@umisef

Quote:

Which means there is no "the judge rules". Either the parties agree, voluntarily, or it all goes back to where it was before the settlement conference was requested, as if that conference had never happened.

In which case, the loser will be the one who runs out of money first with the other party only slightly better off. A-Inc could have made more money than Hyperion from OS4 by developing and selling an up-to-date browser, office suite, etc. for inexpensive OS4 hardware. It all seems to be more about ego than finances to me.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

@umisef

details, details... my point is still that if after walking out of there, they release something too soon, they could end up right back in hot water. That's why I don't expect to see anything on sale until next year.

@Dandy

Sounds like a step in the right direction to me.

Like I've been saying since the case started, the only reasonable course of action is reaching some settlement and it looks like they're finally willing to do just that

Hopefully AInc will agree to let Hyperion handle all decisions pertaining to the OS design/marketing/hardware as they're in a better position to make the right calls, while in exchange AInc gets a decent per-copy and per-machine royalty for the use of their trademark.

That way everybody wins.

_________________
AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

@umisef

Quote:

Why? The value of something is not how much it cost to develop it, but how much money you can expect to make from it in the future

That's exactly why I wrote that Amiga Inc. would probably have to offer considerably more to Hyperion than the cost of development to date. If you invested in something, you did it because you wanted to make profit, which means you expect your investments to be returned and you expect to make money on top of that, to make the investments worthwhile.

@AlexC

Quote:

Hopefully AInc will agree to let Hyperion handle all decisions pertaining to the OS design/marketing/hardware as they're in a better position to make the right calls, while in exchange AInc gets a decent per-copy and per-machine royalty for the use of their trademark.

Quite! In my view each side wanted it all and thought they could get it all, now they know that that is not so. This is how I summed one set of possibilities, posted elsewhere:

1. The outcome of the two cases is sufficiently in question, and the
expenses sufficiently formidable that both sides may be motivated
to reach the settlement they should have achieved years ago.

2. For Hyperion the issues are unfettered development of OS4 and the
right to place it on whatever hardware they choose.

3. For Amiga Inc the issues are clear title to their Amiga IP and the
right to an income from it.

4. Given the record of Amiga Inc. it is unlikely that Hyperion will
be pleased with any agreement that leaves the management of
critical elements like hardware licensing for OS4.x in their
hands.

5. A successful outcome for all parties might consist of a contract
to replace the 2001 contract in which:

1.   Amiga Inc is the acknowledged successor of Amino in the matter of Amiga IP
   
   
2.   Amiga Inc receives hardware royalties off machines sold to run OS4.x, and royalties off sales of OS4.1+
   
   
3.   Hyperion has the rights to Amiga OS4.x and the rights to use Amiga name and appropriate trademarks.
   
   
4.   Hyperion has the right to licence hardware for it's OS subject to royalties as in b. above.
   
   
5.   Each side makes no claim on the other with respect to legal costs to date.
   

@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: @COBRA Yeah, but what really counts (getting OS4 off the dinosaur that is the AmigaOne) can't happen this year at all. Why? simple: Hyperion said that it takes about a month to port OS4 to a new PPC platform. If after mediation the judge rules that Hyperion is allowed to keep selling OS4, and then they demo OS4 running on the SAM440 in less than a month, Amiga Inc can drag them back to court for having illegally developed the SAM440 version of OS4 before mediation was complete. Trust me, we'll probably see a lot of announcements after mediation is complete (assuming the whole thing doesn't just collapse), but nothing on the market until around February.

No, Hyperion can have it developed already, they just can't sell it or announce it, but Rogue has said that 4.1 for other platforms was coming in the 4.1 thread.

Just the fact that 4.1 exists means they feel they can release it for other platforms as well since it implies they are acting as they own Amiga OS 4...per the contract...or should I say - have a perpetual license to it. Which means nothing is stopping them from releasing it to whatever platform they desire...

So I would say a SAM port could be on sale before the new year. However, I expect a 'classic' edition first...

@Xenic

Quote:

Xenic wrote: @umisef It all seems to be more about ego than finances to me.

"gimmie gimmie gimmie" is as far as Aincs finances go.

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

@Xenic

Quote:

Xenic wrote: @Dandy Quote: If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficiant for him!(Albert Einstein) It seems ironic that the man who signed a letter to President Roosevelt recommending the development of the Atomic bomb has such distain for the most innocuous military activity (marching).

But it just seems so.
Actually it demonstrates his ability to realise his own errors - which in turn is an indication for his intelligence...

Quote:

Xenic wrote: @Dandy Modern post-mortem analysis has discovered that it was Einstein who received his brain by accident. The area of his brain (operculum) responsible for speech, reading and writing was malformed; which may explain why he misspelled the word "sufficiant"

So your operculum must be deformed as well - or why did you misspell the word "distain"?


B.T.W. - the typo was my fault - not Einstein's.
But thanks for the hint - I immediately corrected it.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Lou

Quote:

...Rogue has said that 4.1 for other platforms was coming...

My, you do have a vivid imagination (or should I say, "amigination").

_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: @AlexC ... 3. For Amiga Inc the issues are clear title to their Amiga IP and the right to an income from it.

Which incarnation of AInc are you talking about - AInc(W) or AInc(D)?

From my POV AInc(D) have no right to anything, as the alledged transfer of rights from AInc(W) -> ITEC -> KMOS -> MKOS -> AInc(D) wasn't legally valid.

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: ... 5. A successful outcome for all parties might consist of a contract to replace the 2001 contract in which:   Amiga Inc is the acknowledged successor of Amino in the matter of Amiga IP

No - they're NOT. See above...

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote:   Amiga Inc receives hardware royalties off machines sold to run OS4.x, and royalties off sales of OS4.1+

Based on what rights?
The alledged transfer of rights from AInc(W) -> ITEC -> KMOS -> MKOS -> AInc(D) wasn't legally valid.

If you ask me, they're looking pretty naked - right-wise...

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: ... Effectively this will restore the good faith understanding of the original agreement and leave each side able to get on with their business. ...

As long as Pentti Kouri and McBill are involved there will be no such thing as "good faith".


Are you serious - you want the criminals of/behind AInc to be allowed to continue their bogus business practice?

How ill is that now?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

A settlement conference is about achieving an agreement that will see business resumed. If the positions you take, which many would agree with, are those put before the conference then to trial it goes. the conference would be terminated minutes after beginning. Hyperion and Eyetech are not so stupid as to travel all the way to Seattle to make an empty guesture.

When I said "Amiga Inc is the acknowledged successor of Amino in the matter of Amiga IP" that was to indicate a position that would have to be agreed if Hyperion were to get what they want. Why do you think both sides are happy to see Eyetech represented? - so that transfer can finally be made conditional on Hyperion having full rights to AmigaOS 4.x and the right to license hardware.
If the conference reaches agreement that becomes the new legal situation.

If the conference is to argue who is right or wrong, who is to blame, it will make no progress. The conference will only succeed if both sides can reach an agreement. Therefore I set out the barganing points.

Initially Amiga Inc, as distinct from Amino thought they had it all, but the entire legitimacy of their operation is obviously in question. Hyperion, for the same reason thought they could claim it all. If they still think they could why agree to a settlement conference? A jury can be a fickle animal. There is no guarantee what they will decide.

Noel

Last edited by NoelFuller on 29-Aug-2008 at 12:44 PM.

@All

If should anyone have sleeping problems all they have to do is come and read the war between Hyperion and Amiga Inc and the opinions of people about it and there sleeping problem should go away.

@Dandy

Quote:

So your operculum must be deformed as well - or why did you misspell the word "distain"?

I didn't. The word "disdain" would be more commonly used in a context like that of my statement. However, I think the secondary definition of "distain" applies as well. I think you missed my point. Einstein escaped to a country with a powerful military that could protect him when he was subjected to persecution in his former homeland. Some people dislike the police until they rescue them from criminals and dislike the military until they save their country from invasion. I just don't think hypocritical statements like Einstein's deserve quotation.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

@Dandy

I think the results of this "settlement conference" might have a profound psychological impact if there appears to be a obvious winner. It might indicate how a court case would likely go and hasten a settlement by the parties. So something might come of this after all.

_________________
X5000 / microA1(OS4.1 FE U2) / CodeBench / Imagine / Blender
Lightwave 2019 / Microsoft Visual C++

@Hypex

Lol Hypex!!!

Q!

"aLL RoAds LeAd ToO HoMe"

@thinkchip

One would hope now that these people see eye to eye, if not... the yello submarine will continue to sink...

Q!

"aLL RoAdS LeAd ToO HoMe"

@CodeSmith

Quote:

Yeah, but what really counts (getting OS4 off the dinosaur that is the AmigaOne) can't happen this year at all. Why? simple: Hyperion said that it takes about a month to port OS4 to a new PPC platform. If after mediation the judge rules that Hyperion is allowed to keep selling OS4, and then they demo OS4 running on the SAM440 in less than a month, Amiga Inc can drag them back to court for having illegally developed the SAM440 version of OS4 before mediation was complete. Trust me, we'll probably see a lot

Most of the hardware on the Sam440 is supported within the OS4 codebase including support for 4xx CPU's. So a Sam port should be quikcer than say one for YDL Powerstation or PS3.

If a settlement is reached in November and a licence granted for Sam440, Acube coudl start selling Sam with an OS4.1 licence key and ship the CD when it ready with a downloadable ISO possibly being available just before Christmas.

I think more people would be keener to shell out on the Sam if they OS4 was a dead cert rather than the gamble it at the moment.

Last edited by Rob on 29-Aug-2008 at 05:36 PM.

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote: @Lou Quote: ...Rogue has said that 4.1 for other platforms was coming... My, you do have a vivid imagination (or should I say, "amigination").

Yes, it's the drugs...
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4424&start=260#59504

@Xenic

Quote:

Xenic wrote: @Dandy Quote: So your operculum must be deformed as well - or why did you misspell the word "distain"? I didn't. The word "disdain" would be more commonly used in a context like that of my statement. However, I think the secondary definition of "distain" applies as well. I think you missed my point. Einstein escaped to a country with a powerful military that could protect him when he was subjected to persecution in his former homeland. Some people dislike the police until they rescue them from criminals and dislike the military until they save their country from invasion. I just don't think hypocritical statements like Einstein's deserve quotation.

Did he say this before or after he made this move, though? Maybe he said it in a time when he was a little more naive or something, and later realized that things where not that simple...

In any event, Einstein was a great man who accomplished great things... we shouldn't focus on his few flaws and mistakes...

_________________
"I love peacenicks, they're so easy to conquer." --Ivan J Ironfist, the Dictator

@Rob

Quote:

I think more people would be keener to shell out on the Sam if they OS4 was a dead cert rather than the gamble it at the moment.

Me included. If I want a Linux box I'd much rather buy an x86 one, which is both cheaper and better supported. A SAM440 that comes with an OS4 install disk is a different matter.