@fairlanefastback

Quote:

You did make a point of saying "tens of thousands".

Ok, maybe that was a mistake - if people are overly sensitive on my suggestion that OS4.1 could actually be a big success now there is new hardware for it.

The only reason I can see for it selling poorly would be if the price is too high - again something I mentioned and basically got told to f*** off if I didnt like it, then people question what I am doing here. Its no great surprise that the Amiga market is shrinking and 10,000 is an offensive number if thats the attitude some of people still left here. It feels like its becoming a very closed and insular.

Regarding ACK and Amiga Inc - I dont speak for either company - you can choose to infer whatever you like from my comment or lack of comment (is that how FUD works?).

More than anything else I am hoping that the future for the Amiga has a solid foundation to build on. I have direct access to probably the largest group of software developers (many of whom fondly remember the Amiga) than anyone else here - I dont want to start evangelising (again!) about the Amiga only to find its future blocked yet again by legal action or only be available on one solitary high-priced motherboard. There is nothing malicious about that, its just its a sensitive subject because its taken so long and so much blood, sweat, money and tears to get this far...

@Benji

It is a sensitive subject, everyone is entitled to their opinions... the long and the short of it is... to grow beyond the community... there needs to be a paradigm shift in the way the Amiga business as a whole comes together and forms a united front, so the "wider market" knows what the f**k is going on...

Maybe the main hardware resellers and hardware manufacturers need to form an organisation that brings all corners of the community together under one single umbrella organisation. Each business is essentially a "unit" of the organisation that can run individually, but united with regards to developments and press releases including cohesive marketing strategies too advertise effectively outside the community...

So the organisation would then set - as agreed by all the affiliate companies - standards for the various categories of Amiga hardware such as Amiga Classic, A1, Sam - and of course software too, with quality control and standards to adhere too... start bringing some cohesion back... I think this would build momentum...

Essentially you would have an organisation or group chaired by the active business people in the community, ACube, Elbox, Hyperion - also individuals who have contributed... Minimig Case, Relic, Natami crew... etc.

(On a side note to Natami, there was a suggestion Natami could actually end up being a console too, as it would be open to developers and bedroom coders... unlike the PS3, which could have been phenomenal, not just as a console but as a computer too, if Linux and the rest of the system were open to community contribution... of course it is not to the folly of Sony.)

So, ultimately, you have a brand called Amiga - what does it stand for and what categories of hardware and software are available? What can it do for me, and why should people outside the community be interested in it?

As mentioned before, how can the internet play a part in expanding the Amiga name through additional services that can make money, internet based or what have you...

A steering committe and/or organisation should exist that takes these energies and directs and focuses them in re-building the base Amiga once had... it is a big task but it can be done...

Start off with an agreed Amiga "constitution"... what is the aim of the brand, what will be produced under it, its target audience, the products associated with it, online presence etc etc... a constitution for the Amiga and its corresponding objectives would be adhered too by all company participants that make up the umbrella organisation...

You can also have a turn based director of this organisation, each participating company/organisation etc would take turn a leading the organisation and overseeing that the aims and objectives set out are achieved with some reasonable flexibility built in...

"Amiga Inc" won't do it, so the organisations, companies and individuals that have basically kept oxygen circulating in the system would need to take charge and lead a new era... and to do that you need an organisation that can nit all innovations and developments together under one roof!

Anyway, some thoughts...

What do you think the suggests above, are they practical?

Q!

"all RoAds LeAd ToO hOMe"

Last edited by QuBe on 19-Sep-2008 at 01:04 PM.
Last edited by QuBe on 19-Sep-2008 at 10:25 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 19-Sep-2008 at 10:23 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 19-Sep-2008 at 10:21 AM.

@Benji

I think you misunderstood, it is not suggesting that it may sell 10000 copies that's the problem, the problem is that you made a poll with such limited options, and most people would have an opinion, which is not in your options. If you really wanted to know what people think, then you would have a made a poll with options like:

"OS4 on the Sam will..."
1. Never be sold as AInc will prevent it
2. Be sold for a short time before AInc will prevent it
3. Be sold regardless of what AInc says
4. Be sold with the blessings of AInc
5. I don't know

If you made a poll with the above options, that would be an objective poll, because it covers most possibilities. So if you want to, go ahead and make a poll like that, and you will see that the reactions you receive will be much better.

@Rogue

Quote:

Well, what is the point in offering unrealistic options then? I'm sorry, but no, I don't believe your pretense of realism or genuine interest. If you had wanted serious replies, you would have made a serious poll, but you didn't, and that for me is a clear indication that your primary concern was to get people worried

You really don't help yourself by being so selective about the points you address in a thread. Yes the Poll options were clearly flawed, and are not even mutually exclusive.

However there are many people who are appear so blindly happy about his announcement that they are happy to now go and purchase a SAM simply for OS 4.1. So what happens if two weeks later the courts over-rule this? Or indeed this is the resultant last-resort attempt to resolve a financial crises and Hyperion go-under in a few weeks?

All we have then are another 100 or so OS4.x capable machines (the owners of which will be pretty p*ssed off)?

While I regard the SAM announcement as a positive step, there is still a lot of mystery surrounding circumstances. There is no official word from Amiga Inc that this has their blessing, and there is no reason being given by Hyperion as to their reasoning that all of a sudden they have the authority to grant such a license.

Considering all the above it's hardly surprising that some people are asking questions, and you have to expect a certain amount of mud-slinging to be thrown into the equation.

Now I am pretty sure that none of the (important) points in this post will be addressed by yourself. I'm sure you know of the reasoning to make this release now, but are legally unable to comment. Which makes me wonder why you would get involved in a thread such as this in the first place?

@Benji

I can't find any Sam that cost £600. Where you find that ?. Is that covered in GOLD ?.

If you were quick, there was Sam's summer sale for 299euro. That's £227.

Now there is the BIG boards left, 667Mhz ones. And they are £350. It's still NOT £600 :)

Not even with the SAM OS4.1 at £99.xx :)

You couldn't even get an A1200 that price back in the days.

Last edited by Speedy on 19-Sep-2008 at 01:02 PM.

@Pleng

Quote:

However there are many people who are appear so blindly happy about his announcement that they are happy to now go and purchase a SAM simply for OS 4.1.

And what's wrong with that?

Quote:

So what happens if two weeks later the courts over-rule this?

First of all you know very well that courts take ages to decide on anything, secondly the judge already ruled that Hyperion can in the meantime continue business as usual, and that's just what they've been doing ever since, releasing updates for the AmigaOne, releasing 4.0 for classic, then 4.1 for AmigaOne, and now 4.1 for Sam. The worst thing that could happen is that in the far future AInc would get the rights to OS4, and then they would have the power to discontinue the product, but I don't see why that should stop hundreds (or thousands) of people from enjoying OS4.1 on new hardware for many years to come...

Last edited by COBRA on 19-Sep-2008 at 01:21 PM.

@Speedy

Quote:

I can't find any Sam that cost £600. Where you find that ?. Is that covered in GOLD ?.

Where are they £350?

SAM 440 - £439.99

OS4.1 - £99.99

Total so far - £539.98 - plus add a case/PSU/hard-drive/DVD. You probably already have a KVM, so the minimum you need to boot/install/run is easily £600. Thats already been agreed in other threads - or did you just want to join in picking holes in things without a reasoned point to make?

Quote:

You couldn't even get an A1200 that price back in the days.

Er - we will just have to agree to differ on that (irrelevant point) - mine was £399 I think.

@COBRA

Quote:

And what's wrong with that?

Exactly what I have said plus the points Pleng made. Nobody wants to take one step forward and two steps back when you find that 4.1 is a dead end (which I am NOT claiming it is, just saying without more knowledge we cant make an informed decision) - or you end up with hardware and a beta OS (which it currently is stated as being), or no OS at all. Especially if you just paid £440 to £600. So unless there is clarification "a number" of us are going to hold onto our money and go without. Some of us are a bit more cautious. Tough for us eh?!

@Speedy

You have forgotten that the 533Mhz version is discontinued and not available and all the prices on Acube's website exclude VAT.

For the 667Mhz version, 465 EUR + 20% Italian VAT = £440 GBP

Last edited by amigakit on 19-Sep-2008 at 02:38 PM.

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@Benji

Don't talk £, they too expensive :D

Register as firm, and you get the VAT back :) It's really easy :P Just do it. Cancel your firm when you don't need it anymore :)

Any freak have cases/ram/harddisks all over the floor. I bet you have too. Or you might have a PC. So unscrew motherboard of that one. Throw it into nearest trashcan, and you got Tower, HD etc. :P

Calc that up. 465Euro a sam had cost you. (And most likely, you got some outdated Amiga around. Sell that off, now you don't need it anymore)

(Now i'll just wait for several attacks on me :P)

@Benji

Quote:

Its no great surprise that the Amiga market is shrinking and 10,000 is an offensive number if thats the attitude some of people still left here. It feels like its becoming a very closed and insular.

Well you did say tens of thousands plural, which means at a minimum means two tens, i.e. 20,000. But lets deal with just 10,000 now like you are saying. Its not an "offensive number", its just a highly unlikely one. To use such a number smacks of a mocking tone. I think very few of us want a closed and insular community. But at the same time who wants to hear someone mocking the limited success we are more likely to get with an outrageous number in a poll with two choices? Thats how it came off IMHO.

Quote:

Regarding ACK and Amiga Inc - I dont speak for either company - you can choose to infer whatever you like from my comment or lack of comment (is that how FUD works?).

Why not just explain yourself? Are you actually proud of spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD)?? In a thread about the first new workable hardware for OS 4 in ages you throw out something to make people wonder if they should instead hold off and save their money for a new Power User Amiga (running I guess OS5?) next month?

Quote:

I dont want to start evangelising (again!) about the Amiga only to find its future blocked yet again by legal action or only be available on one solitary high-priced motherboard. There is nothing malicious about that, its just its a sensitive subject because its taken so long and so much blood, sweat, money and tears to get this far...

Holding off on evangelizing to the outside world away from the active community is probably smart at the moment. But your posts have been on a board specifically populated by the active community. And most on this board are probably well aware that no apparent Amiga, Inc. approval for 4.1 on SAM could spell trouble. Why stir the pot more with planting a seed about ACK machine availability next month that people should possibly hold out for instead? A machine (if it even exists) that would have no legal entanglements. Some folks may hope you know some inside info from your original post and hold off purchasing SAM with 4.1 then that otherwise would not have.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2008 at 03:02 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2008 at 02:59 PM.

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@Benji

Quote:

Exactly what I have said plus the points Pleng made. Nobody wants to take one step forward and two steps back when you find that 4.1 is a dead end (which I am NOT claiming it is, just saying without more knowledge we cant make an informed decision)

Look, I don't think many people expect OS4 to dominate the world or anything like that, it's never going to become a platform as big as Windows, and most likely will never even get close to MacOS. There are a million reasons not to invest into an OS4 system, and in my opinion the lawsuit is not the biggest one. Take for example the lack of applications available, the relatively low spec of the hardware, the relatively high price of it, etc. Everyone knows what the problems are but that does not stop people from enjoying OS4.1 on new hardware, and they also know that these problems will not be resolved overnight, however much effort is being made by many people to resolve these problems. If you buy an OS like this, you take a risk. But saying that one shouldn't buy a Sam with OS4 because there's a risk that some day it will no longer be produced/supported, is like saying that (in case for example Ferrari was near bankrupt and in a lawsuit) one shouldn't buy a Ferrari. However you will find that most people will find that even more of a reason to buy one, knowing that they may not have a chance to get one later on.

@all

Seems that reading comprehension isn't all it used to be.

Benji:
Quote:

There is a little bit of hope left that we might even get a "Power User" motherboard from ACK next month... Stranger things have happened.

My response:
Quote:

At the risk of betraying a confidence, but weighing that against the users' right to know the truth at this juncture: That is not going to happen.

And yet we go back to discussing it again...
fairlanefastback:
Quote:

ACK's track record makes that nearly impossible. ACK's treatment of Kneedeep in not returning his A1 makes it morally questionable to buy from that company anyway. And what pray tell will run on it? It would appear nothing.

And again....
fairlanefastback:
Quote:

Also you spoke of there being a chance of the ACK "Power User" board coming out next month. Should people take that to mean you have been conversing with Amiga Inc. directly already yourself recently? Where is this info from?

And again....
Benji:
Quote:

Regarding ACK and Amiga Inc - I dont speak for either company - you can choose to infer whatever you like from my comment or lack of comment (is that how FUD works?).

And again....
fairlanefastback:
Quote:

Why stir the pot more with planting a seed about ACK machine availability next month that people should possibly hold out for instead?

Folks...please read my post and accept it at face value. Do not put off your chance of obtaining SAM and OS4.1 based on the posts made about ACK, etc.
Just accept the fact that Adam wishes everyone well, which is about the most mature thing anyone has said to me on this topic.

#6

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@Benji

Quote:

Benji wrote: @Pleng I started the thread to prompt some theories into what is really going on - those three are actually the conclusions I came to - the first being positive and resulting in sales making AI and Hyperion happy, the third being the path to another lawsuit. Two would also be an interesting possibility...

sales make Ainc happy? lol

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@amigakit

Quote:

For the 667Mhz version, 465 EUR + 20% Italian VAT = £440 GBP

+ OS4.1 = £550, so spread over a year that's about £1.50 a day.

@COBRA

Quote:

, and most likely will never even get close to MacOS.

Considering that one of the main authors of OS4 was just berating someone as a sh*t-stirrer for having the entirely unrealistic poll option of OS4.1 selling "tens of thousands" of copies, while Mac OS is being bundled with about 25,000-30,000 new Macs every day, plus upgrades, I don't think there is any "most likely" about it....

@umisef

lol

Actually now I think about it didnt Amiga Inc offer $2 million? Isnt that just over 10,000 copies of OS4...

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @amigakit Quote: For the 667Mhz version, 465 EUR + 20% Italian VAT = £440 GBP + OS4.1 = £550, so spread over a year that's about £1.50 a day.

It's like you try tell somebody to quit smokin' :D

@COBRA

Quote:

by COBRA on 19-Sep-2008 13:20:08 @Pleng Quote: However there are many people who are appear so blindly happy about his announcement that they are happy to now go and purchase a SAM simply for OS 4.1. And what's wrong with that?

I've pointed that out in the post you're quoting for. People buying the SAM in the hope that the wait is over and AmigaOS development is secure (people WILL make that assumption based on the announcement - people believe what they want to) could end up shelling out a huge amount of money for a system, assuming it will row and new apps will be developed, just to find that within weeks or months it is discontinued again.

Not expecting people to question where this announcement came from is just silly.

Quote:

secondly the judge already ruled that Hyperion can in the meantime continue business as usual, and that's just what they've been doing ever since, releasing updates for the AmigaOne, releasing 4.0 for classic, then 4.1 for AmigaOne, and now 4.1 for Sam

What rubbish. If that is the case why did Hyperion release OS4 for SAM around the same time, or shortly after the Classic version? If you believe this is Hyperion just going about their business as normal then in fact they should be heavily criticized for stalling the launch for so long.

I don't believe this is just business as normal. I believe that something has happened. Whatever it is may be good or may be bad. I suspect it is good because I don't see anybody wanting to p*ss off A Inc so close to a mediation trial. But at the same time we don't know what's lead to this interesting development. For whatever reason Hyperion can't, or simply don't want to, tell us what it is. Which is why I feel representatives of the company should be a little less defensive when somebody questions it, no matter how much that particular person appears to be stirring or throwing mud.

@number6

Quote:

Folks...please read my post and accept it at face value. Do not put off your chance of obtaining SAM and OS4.1 based on the posts made about ACK, etc. Just accept the fact that Adam wishes everyone well, which is about the most mature thing anyone has said to me on this topic.

Your risking betraying a confidence is all well and good to dispute someone else's words. But your voice has no reason to hold any more authority that Benji's on the subject that I am aware of. And even if it did the discussion is about why Benji chose to say what he did and its source. This discussion is not a contest about whether Benji is right and you are wrong about it or vice versa. And neither of you is disclosing what the background is of you saying what each of you did on the subject.

Quote:

Seems that reading comprehension isn't all it used to be.

Again, asking Benji why he said what he said and where he got the info to think it valid to say in the context he did has nothing to do with you proclaiming you have inside information otherwise. Its great to hear and all. I doubt almost anyone believes an ACK machine will ever come. If Benji's words would discourage anyone in getting SAM I suspect it would be a handful of people at most. But that dosen't mean we can't discuss the why of why he did it and the background of where he got info to say what he did. And if you are going to dispute it lets lay all the cards on the table (both of you).

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