???

Last edited by Steff on 19-Mar-2005 at 11:44 PM.
Last edited by Steff on 19-Mar-2005 at 11:44 PM.

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@gary_c
Quote:

Uh, didn't you see the news? www.amiga.com is the KMOS web site. KMOS is now Amiga, Inc.; it doesn't exist as a holding company or anything else anymore. Isn't this clear? There will be no KMOS signatures on contracts, because the company is Amiga, Inc. and so Amiga, Inc. signatures will be on the contracts from now on.

I have seen this argument crop up elsewhere and for the life of me I don't understand what is meant by it. A holding company is normally a company that exists almost entirely on paper in order to hold and control assets. Therefore it has little reason to exist besides that.

KMOS bought Amiga Inc. KMOS therefore holds Amiga Inc. KMOS has never really been anything but a holding company. Garry is President of KMOS and, no doubt, becuase of this ivestment by KMOS he has been slipped in as president of Amiga Inc. KMOS has not be dissolved or liquidated, it has no need to wind itself up, it stays basically as it was.

The KMOS name, I grant you will probably, never be heard of again in the public sphere, but the company will contiunue to exist and may turn up on the odd contract especially if it has to do with IP rights. So how is it clear that KMOS is no more? It wasn't much when it was alive, nor intended to be, from what I can make out. Its name will not be on most contracts I agree with you, but in terms of IP if it is big enough and involves a substatial change in the status quo, I would expect to see KMOS somewhere.

Besides, who in their right mind would transfer assests from a safe holding company into a company that has substantial drains on finances and needs to make a lot of sales before turning a profit, it just does not make sense. KMOS lives!! but it never had much of a life nor will it in the future I guess.

Last edited by GregS on 20-Mar-2005 at 02:27 AM.

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