Has anyone played/tinkered with xcore enough to say if it would be possible to build 68k emulator running on the xcore?

Some time ago there was brainstorming about building 68k accelerator by using a FPGA, but perhaps a 500Mhz singlecore xcore could do the same?

(with some additional RAM, perhaps also FPU could be emulated and emulations done with JIT)

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@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: Has anyone played/tinkered with xcore enough to say if it would be possible to build 68k emulator running on the xcore? ...

Hadn't it been stated that the strength of the xcore is I/O - not computing tasks like emulating?

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Dandy
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@Dandy

Yes.

It depends on what you compare it against.

2Ghz PPC is 100* faster than xcore, so that ppc is better for 68k emulation than xena.

But xcore surely is simpler to to weld in a classic Amiga than a PPC SoC.

But for real 68000 7Mhz machines, the capabilities of a 500mhz xcore might be more interesting in computation tasks.
If it could do 68000 14Mhz emulation + the needed CPU interface handling, I would be interested in getting that kind of accelerator for my old A2000. (

Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Mar-2010 at 07:29 AM.
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EDIT:
Hey - whats going on here? My posting always gets truncated!
About 2/3 is missing!

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Dandy ... But xcore surely is simpler to to weld in a classic Amiga than a PPC SoC.

Xcore in a classic Amiga?
Hmmm - I have Viper520 in my A500s (68020@28mHz), an 030 accelerator @ 40 mHz in my A1200 and a CSPPC (68060@50mHz/PPC604e@200mHz).
Not sure what I would need xcore in my classics for...

And if ever, I would prefer it to be soldered - not welded!

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: But for real 68000 7Mhz machines, the capabilities of a 500mhz xcore might be more interesting in computation tasks. If it could do 68000 14Mhz emulation + the needed CPU interface handling, I would be interested in getting that kind of accelerator for my old A2000. (<100¤ board)

You still use unaccelerated 68000 maschines? You must be a very patient person, me thinks...

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: (I think xcore might be able to do some 50mhz 68k emulation without JIT... or perhaps four threads doing the integer part, two threads doing motherboard interfacing, two threads handling some expansion I/Os)

That would still be inferior compared to my 030@40 Mhz...
And it would require it to be a Zorro card (or some sort of card for the A500 expansion port), I assume.

On an dual core AmigaOne X1000 I don't really see a valid reason to emulate an 68000 cpu @14-mHz...

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Dandy
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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

Xena should be è Quadcore at 100 Mhz

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@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: Has anyone played/tinkered with xcore enough to say if it would be possible to build 68k emulator running on the xcore?

The first overview of the specs told me it would not be possible. The XCore chip has only 64kB of own RAM and can not access X1000 mainboard Ram directly (according to the left out answer on the FAQ ).

64k would be to small for a C64 emulator, even if the chip would be fast enough to generate signals for a standard CRT maybe you can emulate the ZX81

Last edited by Arko on 17-Mar-2010 at 08:30 AM.

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@KimmoK
They do mention console emulation on a-eon website though:

Quote:

Capable of eight concurrent real-time threads with shared memory space, at up to 400 MIPS (about 6 68060s worth), Xena gives the X1000 a very flexible, very expandable co-processor. The uses are endless; control hardware, DSP functions, robotics, display - even SID chip and console emulators.

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@Seiya

Quote:

Seiya wrote: Xena should be è Quadcore at 100 Mhz

Nahhh - it certainly should be in the gHz range - not in the mHz range...

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
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@KimmoK

Quote:

it would be possible to build 68k emulator running on the xcore?

It makes no sense.

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@itix

Yeah, but what does.

I mean, would it be possible...

Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Mar-2010 at 09:49 AM.

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@Arko

I'm not thinking about x1000. But just a few ¤ xcore component on a simple board attached to real Amiga's CPU port/slot/header.

Basicly, the 68000 interpretive emulation code should be running in the 64k. Is it possible?
(what's the binary size of Petunia and Trance? basic 68000 emulator should be a lot smaller)

By default it could/should use existing RAM of the mainboard it is connected to.
Then, on a more advanced version, it could have RAM expansion on the accelerator board.

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@KimmoK

There are M68k emulators that compile to small enough binaries that squeezing it into the 64k of an XCore might be doable... Barely. Especially given that you'd need space to implement the system bus.

But I doubt it'd be fast enough to be worth the hassle.

Especially given that there are already suitable cores implemented for FPGAs, and there are FPGA's that are more than fast enough to beat at least the slower classic Amiga's thoroughly at quite low cost (see some of the discussions about the FPGAArcade board for example).

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@vidarh

Then, another viewpoint/matter.

IIRC modern FPGA's thend to have only 3Volt I/O, isn't it so?
Does xcore have similar or is it able to communicate also with 5V signals?

And IIRC, classic HW works on 5V signalling? So FPGA might need more extra components????

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@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @KimmoK Quote: it would be possible to build 68k emulator running on the xcore? It makes no sense.

Well it depends of if the Xcore is cheaper than a fpga chip

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@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Arko Basicly, the 68000 interpretive emulation code should be running in the 64k. Is it possible? (what's the binary size of Petunia and Trance? basic 68000 emulator should be a lot smaller)

That might be possible but what would you when you have the 68k in the XMOS ? You cant get any useful 68k programm into it.

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

In my idea it would run existing 68k apps like the standard 68k that it replaced with the emulation.
(it would use the Amiga's existing RAM, if there is no expansion RAM on the xcore board)



I'm just toying around with the idea of geeky Amigans being able to build "new" accelerators for their old dear HW. Using a real 68k chip is the hard way because those chips tend to be more pricey and require more additional components, like separate memory controller.
And if emulation would/could be used, minimal new support code would be needed in the OS.


But also... it would be interesting to run AROS natively on the xcore that is connected to the classic HW.
Interesting & insane. But people do strange things.


UPDATE: I know natami guys are developing a new powerfull 68k chip on a FPGA. That chip would be interesting also for old Amigas. (but there is the I/O voltage dilemma, IIRC)
If any sane idea is searched, it would usually mean forgetting the old HW and just use NATAMI or minimig HW that does not have any legacy HW voltages on the way.

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_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Arko I'm just toying around with the idea of geeky Amigans being able to build "new" accelerators for their old dear HW. Using a real 68k chip is the hard way because those chips tend to be more pricey and require more additional components, like separate memory controller.

You can always plug in a CPU card in a PCI ( maybe PCIe ) Slot, there are a lot of cards around with PPC, ARM or x86. As being real PCI cards they could access the mainboard Ram via normal PCI processes ... you just need someone making real useful drivers and software support for this kind of stuff.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

Yes, but Classic Amigas do not have the PCI. And untill Elbox get their SharkPPC working, I would not bother trying.

http://www.buy.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?info=330SP1G


For more toying with ideas for the A2000 cpu slot...
http://www.titan.co.nz/amigaak/AA060152.htm

Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Mar-2010 at 01:27 PM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Quote:

IIRC modern FPGA's thend to have only 3Volt I/O, isn't it so? ...... And IIRC, classic HW works on 5V signalling? So FPGA might need more extra components????

TobiFlex would know this as he has already done it: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20223

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@KimmoK

>Has anyone played/tinkered with xcore enough to say if it would be possible to build 68k emulator running on the xco

This won't work.
Xena does not have the needed power and not the memory you need to get the 68K emulation running.

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