@vidarh

Quote:

vidarh wrote: I both like and dislike it. I love having access to my stuff everywhere, but the technologies are cumbersome and a huge step back in terms of developing UI's etc.,

The two major issues for me are with loss of control and loss of performance, though I do like the access anywhere aspect. Perfect solution for me is achieved through having your own server. I've set a server up before, it's not too tricky, hopefully if someone made a home server that was really simple for the average user to configure you'd see a big boost in home server usage.

As for UI, I hope Enyo is open-sourced, I think it'd be a great framework to develop web apps:
http://funkatron.com/posts/hp:-to-save-the-webos-development-community,-you-must-open-source-enyo-now.html

Last edited by HenryCase on 22-Aug-2011 at 07:23 PM.

No thanks. I do a lot of stuff online, but I still need the most powerful home system with a full-size keyboard / mouse / monitor to do it with. Recording my current videos on anything but a desktop does not work. I play Civilization off-line, and again, I want something faster than even a laptop to do it with. Good luck on trying to play your favorite resource hungry games. It doesn't work.

And there is no way I would rely on a Server outside of my house for storage.

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@AmigaBlitter

I think we are seeing more variety and devices are more pervasive. For workers like me, a large screen - dual 27s and heavy duty software will always justify a PC.

As a hobbiest, I love mobile devices when I a mobile or on the couch, real work still requires a larger screen and more processing power.

_________________

@Mechanic

Youre welcome have to whatever view you want. Dont want to get involved in x86 world, that's fine. What *IS* nonsense though was your sentiment that pcs need to be constantly upgraded. Sure, if you want to use cutting edge software a person might want to upgrade regularly, but again, its not essential. I have a 7 year old a64, a 10 year old athlon xp, and a p3 (12 yrs old). They all work nicely with software that suits.

I dont understand how you could argue otherwise. Its as clear as day and no different to the amiga. Want to use latest software, you need to buy hardware that supports it. My 12 yr old p3 still runs any software even the most "powerful" of Amigas will run, and better.

Hardly supports your fallacy does it? Although I suspect truth and/or logic doesnt play a part in you spewing this nonsense.

Please dont regard this as an attack, it's not the intention. Personally Id prefer more people were dedicated to the Amiga, but that particular arguement is innaccurate and shaped to fit an arguement. Enjoy your amiga, but is there really any need to come up with (false) reasons why you favor it?

Last edited by fishy_fis on 23-Aug-2011 at 07:28 AM.

@fingus

Quote:

fingus wrote: @Darth_X Quote: As regards the desktop, who here composes music or draws graphics with a web browser? No one! Right. And don´t forget that this Smartphone-Hype is just a wave like we had on Netbooks. ...

Yeah - reminds me of the "paperless office" hype we had some 25 years ago.
Back then they predicted that computers would lead to paperless offices within some years.
The reality is that it helped to save some paperwork, but it was never able to replace it entirely and will never do so.

I read the comments and think this hits the nail on the head:
"To say that pads are gonna kill the PC is as foolish as saying some new moped is gonna kill pickup trucks."

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
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(Albert Einstein)

@vidarh

Quote:

vidarh wrote: ... But the idea of being able to fire up a web service (with optional "offline" support) on any number of devices you own and instantly have access to all your data wherever you are in the world is increasingly becoming compelling for most users.

Sorry - but I would never ever store my sensitive data at a location beyond my control.
An absolute NO-GO.

Quote:

vidarh wrote: I have more and more of my documents in Google Docs, for example - I only use a regular word processor or spreadsheet for work - and enjoy being able to open them on my phone if I need to.

Well, this thought makes me smile:
The spreadsheets I have to deal with usually are large enough to decorate walls with them.
If I would try to display them on my phonie I'd just be able to see one or max. two table cells at once on the tiny screen...


Quote:

vidarh wrote: I both like and dislike it. I love having access to my stuff everywhere,

Hum, you love having access to your stuff e.g. while diving or swimming?
Well, I prefer enjoying the dive or the swim instead...

I agree, there are some situations where mobile web access makes sort of sense, e.g. if you're on your way using public transport and at the boarding station some idiot ripped off the timetable. With mobile web access you could check up the time tables online.
Just that my mobile phonie would need a 19"-21" display for me to be able to recognise things on it without my reading glasses and a big magnifying glass...

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

There´s no place like Desktop-Home!

Home sweet Desktop-Home!

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote: @Mechanic Youre welcome have to whatever view you want. Although I suspect truth and/or logic doesnt play a part in you spewing this nonsense. Enjoy your amiga, but is there really any need to come up with (false) reasons why you favor it?

Why would MY reasons for using/enjoying Amigas over PCs be false to me?
And,
Why do only you get to decide what is truth?

I don't know you well enough to know your life experiences in the world of
computers. About all I do know is that you are a 'computer guy'.

The article this thread is about came from another computer guy. In his words
the cost of maintaining PCs for the enterprise is not economical.

Hewlett-Packard is seriously considering leaving the, lets call it the
'consumer-small business', PC market.

I gave my view as to why it is expensive and/or not profitable.

Since you have clearly pointed out that my view is complete nonsense, what
is your view? What is your truth?

@Mechanic

I've just read your opinion, I respect it, but as fishy said they start from a wrong assumption. There's absolutely no need for a continue upgrade of current PCs. Today, processing power is far less important than it was in the gold era. Some years ago, having a 200 MHz CPU made the real difference than, for example, having the 90 MHz one. Today, any processor in the range of 2,2+ GHz Core2 Duo/Quad or i5/i7 will give you the same real world experience, with very little changes from 2,6 to 3,4 GHz. You will see the benefit of faster processors just when running benchmark or doing things where GPUs can't help yet. I've been using a 2,4 Ghz core 2 quad for about 5 years now, and the only thing I did was overclocking it to 3 GHz when I begun useing more heavily virtual machine.

Then let's argue a bit about Red Hat complaints. Jim Whitehurst says "we didn't make to the desktop for cost reasons", I may answer "bullshits": Linux didn't make to the desktop (and not Red Hat in particular) for the simple reason that no one in the Linux (red hat) world had the tiniest little idea about how a desktop operating system must be. A desktop operating system today must interact with the user, should help him handling his pictures, movie and music. And, above all, it will need games, games, games and more games. Without games, you won't be a desktop computer, you will be at best a office computer, but people at office will not be comfortable with it, because they already use a computer at home for fun, and that computer uses Windows for more than a reason.

In the linux world there is someone who has come very near to the desktop: that's Canonical with the Ubuntu distribution. And look: all Linux geeks says Ubuntu is crap, because it is somehow "bastardising" the "Linux philosophy", which basically is "I have spent a lot of my time in studying and research, reading documents and trial-and-error before handling this stupid thing: why should I help you to do the same in less time?". Ask tha same questions to Ubuntu creators, and they will give you a completely different answer than Red Hat. Costs are the same, it's the lack of a proper plan that forbids Red hat to sell in the desktop world. End of the OT.

@A500

For me it's the same, different devices for different needs/moods

@paolone

I wonder who these "all Linux geeks" who say Ubuntu is crap are, because Ubuntu is today the dominant Linux distribution also amongst a lot of us that have used Linux for a long time (I used Linux for the first time in '93, for example).

Ubuntu has a lot of flaws, that's true, and there are purists that dislike it, but all Linux distro's have their share of haters.

But I still think Whitehurst is right - it *is* down to cost. Windows is a pile of junk, but it is dominant because it supports every single piece of hardware out there and pretty much every piece of software out there either exists for Windows or have a ton of Windows equivalents.

Addressing those two issues is far more important than the functionality of the OS. Most people don't care about the OS, they care about the software and whether or not they can use the cheap peripherals they picked up without checking if it's compatible.

Both of those would take immense amounts of money to make inroads into, in terms of subsidies and paid development efforts to get enough critical software in place.

Look at Open Office / Libre Office. It's a great example: Sun *bought* Star Office - a commercial office package development company in order to be able to get a real competitor to Office. They spent millions on it. Despite that it's taken years to get decent traction for it, and it's still a small player.

Anything short of a billion dollar plus investment in getting more driver support and more software (including games) ported will be insufficient to boost Linux into a major position on the desktop in the short run. It can grow, but it will take many more years if it is to happen organically.

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@Dandy

Quote:

Sorry - but I would never ever store my sensitive data at a location beyond my control. An absolute NO-GO.

That's your choice, but for most users it's not an issue. Most users don't deal with stuff that's much more sensitive than what they post on Facebook...

Besides, if your data is that important, properly encrypted your data would be more likely to be safe in the data centre of a competent storage company than it is likely to be in an easy-to-break into private house or office. Of course that would require making sure you pick the right company to store it with, and stuff like Google Docs goes out the window.

There are certainly *some* cases where storing stuff online is not appropriate, but I don't for a second believes that applies to more than a percent or two of users.

Quote:

The spreadsheets I have to deal with usually are large enough to decorate walls with them.

That makes you part of a tiny minority. For my part, it's rare for the spreadsheets I need to deal with to be more than a few thousand cells at most. Most people I deal with never use spreadsheets for anything more advanced than their personal household budget.

Just opened one - I can fit about 10 columns by 15-20 rows on screen on my phone, which is perfect for things like my exercise program, my budget, my diet tracking etc. But if I do occasionally need to check a specific number in a work related spreadsheet, I can do that too even though it means scrolling around a bit.

Quote:

Hum, you love having access to your stuff e.g. while diving or swimming? Well, I prefer enjoying the dive or the swim instead...

No, but I do love having access to it when at the gym (exercise program), when buying lunch (my diet plan), anytime I want to check my todo-list when out shopping etc., to read my e-mail during a boring commute (or listen to my music, or watch videos or read books), on the way to meetings if I want to double check some numbers without having to drag a laptop or printouts with me and any number of other situations. I used to carry a paper notepad with me all the time, but I don't any more. Some of it is stored only on my phone, but most of it is either online or sync'ed between my phone and an online service. All of it can be trivially backed up locally.

Quote:

Just that my mobile phonie would need a 19"-21" display for me to be able to recognise things on it without my reading glasses and a big magnifying glass...

Just hold it closer. My phone has 800x480 resolution - we used to be able to work effectively with much less ;)

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@A500

Quote:

I think we are seeing more variety and devices are more pervasive. For workers like me, a large screen - dual 27s and heavy duty software will always justify a PC.

New phones and tablets generally come with HDMI out and support for bluetooth keyboards. Nvidia's Tegra 3 ("Kal El") - out in a few months - contains a 16 core GPU and comes with support for resolutions up to 2560 x 1600, and has a quad core Cortex 9 ARM CPU at up to 1.5GHz...

Don't bet on needing a bulky PC all that long. Not that I think all PC's will disappear - there'll always be *some* applications where people need to be able to stuff insane amounts of stuff into their boxes, but for *most* people the combinations of remote servers with tiny, powerful computers they can carry around in their pockets and pair with screens and keyboards wherever they need a large screen and proper keyboard will be more than sufficient.

The full size desktop PC is already quickly becoming a specialty item - go into a typical PC shop now and a larger and larger amount of floor space is taken up by laptops, "screen PC's" and very small footprint desktops. My local PC shop doesn't have even a single midi tower sized box or bigger. It *does* have a ton of tiny little boxes hooked up to 24" and above screens, though.

My phone already has more computing power than a laptop had a few years ago, so why not exploit it properly? It can do full HD video output, yet it's about to be eclipsed by said Tegra 3 and other coming chipsets.

It's a disservice to call these devices "smartphones". Many of the newest ones *are* in effect PC's that just happen to come in the form-factor of a phone and have a phone app and cellphone radio.

It's just the form factor has shrunk dramatically and they've gained some new capabilities, and for now most of them have a UI geared towards small screens and touch only.

I predict we'll see the largest form factor gradually shrinking, and the *average* size based on volume units sold will drop rapidly, until the vast majority of the market is powerful pocket sized computers (that happens to have phones in them) paired with cheap/dumb pads, laptop shells and wireless screens and keyboards as accessories, with small niches for high powered "actual" laptops and really high powered workstations.

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@Dandy

Quote:

I read the comments and think this hits the nail on the head: "To say that pads are gonna kill the PC is as foolish as saying some new moped is gonna kill pickup trucks."

Somehow I do not agree with you here. The PC as we have seen evolve from its late '70s incarnation upto what it is nowadays, I think it has had its time and is about to retire. I can foresee a system a la Apple, where the processor et all is built in in the monitor, with this difference, that in due time the basic computer is one and the same as your smartpad: put it in its cradle in the monitor and you have all your sensitive data and favourite apps at hand utilising the benefits of the large display's real estate and its raw processing power from the built-in processor. The moment you leave the place, you take out your smartthingy and you're logged out from the system.
I think the large cabinets with tons of drives and TB's will be a thing of the past quite soon! Solid state memory is getting cheaper by the week, faster and more reliable over time.

My pipedreams.

OldFart

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@paolone

Quote:

paolone wrote: @Mechanic I've just read your opinion, I respect it, but as fishy said they start from a wrong assumption. There's absolutely no need for a continue upgrade of current PCs.

"current PCs." Kind of says it all, in the sense of 'What was current yesterday?, what will be
current tomorrow?'.

Will you pay to have RedHat supply drivers for whatever hardware you own?
They are a business.

@OldFart

Quote:

OldFart wrote: The moment you leave the place, you take out your smartthingy and you're logged out from the system. My pipedreams. OldFart

How does that OldSong go........

You can have everything you seek,,,
For a dollar down,,,,
And a dollar a week.

@
And now for something completely

relevant .

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote: It's seems that the traditional desktop doesn't have a future. No more desktop on the desk? http://www.osnews.com/comments/25089

Laptop PC unit sales already overtaken the desktop PC unit sales.

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@vidarh

Quote:

New phones and tablets generally come with HDMI out and support for bluetooth keyboards. Nvidia's Tegra 3 ("Kal El") - out in a few months - contains a 16 core GPU and comes with support for resolutions up to 2560 x 1600, and has a quad core Cortex 9 ARM CPU at up to 1.5GHz...

Well, NVIDIA ION has 16 CUDA cores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Tegra#Tegra_3_.28Kal-El.29_series
Unreleased Kal El's GPU has 12 cores i.e. cut-down NVIDIA ION.

Kal-El will be targeting tablet form factors before phone form factors.

Quote:

My phone already has more computing power than a laptop had a few years ago, so why not exploit it properly? It can do full HD video output, yet it's about to be eclipsed by said Tegra 3 and other coming chipsets

Why compare against the old vs new?

In the tablet space, unreleased NV Kal-El will be competing against AMD Z-01/Z-Hondo**/C-50/C-60.

**Unreleased.

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Aug-2011 at 06:36 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Aug-2011 at 06:26 AM.

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@paolone

Quote:

paolone wrote: @Mechanic ... A desktop operating system today must interact with the user, should help him handling his pictures, movie and music.

Could you please explain this a bit more detailed? In what way should it help?
I mean - even my current OSses (AmigaOS 3.9, Amiga OS4.0 classic, WinXP) help me handling such files - so I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

Quote:

paolone wrote: And, above all, it will need games, games, games and more games.

Nah - not my OS.
I have near to no use for games.

Quote:

paolone wrote: Without games, you won't be a desktop computer,

I don't want to be a computer - neither desktop, nor tower, nor tablet or phonie - what made you think I want to be a computer?

Fun aside - per definition a desktop computer is:
"A personal computer in a form intended for regular use at a single location, as opposed to a mobile laptop or portable computer.
...
"Desktop" indicates a horizontally-oriented computer case usually intended to have the display screen placed on top to save space on the desktop."

Sorry - but no games mentioned as requirement to be counted as desktop computer.

Quote:

paolone wrote: you [it] will be at best a office computer,

No problem with that...

Quote:

paolone wrote: but people at office will not be comfortable with it,

You're right - they actually already ARE comfortable with it - at least here in the office where I work. To be honest, I never heard one of my colleagues moan that they want something else than a desktop computer.

Quote:

paolone wrote: because they already use a computer at home for fun, and that computer uses Windows for more than a reason. ...

At home I have 6 computers - 4 running AmigaOS and two running WinXP pro.
And all are desktops (or towers)...

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)