Hello altogether,

since toying with the idea of either buying a SAM440ep flex (or getting for a PegII G4 or waiting for new AOS4 hardware with more power than the SAM) I'd like to know how the performance of the SAM looks like?

For example when using games like Q3, Netpanzers or Globulation?

Or what about the performance of UAE when playing games like MegaLoMania, SWIV, Speedball2 or NAPALM?

Is NAPALM still playable with the SAM?

I'm currently using AOS4 with my A4000PPC and cannot even compile my C++ project any more (too less memory, at least this should not be a problem with the SAM)!

So what about the SAM-performance compared to the old A4000 with AOS4 (should feel like flying, shouldn't it)?

Best Regards

@Reth

In a few words: Faster than any classic ppc amiga, slow machine for the needs of OS4.1 . You will also run out of GFX memory pretty fast.

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@Cool_amigaN

Just disable this transparency mode and you will be fine.

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AMIGA 1200 | Vampire 1200 II | 128 MB RAM | Indivision AGA Mk3 | 256 GB SD | AmigaOS 3.2.2
AMIGA 600 | Vampire 600 II | 128 MB RAM | Indivision ECS Mk3 | 256 GB SD | AmigaOS 3.2.2

@Cool_amigaN

But with the flex, can't you use a 128 or 256mb video card?

@jiminy

With sam440ep you can use a 9250 with 128 MB also. Don't have to wait for the flex edition. Os4.1 doesn't support 256 Mb gfx for now. Perhaps in a future update or in the OS4.1 final we will have that addition. It would be usefull imo if the developers could tell us if the 256 MB support is one of theirs next best thing so as, we the users, could buy a 9250 256MB for future reference.

edit: Remeber, when using a pci gfx card will run half the speed. The mini pci is 33 Hz whilst the on board 66!

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 14-Feb-2009 at 06:26 PM.

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@DJBase

I wouldn't have to disable anything if the machine was fast enough and adequate to run a full featured OS4.1? Wouldn't I?

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@Cool_amigaN

Right, but on the flex you can put the gfx card in the 66mhz pci slot. At least theoretically, since no one has seen one yet.

@Cool_amigaN

>>edit: Remeber, when using a pci gfx card will run half the speed. The mini pci is 33 Hz whilst the on board 66!


Mini PCI? Where is that? I can only see a full size PCI slot on my SAM...

Do you mean the exisitng PCI runs at 33 instead of 66?

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@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

It would be usefull imo if the developers could tell us if the 256 MB support is one of theirs next best thing so as, we the users, could buy a 9250 256MB for future reference.

There is nothing stopping you from buying the 256MB version as it is now, the worst that will happen is it will be recognised as a 128MB card. The fix is on the todo list, but there are other more pressing matters that have taken priority lately.

Simon

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Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@Reth
OS4.1 certainly feels like it's flying on Sam440. However for games things are not so rosy YET:

* I have seen Hyperion's good but old Q2 port, but due to some compatibility problems with OS4.1 it does not run using Warp3D (which would be fast). Instead it only runs in software mode, which for 640x480 was very smooth, for 800x600 was (EDIT) smooth-ish but not really usable for multiplayer, and for 1024x768 was not quite playable.

* Capehill's more modern Q2 port (based on Hyperion's GPLed code) is Warp3D only, and runs smoothly in 1024x768. HOWEVER due to an Warp3D/OS4.1 beta bug on Sam440, everything is green :( . I believe this is going to be fixed (??).

* The old Q3 port is unoptimised, has graphical problems, runs slowly & tends to crash.

* Capehill's more modern Q3 port (based on the above) works a lot better (at least with 16-bit display & textures), the frame rate seems acceptable (10-30 fps) with (EDIT) geometric detail set to Low & lighting set to Vertex (everything else at max), but walking was very slow for me for some reason. I guess it still needs tweaking & optimising...

I think these problems are mostly software issues, and so will hopefully be fixed eventually.


* Payback 68k runs quite well. PPC version doesn't like OS4.1.

* UAE runs very smoothly, but with version 0.8.28 I have not been able to get sound to play smoothly.

Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Feb-2009 at 12:19 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Feb-2009 at 12:18 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Feb-2009 at 08:02 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Feb-2009 at 07:44 PM.

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@Cool_amigaN Quote:

You will also run out of GFX memory pretty fast.

Not necessarily. It depends on what resolution you use (above 1024x768 or 1280x1024 may eat lots of memory), what depth (32-bit eats twice as much as 16-bit), and whether you have compositing enabled.

I have 1280x1024 16-bit, with compositing only on Workbench, and didn't notice any problems, but I haven't been pushing it hard. Probably I could use 32-bit without problem, but I didn't feel the need.

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@ChrisH

Any idea where Capehill's Quake version are available from? I've got a quick search on OS4Depot to no avail.

Last edited by amipal on 14-Feb-2009 at 08:36 PM.

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@amipal

On Capehill's homepage: http://capehill.kapsi.fi

@ChrisH

Quake 2: what are you doing to run quake 2 hyperion os4 version ?
on my sam i get a grim after starting and if i ignore it stands still with a green mouse coursor.

Payback: when i start the 68k comes first a grim after ignoring i can select the language, but then it starts playing movie and the complete systems hangs.

UAE: only runs 90% smoothly with disabled sound and all other options set to minium. I Use the SDL Version maybe thats the reason for the very poor performance. With enabled sound not ONE Game is really playable Speed => < 70%. Are you using the native os4 version? When i try this i get an error msg: "AMIGFX" Unsupported Pixel format and quits.


any ideas ?

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@IamSONIC Quote:

Quake 2: what are you doing to run quake 2 hyperion os4 version ?

Sorry, I don't have this version (would buy it if it worked). Tried it at an Amiga club meet. Other non-Sam (*) owners with OS4.1 had similar problems. (* = AmigaOnes & Classic OS4, hmm, I guess that means it has problems with the latest OS4.0 as well.)

Quote:

but then it starts playing movie and the complete systems hangs.

Take the CD out before you start playing Payback, then the movie does not try to run (and crash). Put the CD back in afterwards if you want music. I have set-up a small script which checks whether the Payback CD is in the drive, and ejects it if that is the case, before running Payback!

UAE: I could not get SDL version to work (crashed immediately), so I used the normal version, which IMHO should be faster anyway. BTW, this version crashes when you quit, if you have sound playing, and after a few runs it tends to crash OS4 - so better to run with sound off anyway.

Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Feb-2009 at 10:23 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Feb-2009 at 10:00 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Feb-2009 at 09:59 AM.

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@ZeroG

Thanks! I'll give them a try!

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@IamSONIC

Strange, i got the Payback demo to work without crashing??

What is so different with the fullversion I wonder?

Cheers.

As for UAE, a friend told me to increase the disk speed.

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@Gebrochen
Full version of Payback has the video introduction...

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@ChrisH

Quote:

Not necessarily. It depends on what resolution you use (above 1024x768 or 1280x1024 may eat lots of memory), what depth (32-bit eats twice as much as 16-bit), and whether you have compositing enabled.

True, on 1680x1050x32bit Sam is completely unusable, leaving you from 4-15 MB GFX Ram only with only few drawers and OWB open. The situation turns out good only when using 16bit (e.g same resolution, with same amount of opened drawers and OWB tabs I get around 35-38MBs). But using 16bit instead of 32 in 2009 isn't really a progress, instead is a step bakwards, correct?

Playing a mp3 from AmigaAmp and opening AmiCygnix will cause the sound to make some "scratches" because there isn't enough horspower in the CPU.

Playing a AVI from Mplayer and having OWB resized will cause the movie to pause for a few seconds.

"Heavy" SDL games running fullscreen (e.g free heroes of might and magic 2) give a slow feeling because the pointer doesn't follow the movement of mouse, same effect I had on my previous pc caused by SDL when using all the power of my cpu.

Cygnix is barely usable because is way too slow on SAM.

These were some examples I gave from using sam+Os4.1 from ordinary jobs and I am not even talking about using switcher3D or watching a dvd.

Sam gives the felling of a slow machine and it is if you think that it has an aged (is it four years old now?) and lowest end of its family cpus and not enough power GFX on board.

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@Cool_amigaN Quote:

Playing a mp3 from AmigaAmp and opening AmiCygnix will cause the sound to make some "scratches" because there isn't enough horspower in the CPU.

I have NO SUCH PROBLEMS with TuneNet & AmiCygnix. Either AmigaAmp is badly written (putting audio decoding/playing at a low priority), or your system has some problem. Either way it is not a Sam440 horsepower problem, so please don't jump to conclusions.

Quote:

Playing a AVI from Mplayer and having OWB resized will cause the movie to pause for a few seconds.

No such problem here either! Yes, MPlayer does *slow down*, while OWB recalculates what the page should look like, but this is hardly surprising - the CPU is doing two (demanding) things at once.

I am beginning to wonder if you are using PIO mode instead of DMA... That *might* explain this & your previous problem. Or maybe your HD doesn't support flushing correctly? (OS4 is fussy)

Quote:

Cygnix is barely usable because is way too slow on SAM.

I think this is the fault of AmiCygnix not being optimised properly yet. For example, all scrolling operations seem to be done by the CPU, rather than blitting using the graphics card, so it is unsurprising they are slow.

Look at how slow OWB scrolling was in the early days, and now look at how fast it is! OS4's Workbench would be DAMN slow if it scrolled using the CPU, yet it is really fast. In fact, if you look at "earlybird" versions OS4.0 for AmigaOnes (1GHz CPU and all), you'd find Workbench was painfully horrendously slow - because various OS functions were not optimised. Point made?

Once AmiCygnix is properly optimised, I expect it to be very usable, just like OWB .

Quote:

"Heavy" SDL games running fullscreen (e.g free heroes of might and magic 2) give a slow feeling

I can't comment on SDL games, since not tried, but most likely the SDL ports in question are not very optimised: Certainly CPU power is *a* cause, but if it can run Quake 2 in software fast, I think it can handle 2D ok - if the 2D software was written OK!

Last edited by ChrisH on 16-Feb-2009 at 09:58 PM.

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