@Seer

Quote:

Seer wrote: @takemehomegrandma If that's the "real" contract then this 'Target-Hardware' means any PPC based hardware developed and marketed for the Amiga platform and userbase including but not limited to the hardware developed and marketed by Phase5, DCE and the AmigaOne hardware developed by Escena under contract with the Amiga One Partners sounds a bit.. funny.. Doesn't that mean that to get a license for hardware you go to the Amiga One Partners eg Hyperion and Eyetech ?

Indeed - I was going to say the same thing. So how would this impact on Troika and Ack? (not that I think Ack will do anything, having spoken with him, I'm inclined to take everything he says with a pinch of salt)

Also why do people say that this discussion is pointless? While Hyperion may not be contractually allowed to port to X86 or other processors, if the business case can be made as strong and compelling enough, surely Amiga inc could then be approached.

Also - the PDA... that PPC PDA concept which OS 4 was ported too.. would that be covered by an Amiga One licence.

I heard the Alledged reason why Eyetech couldnt release the batch of Micro Amiga Ones is because Amiga inc alledgedly back in the day owed Eyetech money.. As payment for what Amiga Inc alledgedly owed them, Eyetech were alledgedly allowed to release the uA1's without paying royalties to Amiga inc. Then Amiga became KMOS and KMOS became Amiga and so all their old debt got cancelled - Amiga then put thumbscews on Eyetech..

I also heard that McBill is alledgedly so incompetant he alledgedly caused Fleecy alledgedly great financial problems to the point that he alledgedly lost his house..

Last edited by Bobsonsirjonny on 21-Jul-2006 at 10:19 AM.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Boy, thats one huge flock of 'alledgedlys'.....

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@Rogue

>I think people are overlooking a fundamental issue, and honestly, I can't believe I need to say it again: >Hyperion CANNOT port to x86. Even IF they wanted. They do not have a license for x86, only for PPC.

If this is really the only reason: Talk to Amiga Inc. and get one! I cant believe that Hyperion and Amiga Inc. are not looking for alternatives in this situation.

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@Rogue

>I think people are overlooking a fundamental issue, and honestly, I can't believe I need to say it again: >Hyperion CANNOT port to x86. Even IF they wanted. They do not have a license for x86, only for PPC.

If this is really the only reason: Talk to Amiga Inc. and get one! I cant believe that Hyperion and Amiga Inc. are not looking for alternatives in this situation.

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@Hammer

Quote:

For pixel shader usages, the pixel shaders(SIMD) units in Intel GMA900 kills Altivec.

for pixel shaders you use a graphic card, not the cpu.

Quote:

A G5 can't operate without a NB

And an Core duo also needs a Northbridge, your point is?

Quote:

Cell is not designed for laptops

Cell isn't finished yet. But IBM can design cpus to suit client needs, just like they designed Xenon for Microsoft, Gecko for Nintendo or CELL for Sony.




Although it's totally offtopic: I usually wonder what interest you have on Amiga/AmigaOS, you seem more interested in posting AMD/Intel benchmarks than in Amiga stuff, enjoying your amiga or doing anything with amigaos software.

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@T_Bone

Quote:

I don't think it's the license standing in the way, a license could be had.

Er...

You didn't grow tired of pointing out that Acill tried to get a license for the Pegasos but failed. So pray, why do you think you can make that statement?

And FYI, Bernd didn't have a license. Nor did Haage & Partner. They had an emulator license, much like AmigaForever/Cloanto has.

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@elatour

Quote:

You just couldn't resist, could you?

No, because I usually say my opinion. Do you have a problem with that?

Quote:

I'm not sure how you took any of the posts up to the point that you replied to somehow be directed at you or Hyperion.

No body said it directly, but seeing this on an AMIGA site somewhat implies a relevance to Amiga, doesn't it? I would also like to point to this quote: I'll say this much however, with the latest flame fests going on here at AW.NET over whether to port to x86, where "port to x86" doubtlessly does refer to AmigaOS, or not?

Quote:

Don't forget the many other porting ideas that have been shot down as not worth doing for some reason or other, like to PPC Macs, Pegs, PPC QEMU, etc., whether for OS4 OR any post-OS4 version, OR by anyone that owns the AmigaOS at that point.

The same applies - no license. If there was a possibility to port to PPC Macs or to a stupid emulation, then we could as well port it to anything else. I never said, BTW, that doing a PPC Mac or Peg version was "not worth it". I just said we don't have a license for it. I wonder what is so hard to get about that.

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@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

AFAIK, here is Hyperions mandate to create OS4:

If that is referring to that contract that is supposedly flying around,that was a draft.

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@umisef

Quote:

There is something interesting in Rogue's reply, though.... He refers to Hyperion as "they". I am pretty sure that used to be "we"...

That's a weak attempt at rumormongering. "They" refers to Hyperion as an entity, which I never was part of. I never was a part of Hyperion, I am contracted and nothing else. I say "they" when it's management decisions, and "we" if it's a team decision.

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@elatour

I am sorry, but the reference to porting OS 4 was done by YOU in

Like it or not, the x86 move has been good for Apple, but will it last? Only time will tell of course. I'll say this much however, with the latest flame fests going on here at AW.NET over whether to port to x86, Mac PPC hardware or PPC emulators like QEMU, my halting all development on my MicroA1 while it starts to gather dust in a corner of my office while I ponder whether to leave the platform for good after 20+ years of loving everything Amiga, this is the closest that I have ever come to considering buying a Mac PowerBook.

The reference to "flame fests going on here" ... "whether to port to x86" clearly says so, so if you could have left that out I wouldn't have posted anything; but since you make reference to it, I took this as another "let's port to x86 because Apple did it and it is 1337" post and replied accordingly.

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@Seer

Quote:

Seer wrote: @takemehomegrandma If that's the "real" contract then this 'Target-Hardware' means any PPC based hardware developed and marketed for the Amiga platform and userbase including but not limited to the hardware developed and marketed by Phase5, DCE and the AmigaOne hardware developed by Escena under contract with the Amiga One Partners sounds a bit.. funny.. Doesn't that mean that to get a license for hardware you go to the Amiga One Partners eg Hyperion and Eyetech ?

No. Back when the contract was outlined, Escena made a deal with "the AmigaOne partners" (Eyetech/Hyperion) to develop the "AmigaOne" (the contractual definition of 'AmigaOne' is "the PPC hardware product developed by Escena Gmbh for the Amiga One Partners, initially intended to operate in conjunction with an Amiga 1200"). That text in the contract only acknowledge that Amiga Inc is aware of this, and accepts it. AFAIK, only Amiga Inc can issue OEM licenses to hardware vendors, and only one OEM license has been issued - to Eyetech for the "Amiga One".

However, you are not the first who brainstorms in these lines. The "AmigaOne" Eyetech sold in the end (three completely different versions of it even) is clearly something different than the above. It seemed like Eyetech could use their OEM license quite freely (I don't know if they really could, or if they did so anyway, but it doesn't really matter now), and many times has the thought been put forward to Eyetech, like "since you can sell the three different Teron as 'AmigaOne', why can't you sell for instance the Pegasos as 'AmigaOne' as well"?

But again, to go back to your question, I read the whole contract (which I honestly believe is real), and while I merely am an "amateur armchair lawyer" I still have two functioning eyes, and I have not seen any trace of a sub-licensing clause granting Eyetech or Hyperion the right to issue OEM licenses on their own to third party. Genesi, however, was granted exactly such a right (including both the technology and trademarks), and in *their* case this is clearly expressed in the contract they have with Amiga Inc. But in Eyetech/Hyperion's case, the contract seems to focus more on how Amiga Inc shall get the technology back in-house, than how the technology should spread further ...

@AP

Quote:

If this is really the only reason: Talk to Amiga Inc. and get one! I cant believe that Hyperion and Amiga Inc. are not looking for alternatives in this situation.

You go on.

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@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @takemehomegrandma Quote: AFAIK, here is Hyperions mandate to create OS4: If that is referring to that contract that is supposedly flying around,that was a draft.

Well, everyone knew that, since it doesn't have any signatures. However, all *key* aspects of it (at least what interests me) has been confirmed already by you, Ben Hermans, Fleecy, probably Alan Redhouse and others, during the years ...

@Rogue

Quote:

Quote: I don't think it's the license standing in the way, a license could be had. Er... You didn't grow tired of pointing out that Acill tried to get a license for the Pegasos but failed. So pray, why do you think you can make that statement? Quote: Don't forget the many other porting ideas that have been shot down as not worth doing for some reason or other, like to PPC Macs, Pegs, PPC QEMU, etc., whether for OS4 OR any post-OS4 version, OR by anyone that owns the AmigaOS at that point. The same applies - no license. If there was a possibility to port to PPC Macs or to a stupid emulation, then we could as well port it to anything else. I never said, BTW, that doing a PPC Mac or Peg version was "not worth it". I just said we don't have a license for it. I wonder what is so hard to get about that.

Ok Acill failed to get a license for the Pegasos. However he is not the exclusive licence holder for AmigaOS 4 which is Hyperion but an individual.

Has Hyperion officialy tried to get one (for Pegasos, Mac or x86) and failed too?

and

Supposing that every effort for custom hardware (troika, ack) fails to deliver goods by the end of this year what Hyperion plans to do about it?

Thanks

Last edited by Turrican on 21-Jul-2006 at 01:48 PM.
Last edited by Turrican on 21-Jul-2006 at 01:46 PM.

@Turrican
Quote:

Supposing that every effort for custom hardware (troika, ack) fails to deliver goods by the end of this year what Hyperion plans to do about it?

Well, you certainly don't have to wait until the end of the year to get a Mac, you can pick one up any time! For the CPU predjudiced you even still have a choice of PPC or Intel. Plus, Apple has no licensing issues, at least none that they make a point of being a problem to the end user. Another bonus is, you don't have to wait for software.

Sorry, just felt like being on topic for a change!

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@Rogue

Quote:

No, because I usually say my opinion. Do you have a problem with that?

No I have no problems with "opinions", but what I was commenting on was you're need to answer in a very condescening manner a question that was just not asked: "whether AmigaOS4 should be ported to x86 by Hyperion or not." We already know Hyperion's facts and opinions on this.

Quote:

No body said it directly, but seeing this on an AMIGA site somewhat implies a relevance to Amiga, doesn't it?

But AmigaOS4 or Hyperion was not brought up, so you can go ahead and state the facts on why Hyperion's will not port AmigaOS4 to x86, or other current PPC platforms, including virtual ones, but you cannot speak for Commodore or the many other companies that actually own/have owned/will own Amiga. The last time I checked, the current owner of the Amiga brand and all Amiga IP is Amiga Inc., not Hyperion.

Quote:

I would also like to point to this quote: I'll say this much however, with the latest flame fests going on here at AW.NET over whether to port to x86, where "port to x86" doubtlessly does refer to AmigaOS, or not?

Yes, AmigaOS and Amiga's owners, past, present and future, not OS4 or Hyperion. And I also spoke about other PPC platforms, whether physical or virtual, which you chose to ignore in your reply. Feel free to sate why Hyperion will not port OS4 to x86, and even to other PPC platforms, but please don't speak for others that actually have, do and will own the Amiga brand, IP and its OS in the future.

Quote:

The same applies - no license. If there was a possibility to port to PPC Macs or to a stupid emulation, then we could as well port it to anything else. I never said, BTW, that doing a PPC Mac or Peg version was "not worth it". I just said we don't have a license for it. I wonder what is so hard to get about that.

You just don't get it, this is not about you or Hyperion or OS4 exclusively. And while you're talking about it, it's not emulation, it's virtualization, which is a big difference and there is no reason why you could not try get a license for other PPC hardware or a virtual platform. But you know what? I really don't care so don't bother "explaining it to me", seeing as I am not speaking about Hyperion or OS4, I'm aiming these comments to the community in general and hopefully to the urrent and future owners of the Amiga, which IMHO should take a page from other's sucesses.

Last edited by elatour on 21-Jul-2006 at 05:29 PM.
Last edited by elatour on 21-Jul-2006 at 05:28 PM.

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@Rogue

Quote:

The reference to "flame fests going on here" ... "whether to port to x86" clearly says so, so if you could have left that out I wouldn't have posted anything; but since you make reference to it, I took this as another "let's port to x86 because Apple did it and it is 1337" post and replied accordingly.

I was just stating the fact that there HAVE been flamig wars, including not only x86, but whether to port to other physical or virtual PPC hardware platforms, even including Cell. I used this as a back-drop for the comments I made later:

That I wish past, present and future owners of the Amiga, it's IP and OS, would have taken/will take a page out of Apple's book, including all of it's successes in marketting AND technology, not just the fact that it moved from PPC to x86. I brought this up to counter the current thought by some that Apple would not succeed with this move, when in fact they have, by leveraging many things, not JUST technology or the move to x86.

Bottom line, is that whatever Apple is doing, it's working...at least for the time being.

You assumed I was talking about OS4 and Hyperion and an x86 exclusively, when the fact is that it was aimed at the bigger picture, the Amiga and it owners in general, whether past, present or future and it's approach to the desktop platform, it's hardware and marketting approach. We all very well know what Hyperion's views are on these topics, so there is no need to cover that again. We've all heard your "opnions" loud and clear on this many times, so there is no need for you to "educate" us again.

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@Turrican

I am sorry but I am not at liberty to discuss company internals in public.

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@elatour

Quote:

The last time I checked, the current owner of the Amiga brand and all Amiga IP is Amiga Inc., not Hyperion.

I wonder what you checked, because this is incorrect. Parts of AmigaOS 4.0 belong to others; for example, ExecSG does neither belong to Amiga Inc. NOR Hyperion.

Quote:

You just don't get it, this is not about you or Hyperion or OS4 exclusively.

What else? AmigaOS 3.x is old, 4.0 is current. AROS? It's already there on x86, for quite a long time (yeah, irony again). MorphOS then?

I'm sorry, if you are talking AmigaOS, there is no way around Hyperion or OS 4. Unless you want to start at 3.1 again and go the long way again, but I assure you that this is not going to work.

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@elatour

Quote:

You assumed I was talking about OS4 and Hyperion and an x86 exclusively, when the fact is that it was aimed at the bigger picture, the Amiga and it owners in general, whether past, present or future and it's approach to the desktop platform,

You make the mistake to assume that you could easily just go to Amiga and ask for an x86 license, but you fail to acknowledge that this isn't possible at all, because Amiga Inc cannot give you a license for something they don't have...

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