Poster | Thread |
COBRA
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 5-Nov-2006 20:42:58
| | [ #81 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 26-Apr-2004 Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand | | |
|
| @Crumb
Quote:
BTW, Does "Panda" use a 7448 dual core or single core? |
7448 is single core. There is no dual-core 7448 version AFAIK. The Tsi-109 has dual-CPU support, which means you could in theory use two 7448's with it to have a dual-G4 board. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
kindergip
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 3:40:46
| | [ #82 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 7-Aug-2004 Posts: 312
From: Canada | | |
|
| @Darrin who wrote:
"Unfortunately there is a sizable portion of the community that have a hard enough time forking out $19.99 for a download of Amiga Forever."
Ya, I never could bring myself to buy it to run on my Amiga peripheral pc. You just know when you running an Amiga.
"The same people who complain about hardware prices on eBay and how "idiots" keep driving the bidding price up and up."
There are fewer working Amigas and peripherals left each and every day. Those who really need or want that hardware will pay the price.
"The same ones who keep pointing out that you can buy a complete PeeCee for $400, the same ones who insist that an A1 mobo should cost the same and no more than an Intel or AMD equipped one."
Well it shouldn't. In a perfect world. In the one we're currently part of it costs a lot more and this has been explained time and again.
"The same ones who will be queuing up to download OS4 from their favourite warez site as soon as it is " cracked" to run on their second hand PPC Mac."
Piracy is the bane of all markets. In a monopoly situation like Windows, it only serves as ancillary marketing cementing Microsoft's position.
"The same ones that only really like Linux because it is FREE."
Linux as a server seems very good. Linux as a desktop has another gigabyte to go to match the facility of Windows.
However the point I would make is that the "same ones" are not a homogeneous class but small sets of individuals that when allowed "free speech" become a cacophony that drowns out sensibility and critical thought.
"I bought a second A1200 in an Elbox tower just for the Power Vixen. I'm getting sick of wasting good money to try and support hardware that is announced publicly and then cancelled behind closed doors."
I bought a µA1. It works well despite the track record of AmigaOne's to that point.
"I think OS4 on the Playstation 3 is our last hope."
It would be nice to have commodity hardware even if it wasn't meant for the Amiga desktop. I think that has been hinted at for new hardware to run AOS4, it will be for an embedded product but will also run an Amiga desktop as a sideline.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
kindergip
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 4:32:41
| | [ #83 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 7-Aug-2004 Posts: 312
From: Canada | | |
|
| @Colin_Camper said:
"Alans' tirade against his present and potential customers wasn't excrutiating. It was pathetic. It wasn't accurate. It was disingenuous."
I said:
"I thought Redhouse clarified the situation about the Amiga market with excruciating and accurate insight."
*What has been delivered is not perfect, but is absolutely remarkable given the pitifully small potential market to support the product. This is a product by enthusiasts for enthusiasts, not some mass volume high street product.*
*The bottom line is that we got very low volume, new (and therefore defacto not mass tested) PPC hardware into peoples hands when nobody else would do anything. We did that on the basis that we would keep the costs as low as possible for those early adopters who were prepared to share some of the risk. The alternative would have been to price the boards to cover that risk (in consumer terms) making the boards at least three times as expensive to end users. (And prices must be based on manufacturing costs for these small volumes, and not the sales prices of bare, mass-produced PC boards).*
"Tirade: A long angry or violent speech, usually of a censorious or denunciatory nature; a diatribe."
Those quotes Colin, seem to be a clarification of the situation and not some angry diatribe against his present and potential customers.
"No. Alan realised that his business model for the A1 had failed because of his poor choice of platform. His Amiga customers did everything asked of them. They sold out every batch of AmigaOne board. They hung onto their boards despite obvious shortcomings and defects. Alans' Chinese mirage never materialised - almost certainly due to the obvious problems with the hardware. He was in denial about the reasons for the failure of his A1 project and decided to publicly lampoon and insult his customers. This was the last public thing he did. Bog off! and Good Riddance, I say!"
An equally valid interpretation I guess since you don't seem to have anything new to offer about what really happened. All he said was:
*In this context you can understand it is hard to feel anything but frustration when the forums are full of armchair lawyers, designers, hardware experts and business analysts who all claim to be able to do better but seem curiously reluctant to take the same risks, exposure and initiative that we have.*
"Compare and contrast with Genesi"
"They started out with the same hardware problems, quickly learned from their mistakes and produced the PegII which is universally regarded as stable and mature. They 'hard' sold the PegII (some may say a little too hard ) into the Amiga community. They gave away boards to prominent developers within the Amiga community. Eventually they started selling boards to corporate clients running Unix, Linux and Solaris. All the while they never belittled, insulted, lambasted or 'went silent to' the Amiga Community. (They did this and more to Individuals but that's not my point here.)"
It seems clear enough that Bill Buck has cut the strings with some finality. I was going to buy a Pegasos but when the moment arrived I was greeted by the cancellation of the "subsidy". Now I read that it is end of hardware for the PegII.
I bought a µA1 which surpassed my classic Amiga running my 68K apps at 10X the speed my A3KT/040 could and then with update #4 taking another leap forward with JIT.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Crumb
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 9:27:07
| | [ #84 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Mar-2003 Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State) | | |
|
| @ssolie
Quote:
Here I have a Troika Panda (no need for quotation marks) board right here and so does Hyperion. We have them and they run right now. So I should throw away this working Panda board right now and wait for some other evaluation board that isn't even available yet? |
I wonder why the same people who was against Genesi hardware when it was readily available now thinks that it's better to use available hardware...
That Panda board is not designed for desktop use, it doesn't use a microATX form factor, it lacks AGP or PCIe (I thought it was supposed to be a "high-end" board). It's not a cheap board. UD Tech "Panda" looks like an industrial motherboard.
In contrast Pegasos III is designed with desktop in mind. UD Tech produces the "Panda" board but they obviously don't have a license for OS4. Neither them or Troika have one. I wonder why many people here were against a Peg2 port anyway... well, in a pair of months we'll probably see the first Pegasos III prototypes working. Then Troika will be able to order some Peg3 boards and have a decent end-user desktop motherboard._________________ The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Crumb
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 10:30:40
| | [ #85 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Mar-2003 Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State) | | |
|
| @Bodie_CI5
Well, I'm sorry about that as I didn't want to compare anyone with assasins. I'll try to choose my words wisely in the future.
I used the word without thinking that we are in an international forum and people may get offended with words that to you wouldn't sound so "aggresive". I'll choose another word to describe the religious and dogmatic behaviour of some people.
I didn't want in any case to compare anyone with assasins, so if I have offended anyone I'm sorry about that, please accept my apologies. _________________ The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Bodie_CI5
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 13:45:18
| | [ #86 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Jul-2003 Posts: 6739
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Crumb
Hey man, it's no problem. Just keep it in mind for the future, though (as you've already stated). _________________
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
madtrekker
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 15:26:14
| | [ #87 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 11-Mar-2003 Posts: 271
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Crumb
Quote:
In contrast Pegasos III is designed with desktop in mind. UD Tech produces the "Panda" board but they obviously don't have a license for OS4. Neither them or Troika have one. I wonder why many people here were against a Peg2 port anyway... well, in a pair of months we'll probably see the first Pegasos III prototypes working. Then Troika will be able to order some Peg3 boards and have a decent end-user desktop motherboard. |
I don't know how you can possibly believe this is a realistic option. For better or for worse, it seems very clear from everything that has happened so far that Amiga Inc are unwilling to work with Genesi in any form. This is why OS4 was never ported to the Pegasos 2 even when it was available, and this is why it won't be ported to the Pegasos 3 when it is available. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Crumb
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 15:56:11
| | [ #88 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Mar-2003 Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State) | | |
|
| @madtrekker
A company like Troika could buy boards from genesi and rebrand them as mmm "colibri" "platypus" "cangaaroo" or "koala" to continue the amiga tradition of using animal names for hardware. (I'm just joking about the names)
Now, seriously, I don't think that buying boards from Genesi, adding a pair of labels to the board and getting a license for it would be a problem. If they are going to do it with UD Tech they probably would be able to do it with Genesi hardware. Amiga Inc only wants money after all... Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 03:56 PM.
_________________ The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Jorge
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 16:11:46
| | [ #89 ] |
|
|
|
Cult Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2003 Posts: 657
From: Scottsdale, AZ | | |
|
| @kindergip
Quote:
"I think OS4 on the Playstation 3 is our last hope." |
That might help, but I think there should be a PS/3 workstation, more like PS/3 == A500/A1200, and something above, like more RAM, PCIe, etc (and maybe no gfx, but off the shelf ATI/NV/whatever board) for $1000 (or even up to $2000) price point (maybe a A2000 and A3/4/5/6k type machine in the range between $750 to $2000 , while the real PS/3 would run the sony games only ?, the big ones could "emulate" the PS/3)...
The would be great - but won't happen._________________ AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed), G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!) µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738 XE/G4 (broken 7450/800) |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Crumb
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 16:20:07
| | [ #90 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Mar-2003 Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State) | | |
|
| @Jorge
I guess that with the current situation *any* hardware capable of running OS4 will help to keep OS4 alive a few months...
OS4 running on PSX3 would rule. Hyperion already have developed games so maybe they have more chances of Sony allowing them to port OS4...
A full CELL computer may be nice, but until CELL motherboards are produced in quantities, PSX3 may be cool.
Now back to topic and in conclusion...
ACK is going to release any board? be it: a) cpu cards? b) full motherboard? c) accelerator for classic miggies?
AFAIK he doesn't have a license, does he? Is he willing to use and improve AROS-PPC now that OS4 door seems closed?
Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 04:24 PM.
_________________ The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
ssolie
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 16:22:05
| | [ #91 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada | | |
|
| @Crumb I find your use of quotation marks around the Panda name insulting. Please stop it. _________________ ExecSG Team Lead |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
ssolie
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 16:24:55
| | [ #92 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada | | |
|
| @Crumb Quote:
I wonder why the same people who was against Genesi hardware when it was readily available now thinks that it's better to use available hardware... |
So where exactly was I against using Genesi hardware? And what is with the smiley face? Enough with the insults children._________________ ExecSG Team Lead |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Crumb
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 16:26:53
| | [ #93 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Mar-2003 Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State) | | |
|
| @ssolie
Quote:
I find your use of quotation marks around the Panda name insulting. Please stop it. |
Why do you find it insulting? Some people get offended very easily I think...
-edit- BTW, I have looked at my previous post and I have seen that the first time I refer to that board as Panda without quotes and the second time I call it UD Tech "Panda" between quotes because UD Tech board is not called Panda. Troika is the one that has relabelled UD Tech board as Panda.
I was not trying to be offensive , but you should relax a little...Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 04:34 PM. Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 04:28 PM.
_________________ The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
number6
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 16:32:53
| | [ #94 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11589
From: In the village | | |
|
| @Crumb
Quote:
After pages and pages of "off-topic", that might be a nice idea.
Quote:
ACK is going to release any board? be it: a) cpu cards? b) full motherboard? c) accelerator for classic miggies? |
No one has received a CPU card for testing that I am aware of. I doubt there is much progress regarding the other products.
Quote:
AFAIK he doesn't have a license, does he? |
According to him, no.
Quote:
Is he willing to use and improve AROS-PPC now that OS4 door seems closed? |
That question would need to be asked directly of Adam.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Crumb
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 6-Nov-2006 16:40:07
| | [ #95 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Mar-2003 Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State) | | |
|
| @ssolie
Quote:
So where exactly was I against using Genesi hardware? |
Search the words "ssolie pegasos genesi" and check out the results.
Quote:
And what is with the smiley face? |
It's the irony of the situation: people who didn't want to use readily available hardware now wants to use readily avavilable hardware without caring about the board being designed for desktop or not (IMHO it's an industrial motherboard, and without AGP/PCIe and mini-pci it doesn't seem to be designed for desktop use. It can be a wonderful motherboard but it simply doesn't seem to be the best choice for desktop users).
Quote:
Enough with the insults children. |
I think you feel offended very easily. Go out and leave the computer a little, breathe fresh air, run a little outdoors and read my comments again without thinking "Crumb seems to be a blue troll"._________________ The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Colin_Camper
| |
Re: ACK PV Out of the Running? Posted on 20-Oct-2007 15:31:46
| | [ #96 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 6-Jul-2003 Posts: 1188
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Crumb
Never a truer word spoken, eh? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|