@keisangi

Great IDEA!

GOOD WORK!

Tuxedo.

_________________
Simone"Tuxedo"Monsignori, Perugia, ITALY.

@TetiSoft

at least, at the os4 initial install, when the fisrt window appear and ask you to select your language, i -saw- hebraic, arabic, and other non latin language displayed in there. (iirc, even some asian ones?). japanese wasn't there but theses were.
so i based my affirmations on that point.
.. if theses was only pictures, which i don't think it was, why japanese wasn't displayed correctly? only weird garbage like :#$%!*
so i saw arabic and hebraic and some others.. if theses was just pics, then , my bad ..

thanks for your reply anyway.

i understand os4 have missing things to make it happen right now ..
i'm gonna look at the hints you gave me in your previous post.
maybe something could be done ?

anyway,
if at any point os4 is in need for japanese translation, just let me know.
i'll gladly do it.

i can translate.. but i'm not sure i have the knowledge to implement the whole support in os4 myself.. just like that.
i'll have a look at the localisation.doc and other thing you mentionned, but
I think internationalization in a plus for an OS.
my idea was based on the thought that hyperion would finish to add the support.
after all since it's in the interest of the OS.. and they already started to do it ... i naturaly assumed they would finish implementing support.
I'm already offering doing the translation for free. i can't take the whole thing on my own.. i'll need help from higher competent ppl here..
I have no particular knowledge in this area, i mean implementing a new language on a system. I can do the translation.. I just speak japanese that's all..
So f anyone have question about Japanese, it's phonetic system (kana) and the way they gets translated in kanji (japanese symbols) i can help anytime.


if someone have knowledge in unicode, and think all this is feasible on current os4, please pm me, or /query me on irc.
mail is keisangi (at) free.fr if needed.

thanks everyone for your interest.

Last edited by keisangi on 13-Jan-2007 at 04:36 AM.
Last edited by keisangi on 13-Jan-2007 at 04:34 AM.
Last edited by keisangi on 13-Jan-2007 at 04:17 AM.

@all

btw, if someone have the knowlege and the interest into looking at building unicode , charset, whatever japanese support on OS4, maybe this link could help?

http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Japanese.html

it seems to have some fonts, and links to more details docs (look at the bottom)


thanks

@keisangi

> at least, at the os4 initial install, when the fisrt window appear and ask
> you to select your language, i -saw- hebraic, arabic, and other non latin
> language displayed in there. (iirc, even some asian ones?).
> japanese wasn't there but theses were.
> so i based my affirmations on that point.
> .. if theses was only pictures, which i don't think it was, why japanese
> wasn't displayed correctly? only weird garbage like :#$%!*
> so i saw arabic and hebraic and some others.. if theses was just pics,
> then , my bad ..

The Locale prefs editor displays latin, cyrillic, greek and hebrew languages.
The hebrew support is experimental only and probably useless because hebrew
is written from right to left.

It also displays latin, cyrillic, greek, hebrew, thai and arabic country names
(including "Nihon" which is japan in latin text). You have to use a font which
includes thai glyphs (e.g. Tahoma, Arial Unicode, Bitstream CyberBase or the
"Fixed" X11 font which comes with OS4) to see something else than outlined
rectangles for the thai name of thailand.

All supported arabic, cyrillic, greek, hebrew, latin and thai charsets are
8bit charsets which are a superset of US-ASCII and also include the C1 control
codes from 0x80 to 0x9F. Its impossible to fit the characters needed for east
asian languages into such an 8bit charset, and the OS4 languages, charsets and
countries dont include any east asian language like chinese, japanese, korean
or taiwanese.

Thanks for your offer to help, I'll eventually come back to that in future.
However, we'd need internal OS4 support for multibyte charsets first, and
its not likely that this will happen in the next few weeks...

@keisangi

Subarashii!

(i'm a great fan of japan for a view weeks because of the very nice language - not that i need a OS4 menu in japan so or could contribute anything)

@keisangi

Thanks for the link, added it to my hotlist

You should be able to install those japanese fonts with TypeManager
and to use them to display japanese text when its encoded in
UTF-7, UTF-8, UTF-16 or UTF-32. Install the font, doubleclick on the
installed font, then select the japanese text file instead of the default
sample text, and TypeManager should display it. However, this and AmiPDF
(eventually AmiGS too) are AFAIK the only parts of OS4 which can display
japanese.

@TetiSoft

indeed i'm able to display some japanese sample text through typemanager ! :)
that's great ..
now i'm gonna try using ibrowse with the newly installed font see how it work :)

so finaly, os4 can display japanese text, if the correct fonts are installed?
do there's a need to start translating? i could use a linux box, and start the translation, all in unicode ..

ok, i try ibrowse now :)

What about Japanese filenames? Does there not need to be some kind of low-level support in the filesystem itself?

Furthermore, how will the entry of characters be handled - will there be any kind of hiragana-->kanji automatic look-up, as with other operating systems?

Cheers,
James
x

@keisangi

Quote:

indeed i'm able to display some japanese sample text through typemanager ! :) that's great ..

Nice to read that

Quote:

so finaly, os4 can display japanese text, if the correct fonts are installed?

I've already written that TypeManager, AmiPDF and eventually AmiGS are the
only known parts of OS4 which are able to display text which is encoded in a multibyte charset.

Quote:

do there's a need to start translating? i could use a linux box, and start the translation, all in unicode ..

I've already written that OS4 doesnt support languages which are written in
multibyte charsets. Its possible to create catalogs in UTF-8 but this would
be wasted work because locale.library would be unable to find a suitable 8bit charset for mapping that catalog files, all non-ASCII characters would be
displayed as question marks in all applications.

Quote:

ok, i try ibrowse now :)

Did a few tests and it seems it doesnt understand Shift-JIS and EUC-JP.
It is able to display web pages in all 8bit charsets which are known to OS4,
I've played a bit with google.com which offers lots of languages. Greek and
arabic are displayed, thai doesnt work because Google uses windows-874 which
is *not* a charset officially registered at IANA, it would work with TIS-620...

Hebrew doesnt work with Google because IBrowse doesnt understand the ISO-8859-8-I variant, ISO-8859-8 would probably work (but left to right).

IBrowse also seems to understand UTF-8 but it seems that its unable to use
more than one 8bit charset font for a web page so on most UTF-8 pages you
see "?" for everything outside ISO-8859-1, even the Euro sign is missing.

Oh, and it seems to forget to tell OS4 that the buttons on the web pages
should be displayed with the charset of the web page, e.g. the greek and russian (cyrillic) Google pages show buttons with latin glyphs.

@jmbattle

Quote:

What about Japanese filenames? Does there not need to be some kind of low-level support in the filesystem itself?

Up to AmigaOS 3.1 you could choose between US-ASCII and ISO-8859-1 filenames
("FastFileSystem" and "FastFileSystem International"), the default was ISO-8859-1, and AmigaOS itself was distributed with ISO-8859-1 file names (LOCALE:Languages/français.language).

Then H&P distributed locale updates for their AmigaOS versions which allowed
the user to install custom non-standard fonts in custom non-standard charsets
which were not registered at IANA and they missed to add any kind of charset
support to the OS. As result, the user could switch to greek and cyrillic fonts
and was no longer able to correctly display the filename of the french language
driver.

In OS4 this issue is still not fixed, for now, dont use non-ASCII characters
in file names. I've tried to ensure that no non-ASCII file names are placed on the CD, but I only fixed the OS filenames, not the filename of the MUI global prefs file.

Asking for japanese file names without a japanese language driver and before even ISO-8859-1 file names are fully supported is a bit early IMHO...

Quote:

> Furthermore, how will the entry of characters be handled - will there be any > kind of hiragana-->kanji automatic look-up, as with other operating systems?

Asking for japanese text input before even UTF-8 text input is possible is a
bit early IMHO...

@TetiSoft

after i added the sazanami ttf font in typemanager, i could see this:
http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese2.jpg
http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese.jpg

so i guess, only missing thing is a valid charset?

edit:
additional screenshot of amipdf:
http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese3.jpg

Last edited by keisangi on 13-Jan-2007 at 02:19 PM.

@keisangi

Slightly OT, but my understanding is that pagestream will display those fonts, but you would need to enter each character seperately using the insert character option (ctrl-Z)

I haven't actually tried it myself yet, because I have scanned some 600 kanji and converted them to .dr2d files to use in a dictionary I am compiling.

Once I get time I will play around with those fonts in Pagestream and see what happens.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

Japan rullez \(^_^)/

_________________
www.brevis-design.de

@Swoop

nice, let me know how it goes :)
do you know "edict" ? it's a freely usable english japanese dictionary made by mr jim breen. it is quite complete, there's also a variant for names, computer terms, medical terms, law, japanese places names.. and of course the basic one.. edict.

edict comes in lots of format and encodings.. including unicode,euc,jis..
it's very useful. maybe you could convert it to have it working on the amiga.
since you were speaking of japanese english dictionary ..

here's a link to get a copy to use offline:
ftp://ftp.monash.edu.au/pub/nihongo/00INDEX.html

here's a link to use it online directly:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html

@keisangi

Quote:

after i added the sazanami ttf font in typemanager, i could see this: http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese2.jpg http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese.jpg

You managed to display the builtin default latin sample text as UTF-16BE and UTF-16LE encoded text. Just by accident this resulted in some japanese glyphs being displayed. Next time, read what I told you, and select a japanese text file encoded in UTF-7, UTF-8, UTF-16 or UTF-32 as sample text, then TypeManager will eventually display something useful The button for the file requester is somewhere at the top left of the sample window, and TypeManager has builtin popup help.

Quote:

so i guess, only missing thing is a valid charset?

And how do you think its possible to store all japanese characters in the
range 0xA1 to 0xFF of an 8bit charset? As written several times, OS4 can only
use 8bit charsets, the only known parts of OS4 which can display multibyte
charsets are TypeManager and AmiPDF and eventually AmiGS.

@TetiSoft

sorry, i didn't understand what you meant fully.
thanks for the 2nd explanation ;)
i tryed and it work very well:

http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese4.jpg

the japanese text is perfectly displayed, it read:
" i can eat glass, and it doesn't hurt" ;)
lol

well, so GREAT to see os4 displaying japanese !!!!
where's the bananaS ??! :)

@tetisoft


So now i can use typemanager as a way to display any utf8 japanese document on amiga. I typed myself this text from my pc, saved the file as uft8, exported it on the amiga and it works perfectly :)

http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese5.jpg

the text says: AmigaOS4 can display japanese text! :)

it's full japanese support. everything is there: kana and kanji.
so that makes antoher enabled app that displayed japanese on os4:
amipdf/amigs and typemanager.

..so i could even save japanese html pages and read it through type manager, and any other text .. while it's not -that- comfortable, it's better than nothing, i'd say i'm pretty happy :)

Last edited by keisangi on 13-Jan-2007 at 04:07 PM.
Last edited by keisangi on 13-Jan-2007 at 03:59 PM.

@all


typemanager reading a file:

http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/os4japanese6.jpg


i wish notepad could do it..
and ibrowse too

@TetiSoft

Quote:

OS4 requires an 8bit charset where the range 0 - 160 is identical toISO-8859-1 as system default charset. If the remaining range 161 - 255 isnot large enough for all non-ASCII characters needed to write yourlanguage, you have to wait until OS4 supports multibyte charsets, sorry.This excludes e.g. Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese.----snip----So sorry, but supporting japanese is not possible yet and we dont need japanesetranslators ATM.

I've been meaning to ask you about some documents. In System/Typemanager there are two utf-8 files, utf-8-demo.txt and utf-8-demo2.txt. The latter was particularly interesting for the line reading:

Japanese: ç§ã¯ã¬ã©ã¹ãé£ã¹ããã¾ããããã¯ç§ãå·ã¤ãã¾ããã

Something else I read--but can't find today--seemed to suggest that if I downloaded .ttf and .otag files for a relevant font I might be able to make such a line readable, so I tried it. Of course it couldn't work even if just because of the lack of the necessary 16bit charset, but then what in the world are those demo docs for?

I (for JIStoJi) and others who wrote Japanese handling programs for classic Amiga managed to sort of fake 16bit character sets. Is it really that hard to do for real?

Meanwhile I'll look into mapping JIS as in ISO-2022-JP to UTF-8 (but not very soon, in case someone else wants to beat me to it. Hint, hint!)

@kilaueabart

yes, it works, it's easy:

1st you need a japanese ttf font, i've put one on my site (the sazanami fonts), feel free to use it, but i think it's not the best choice: they are big 10mb lha! (some other japanese ttf font should be a lot more reasonable size, i think it's just the sazanami in partiular which are that big.)
i know they are nice fonts i used them many time on linux, so i gave them a try. but i think any other japanese ttf font would work.
that said if you really want to test with the sazanami font here they are:

http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/sazanami.lha

once unarchived the fonts somewhere, you open up typemanager, and select the drawer where you put them, typemanager will scan it, find the fonts, and offer the option to install them. you do so. once the font are installed, you select sazanami font in type manager right window, where all the installed fonts are listed, then, you can use typemanager "sample text" button to select a unicode encoded file to display unicode japanese text. you can find some here:

http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/amiga.txt
http://keisangi.free.fr/amiga/4jwords-utf8.utf

nothing else needed. you install a japanese font on os4 and typemanager can display japanese through it's "sample text" button.
(the .otag stuff will be automatically created by typemanager, when you install the japanese ttf fonts. nothing more required: you get the fonts, you install them throught typemanager and you're done.)

btw, japanese ttf font can display both japanese and english / latin letters.

if you need more details feel free to ask :)


eit: typo

Last edited by keisangi on 16-Jan-2007 at 04:17 AM.
Last edited by keisangi on 16-Jan-2007 at 04:16 AM.
Last edited by keisangi on 16-Jan-2007 at 04:13 AM.
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