@BigD

I couldn't agree more!

The passion that those of you who have used AmigaOS4.x show is admirable.
This has been honed by YEARS of exposure.

Noone can deny, that the opportunities X1000 brings to AmigaOS4.x development and functionality are hugely exciting.
BUT it cannot be ignored that only those who are already AmigaOS4.x aware will immediately spend money to test this.

Most Amiga users (ex or current) have never used AmigaOS4.x
I know that this is not the case on AW.net or Amigans etc, but it is nevertheless true.

Most Amigans remember Bitmap Brothers, SoTB and DeluxePaint etc.
Being able to access these; arguably irrelevant and ancient programs in a seamless way is essential to attracting a large user base.

It has been said many times before, NOSTALGIA is a powerful thing, indeed advertising agencies the world over make millions of dollars on the back of it.

Last edited by ddni on 20-Apr-2010 at 11:43 AM.
Last edited by ddni on 20-Apr-2010 at 11:41 AM.

_________________
AmigaOne X1000

@ddni

Indeed!!

68k Emulation JIT with Petunia is not enough! We need "RunInUAE r3 - Just double-click to run inside UAE!" as an integral part of OS4.x. Hyperion pay attention!!

RunInUAE_r3.lha

Amiga World Link: RunInUAE R3 Released!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@ddni

We've also got interest from the Mac Forums!! We must strike while the irons hot!!

AmigaOne X1000 on Mac Rumours Forum

Last edited by BigD on 20-Apr-2010 at 11:50 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @ddni Indeed!! 68k Emulation JIT with Petunia is not enough! We need "RunInUAE r3 - Just double-click to run inside UAE!" as an integral part of OS4.x. Hyperion pay attention!! RunInUAE_r3.lha Amiga World Link: RunInUAE R3 Released!

I think that is a good idea as well, but i think it would have to come with the required kickstart files as well as classic amigaos.

Last edited by Tomas on 20-Apr-2010 at 12:13 PM.

@BigD

"It's not a G5, but it's the next best thing."

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Tomas

Hyperion/A-Eon could bundle Cloanto's 'Amiga Forever' package with every X1000? Obviously, they'd need to talk to each other and avoid extra licensing rubbish involving Amiga Inc (assumed to be dead anyway)! It's worth setting the ball in motion at this stage.

The REAL effort will be required setting up the 'Classic Amiga Games Store' on the internet. The licensing/Abandonware problems will be a minefield!! The sooner Hyperion start, the sooner the red-tape can be overcome! I'm sure Team 17 would be supportive as most of their games are free to download on Dream17! Although their site seems to be down!

Dream17: Team 17 Fan Site - Site Down?

Last edited by BigD on 20-Apr-2010 at 12:31 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD
But dont they also own the classic OS/kickstart after the settlement? I dont see why hyperion could not bundle the required files if they were granted the rights to AmigaOS.

@ChrisH

And that's why I think that it should be an option when you install AOS 4. It should be very easy to play some old games just for fun. I'm sure that it will be appreciated and even though not important in the long run it would be a great think to have now at leaste (allthough I think that I would allways use it).

@BigD

I think Hyperion does not need any more licencing negotiations with anyone in case of AOS3.1 and 4.0.

"Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x (and subsequent versions of AmigaOS including without limitation AmigaOS 5) in any form, on any medium and for any current or future hardware platform under the exclusive trademark “AmigaOS” (Amiga operating system) and using other associated trademarks (such as the “BoingBall” logo). "

And it seems that also all previous licences are active:
- Cloanto - licences needed for Amiga Forever
- Data Storage Advisors AG - web sales of "Amiga" stuff
- eGames Inc - sales of kickstart with Games
- On Broadband Networks LLC - sales of kickstart with Games
- Envizions Inc - sales of kickstart with Games
- Ironstone Partners - network downloadable classic Games

Not 100% sure if Hyperion has all rights to 1.3 as well. ( IIRC, they do )

Anyway. It would be nice if AOS4 had a preset classic SW runtime environment. For classic games webshop, co-operation with those other licencees is more sane than do a new & own system.

Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Apr-2010 at 01:01 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Tommo1975 Quote from Bit-Tech article: Comments Quote: have fond memories of my Amiga! Great games, fun times with friends. Of course this X1000 isn't made by Commodore, just some company trying to cash in on the Amiga name. Pretty sad. A-Eon has some work to do here! "Who are you and what makes you qualified to pick up Commodore's baton in the area of Amiga Hardware?" Is what people are asking. Without intuitive OCS/ECS/AGA compatibility with classic programs these guys remember we are not going to clinch any new users! The software model requires the ability to download some of these said 'Classic' programs in a simple to use PlayStation Store type arrangement. Most people will see the X1000 as irrelevant unless it is a seemless Retro Amiga program running machine AS WELL as a kickass relevant modern Web machine! Difficult to combine the 2!!! At the moment we are leaving the UAE side of things to contributors. Hyperion needs to get these freelance contributors on-side and helping making this vision a reality IN TIME FOR THE AmigaOne X1000's launch!

I agree

Very cool to know about a decent hardware to run AmigaOS 4.1.

I long time I was thinking about the Acube sam460 release, but this one will be a very cool option.

More info about the machine http://www.a-eon.com/

[]'s

@ice2642

Welcome to AW, the x1000 is close to being released to beta testers before it goes on sale. It will be demoed at AmiWest on Oct. 23 & 24, next weekend. You can check this thread out for more info & a link for the streaming web site, http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32240&forum=16

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

i disagree with bigd and other saying ppl will expect all their old game to work out of the box on x1000.
especialy pc and mac users they know quite well old stuff loose support after a while.
they are constanly in need of upgrading .. ask a pc user if he can run dos6.22 or windows 3.11 software on their windows7 machine, or mac users if they can run macos7.5 software on latest snow leopard machines.
they can't.
why sould the x1000 support backward compatibility that far where other don't?

ocs/ocs/aga are very old gfx chips, compared to pc it's like saying supporting what they had at the same time (16 colors gfx chips) no pc today still support hardware sold 20years ago and since long out of production.

why sould x1000 support those old aga gfx chips ?
no reasons.
it's just amigans thinking so because they would like 100% backward compatibility.
and it's not a good thing imho. because targeting backward compatibility like that prevent the platform to move forward. for how long do you think os4 or its successors should continue to abide to old os3.x api ?! it has it's limitations.. ppl who created it in the end 80s couldn't possibly anticipate nowdays standards. there's a few problems with that api that need to be reviewed. and that mean small break in compatibility .. it has happened before in amiga-land. don't panic. look forward ..

if such support for backward compatibility should ever come for the x1000,
it should be sandboxed imho. not part of actual OS api.

in earlier version of mac osx, they had "classic" runing inside osx ,
in a window emulating the previous OS.

for dos apps there's dosbox, even on windows machine nowdays.

all other solutions decided and make a clean table, letting the past be the past ..
and evolve from it.

macs don't use macos 7,8 or 9 api anymore
windows don't use dos anymore ..
OSes got updated to reflect todays standards and uses

why should amiga be the only computer to stay frozen in time, perpetually using the same foundations ?!
OS3.x api isn't the holy grail, it wasn't perfect at the time, updates were still planned by the original team when everything collapsed. most notably: memory protection was planned.
and now in 2010 we're still without...
even atari (!) found a way for this with MiNT atari have full mp.

i can't care less about backward compatibility, and instead i'm awaiting eagerly any news for
- multicore support
- memory protection
- unicode support throughout the OS
- support for more than 4gb of ram
- pci express and recent gfx board support

i know some are coming already like pcie, multicore .. this is good, and i want more of this.
enough with aga already ..

and if some ask, who need more than 4gb of ram on amiga, for what ? no software need for it etc ...
i'll tell them two things:

1st: "build it and they'll come" as the saying goes ..
2nd: in the 80s bill gate said: "640kb should be enough for everyone ... he was wrong, of course.
saying "2gb max for amiga should be enough" is the same.

give ppl the possibility, they'll choose.. in time, apps will follow hardware..

Last edited by freeaks on 18-Oct-2010 at 06:16 AM.
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Last edited by freeaks on 18-Oct-2010 at 05:36 AM.

@webhead

Quote:

they could have chucked a sam into a little 1200 style case with cdrom floppy ,

Please, take this brilliant idea and contact Commodore USA immediately!

Quote:

and said 300 squid would have soldzillions but they obviously dont want to make money ,dummos.

That's disgusting. Even one squid is smelly enough.

But where are those "soldzillions" of people going to come from?

@ChrisH

Quote:

That's one reason why I wrote RunInUAE.

Which can confuse people when they try to run 68k apps under OS4 and they keep loading into UAE!

We need to put more work into making games easier to run also. Least requiring some script or config which lists all the disks for a game running a game with only an ADF file is still hard. I remember a friend trying to tun AB3d. I had to rename the ADF files to a particular format and some other action to just get it to load! And in the end it still didn't work, we couldn't get into the game.

UAE can be confusing for new users. One friend expected it to boot into OS3.9 and then show all his drives. When they were missing he wanted to know why! Then I had to explain it wasn't that simple and they all had to be added into a config file...

That said something messed up my OS3.9 setup and I can't boot UAE into OS3.9 anymore. My config is stuffed. Argh!

@Hypex

one way of limiting confusion would be having one officially supported way of running old stuff..
the rest (beside official way) would be optional and a user choice.

imho using uae for this is far better since the OS is then free to ameliorate areas that badly need a refresh since mid 90s (e.g: memory management, for example)

but then i'm just expressing my opinions here,
hyperion decides.

Last edited by freeaks on 18-Oct-2010 at 06:02 AM.

@ddni

68k emulation is not a problem for us anymore as we not one but two good options nowadays

glUAE linky
& RunInUAE which has already been mentioned

Last edited by klx300r on 18-Oct-2010 at 06:04 AM.

_________________
____________________________
c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

@KimmoK

Quote:

"It's not a G5, but it's the next best thing."

A 64-bit PowerPC CPU? Which is what a G5 was anyway. So I don't think we need to worry about this from the 1st Mac-rumours post.

@All

Comments from the other forum:

Quote:

Like all the recent Amiga stuff it's basic and unprofessional

Huh? The A-EON site has very nice graphics with a sprite for a menu! Do these people need flash everywhere just to exist. I doubt they'd survive a real camping trip with only an iPad and a bush to use as a toilet!

The only problem I can see is the sizebar is on the right side where the SCROLL BAR SHOULD BE when it should be SITTING ON THE BOTTOM!!!

Quote:

Any news on backward compatibility? The thought of loading up and running Alien Breed 3D with decent graphics settings without resorting to emulation is awesome.

What is this with people wanting to run old games? The point of this and OS4 in general is to move on into the future! Do people notice that with a PowerPC CPU Alien Breed 3D and everything else would be running in emulation regardless?!

Quote:

Of course this X1000 isn't made by Commodore, just some company trying to cash in on the Amiga name. Pretty sad.

What Commodore is he talking about? The one that destroyed the Amiga? Does he know about the new Commodore? Does he think the X1000 is just hardware and has no OS to be Amiga related at all?

Now as to this x86 C= Amiga box we're hearing about...

We'll just have to wait and see what will be Amiga about it.

Quote:

Lack of compatibility with the 68000 architecture means that any old amiga games and software will have to be run through emulators,

Again, what is it with these people? Why do they just want to run old stuff?

Do these people constantly try and run Carmen Sandiego, Leisure Suit Larry and Wolfenstein on their Quad core Window 7 PC and complain why it doesn't work natively in the modern Windows environment?!?!

Having said that it might work. Never tried myself.

Quote:

Amiga set for re-launch

Finally I have to pick on the authors title and associated comments. I just don't get this. Do these people live in the past? Have they not heard of the A1 and Sam. It's like these machine don't exist!

The Amiga was already re-launched! It was reborn with the AmigaOne machines SEVEN years ago! And officially with AmigaOS4 six years ago. And continued with the Sam and OS4.1. The Pegasos added later. What do these people think the "One" means in AmigaOne anyway? Where are all the "AmigaTwo" questions? These people don't make sense!

In a way this may be good as people think this is a new Amiga thing coming out. And so to them it may be fresh. Even if to me it looks ignorant knowing Amiga has still been around with the five year gap from C= demise to OS3.5, then a year to OS3.9, and the four year gap from that to OS4.0.

Going from the following timeline:
1994 C=Dead.
1999 OS3.5
2000 OS3.9
2003 A1-XE available
2004 OS4.0 pre-release

So I don't know where all this Amiga re-launch crap comes from. The longest we waited for any Amiga developments were five years, pending the accuracy of my timeline. Okay that's enough for people to move on and forget. But it hasn't been 15 years!! And suddenly a new machine is coming...

But I see a major problem here. What will these people think of the x86 C= Amiga machines just announced?! A mass hysteria of confusion?! :

Last edited by Hypex on 18-Oct-2010 at 06:53 AM.

@Hypex Quote:

Quote: That's one reason why I wrote RunInUAE. Which can confuse people when they try to run 68k apps under OS4 and they keep loading into UAE!

What on earth are you talking about? RunInUAE *asks* the user whether something should be run inside UAE or not!

Quote:

I remember a friend trying to tun AB3d. I had to rename the ADF files to a particular format and some other action to just get it to load! And in the end it still didn't work, we couldn't get into the game.

Assume you are talking about RunInUAE, it should be quite simple to get it to work. ADF games are run on an emulated A500, unless their folder or file name contains the word AGA. And AB3D needs AGA to work!

If you want it to automatically load several disks, then the disk number must be near the end of the name, and the first disk must be number 1. This is usually the case!

_________________
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