@lgn

I'm sure there are plenty of business opportunities for the EFIKA and if so, it may present a business opportunity for the AmigaOS clone called MorphOS as well. Good for them. What has this got to do with creating a sustainable market for the Amiga? Are AmigaOS and MorphOS somehow not competing products anymore?

I really don't get you blue trolls or whatever you decide to call yourselves (yes, this time it was you who said it, not BenH or anyone else). I mean, if we hade these different products from the same manufacturer, we'd have diversification where the success of one alternative would finance the failure of another and everything you've been talking about would actually make sense. This is simply not the case. More alternatives from different manufacturers means more competition and a tougher market to survive for everyone, period. You can argue that it is good for you as a consumer to have more alternatives and perhaps even lower prices due to the competition, but for the products and their manufacturers, competition means less demand, less profit, lesser chances of survival. Unless of course, you can find a way to increase product demand to compensate for it.

What I see is a market that simply doesn't have enough product demand to sustain a multitude of alternatives. In fact, I don't think there is enough product demand in the Amiga market to sustain one alternative to begin with. So, what we need to do is focus on how we could possibly increase the demand for Amiga products again rather than anything else, something that would actually benefit everyone, regardless of preferred choice of Amiga alternative.

To get back to the issue of the EFIKA, I fail to see how it could possibly do anything for the Amiga market. No matter how successful it will become as a commercial product, it is the clones that benefits from the commercial success of the original, not the other way around. So, if you *really* want what's best for the Amiga market as a whole (including clones, third party hardware and software developers, distributors, et all), please do anything you can to support the official alternative, or atleast don't contribute to anything that would be an opposing effort to the official. Anything else is simply counter-productive for everyone in the Amiga market, even for you as a consumer, and only tells me that you care more about whatever prefered alternative you may have rather than the better good for the Amiga market.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@IonMane

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One problem is that you use "we" to refer to Genesi, yourself, yourself and RV, power org, the amiga community, the morphos community, the entire community that uses PPC processors.

Quote:

Which "we" are you referring to this time?

Talking to yourself now?

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@samface

To state it again (like many ppl did before): isn't it a bit silly to talk about MOS vs. OS4? I mean, brand name aside, both OS's are the same: NG Amiga OS. Any piece of (new) hardware capable of running them is a blessing. Bickering about "It runs MOS not OS4 so it will only divide the market more" is plain silly...since there is no market at all (imho at least)! And really, if the EFIKA for one reason or another becomes a succes, thank the Lord that there is at least one NG Amiga OS working on it. And same goes for Samantha/Panda/etc.

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x86/MorphOS 4.0

"Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise." -hyperionmp

"I've been a supporter of "REACTION" GUI because is an Amiga OS thing." -Snuffy

"I personally prefer a vision of do'ers and makers rather than

@Cheese

Please try reading before replying. I returned to my main point about what would be the better good for everyone, regardless of prefered choice of Amiga alternative, twice. That's not what I would call "talking about MOS vs. OS4".

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

I did read your post:

"So, if you *really* want what's best for the Amiga market as a whole (including clones, third party hardware and software developers, distributors, et all), please do anything you can to support the official alternative, or atleast don't contribute to anything that would be an opposing effort to the official. Anything else is simply counter-productive for everyone in the Amiga market, even for you as a consumer, and only tells me that you care more about whatever prefered alternative you may have rather than the better good for the Amiga market."

Now, I might be a bit slow...but isn't this what I was refering to?

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x86/MorphOS 4.0

"Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise." -hyperionmp

"I've been a supporter of "REACTION" GUI because is an Amiga OS thing." -Snuffy

"I personally prefer a vision of do'ers and makers rather than

@Cheese

And no, only the next generation of AmigaOS is the next generation of AmigaOS, period. This isn't about just a name, it's about the fact that these operating systems are not developed by the same people, not sold as a part of the same product family, don't share any benefits of each others commercial success and that they have their own development paths for the future. That they share backwards compatibility with software written for AmigaOS3.x is secondary to that and is also the only thing they have in common.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@Cheese

Quote:

Cheese wrote: @samface I did read your post: "So, if you *really* want what's best for the Amiga market as a whole (including clones, third party hardware and software developers, distributors, et all), please do anything you can to support the official alternative, or atleast don't contribute to anything that would be an opposing effort to the official. Anything else is simply counter-productive for everyone in the Amiga market, even for you as a consumer, and only tells me that you care more about whatever prefered alternative you may have rather than the better good for the Amiga market." Now, I might be a bit slow...but isn't this what I was refering to?

Where is the "talk about AOS vs MOS"? In fact, I see no names of any specific Amiga alternative mentioned at all.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Okay, but...neither MOS or OS4 is coded by original Amiga OS coders and the HW they run on hasn't been done by original Amiga (well Commodore really) engineers. And let's be frank: what commercial succes (on both sides, now and in the future)?

"That they share backwards compatibility with software written for AmigaOS3.x is secondary to that and is also the only thing they have in common."

I hope that was meant as a joke. If not, well check other threads (let us not go OT even more) and if you where, use a smiley next time

--Edit to reply to your last post

Well, you answered that question yourself...but hey, maybe it's just me

Last edited by Cheese on 27-Nov-2006 at 01:54 AM.

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x86/MorphOS 4.0

"Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise." -hyperionmp

"I've been a supporter of "REACTION" GUI because is an Amiga OS thing." -Snuffy

"I personally prefer a vision of do'ers and makers rather than

@bbrv
Thanks for the info.

Private communications related to possible business should be done via the email addresses located at Troika's web site.

We should keep this thread on topic and the topic is the Efika.

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ExecSG Team Lead

@Cheese

Quote:

Cheese wrote: @samface Okay, but...neither MOS or OS4 is coded by original Amiga OS coders and the HW they run on hasn't been done by original Amiga (well Commodore really) engineers.

As an original, you define yourself. There is nothing AmigaOS4 has to do to "prove" itself as an AmigaOS, it IS what it is.

Quote:

And let's be frank: what commercial succes (on both sides, now and in the future)?

Agreed. Like I wrote earlier, there is not enough to sustain any commercial endeavor in the Amiga market. My argument was purely hypothetical.

Quote:

"That they share backwards compatibility with software written for AmigaOS3.x is secondary to that and is also the only thing they have in common." I hope that was meant as a joke. If not, well check other threads (let us not go OT even more) and if you where, use a smiley next time

It was no joke.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

What has this got to do with creating a sustainable market for the Amiga? Are AmigaOS and MorphOS somehow not competing products anymore?

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@samface
Quote:

Quote: "That they share backwards compatibility with software written for AmigaOS3.x is secondary to that and is also the only thing they have in common." I hope that was meant as a joke. If not, well check other threads (let us not go OT even more) and if you where, use a smiley next time It was no joke.

Oh dear...

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@samface

Extremely well put. I have no idea how you could make it any more clearer or easier to understand than that so that people will get it.

@Cheese
Unless there was a joint project by the alternatives and Hyperion to combine the codebase of the OS's to form one product, then thats exactly what the "alternatives" wll always be, an alternative product in competition with the Amiga product.

The only other way they could possibly collaborate is to run on the same hardware to support a single hardware supplier, and even then the alternatives will still be in competition with each other and AOS.

Furthermore, the Amiga market is just that, the AMIGA market.
The alternatives and AOS share the amiga related market and this is where they compete. They also compete on the once again larger PPC market with even more competitors such as linux and QNX and BSD among others.

Strange that people give AO4 solution gripe for supporting the "name" but please tell me, what else are we supposed to call it?

@pixie
I will assume you are not being sarcastic, he seemed to have missed the question the first time so yeah I quoted myself. Anything wrong with that?

Last edited by IonMane on 27-Nov-2006 at 02:12 AM.

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@samface

Oh, no-one will argue OS4 is the real AmigaOS, and other OS's are (in name) just clones. But what's in a name? It takes either a fool or a core dev to see big differences.

And I stand by my point: any (new) HW platform that will run a NG Amiga OS has my blessing...and benefits the whole amiga scene (as in: what's left of it )

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x86/MorphOS 4.0

"Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise." -hyperionmp

"I've been a supporter of "REACTION" GUI because is an Amiga OS thing." -Snuffy

"I personally prefer a vision of do'ers and makers rather than

@ssolie

It's never off-topic to talk about the Amiga in an Amiga forum. If you want to discuss something else exclusively, I'm sure there are other places on the internet where you can do just that.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@AMiGR

Quote:

AMiGR wrote: @samface Quote: [quote]"That they share backwards compatibility with software written for AmigaOS3.x is secondary to that and is also the only thing they have in common." I hope that was meant as a joke. If not, well check other threads (let us not go OT even more) and if you where, use a smiley next time It was no joke.

Oh dear...[/quote]

Killer argument, how could anyone argue with that? No, really. HOW could anyone possibly argue with that?

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Talking about Amiga is one thing, your innuendos and the way you always step your foot on the door is another... btw, it's 'General Computing and Technology' for a reason...

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@IonMane

It got to do only with the way you worded up... I didn't quite figured it out...

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@Cheese

Quote:

Cheese wrote: @samface Oh, no-one will argue OS4 is the real AmigaOS, and other OS's are (in name) just clones. But what's in a name?

I just said what was in it, didn't I?

Quote:

It takes either a fool or a core dev to see big differences.

Nope, just common sense. Names are used for differentiating things that would otherwise be easy to be confused with each other if we used the same terminology.

Quote:

And I stand by my point: any (new) HW platform that will run a NG Amiga OS has my blessing...and benefits the whole amiga scene (as in: what's left of it )

Yeah, I've heard this mantra before, but I still fail to see, for example, how it would be benefitial for the AmigaOS if MorphOS would become a huge commercial success (like that would ever happen). On the contrary, I do think that would leave the AmigaOS with a stronger competitor and less of a chance to survive which in the end would leave us consumers with one alternative less to choose from. Again, I'd say it would be wiser to focus on anything that could possibly raise the product demand in the Amiga market and even wiser if it would come in the shape of an official Amiga since the success of the official Amiga is the only thing that would actually benefit everyone, including the competition.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

Killer argument, how could anyone argue with that? No, really. HOW could anyone possibly argue with that?

Had AmigaOS4 been an OS with no backwards compatibility, you can be fairly certain that 90% of the users that are here today would had never jumped in. So much for compatibility being of secondary importance.

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