@eliyahu

Quote:

for heaven's sakes. the article in the statesman is misleading. we're trying to get ravi or someone else at freescale to send them a correction request.

hard to believe that freescale will review and contradict their own statements that must have been carefully worded by their public releases department. also on behalf of whom you would want to demand such a correction? os4? hyperion? amiga community? imho as not being freescale customers none here is in a position.

Some sources are now claiming a 8 core custom CPU by AMD for both Sony and MS next console. Wii U might be in trouble for 3rd party titles if developers conclude it's too big of a hassle to do both PPC and x86 versions of their games.

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@cdimauro

Here's the explaination for my sigh:

Years ago, i first reported your "notable" and "impressive" knowledge of the 68k CPU and other processors to the natami team, asking them to contact you to join to the project. Don't know if they have contacted you.
But reading article after article, i noticed that you used to be very critical and destructive about next gen Amigas, including the companies. Sorry to say, but this is what anyone can read in your articles. Recently, as soon as i asked the engineers for a possibile implementation of TiNA directly connected to the AmigaOne 500 (classic hardware into next gen) You just showed your disagreement. This is the reason for my complaints. I have to say that the engineers stated that a secondary PCB of TiNA (directly connected to the AmigaOne 500 and sam 460) could be easily created as soon as the first implementation will be completed.

Many others would like to have an enhanced classic into the next gen for hardware emulation and other experiments.

So my "sigh" are related to your repulsion for the Next Gen hardware and for the integration of the TiNA into the next gen.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

in my opinion sam users might profit more from having jit enabled uae, than another costly hardware to spport the emulation. otherwise i dont particularly see why you need both devices in common case, but i suppose it might be thought of after an amiga fpga replacement has been designed and proven working. but first things first, please.

Last edited by wawa on 21-Jan-2013 at 04:48 PM.

@wawa

Jit is a must have, but would be nice to have transparent hardware emulation. Moreover, this kind of expansion could lead to other hardware projects.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

Moreover, this kind of expansion could lead to other hardware projects.

what projects do you have in mind?

@cdimauro

http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PowerPC.jpg

There seems to be about 10 companies developing PPC cores.
But like on ARM side, most of them develop low power 32bit chips and only two or three develop high end chips.

IIRC, So far it seems Freescale is developing only low end 32bit ARM chips. 64bit is so far PPC & MIPS territory.

Last edited by KimmoK on 21-Jan-2013 at 05:17 PM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

I'm said it before and I'll say it again. Freescale is reducing to THREE arches, from over 20. ARM and POWER are two of those three. RIGHT NOW they are focussing about 100% of R&D towards ARM, but R&D in the chip world is years ahead of post-engineering (which is where the next one or two generations of POWER based QorIQ is now). So we'll see plenty of cool things yet.

If we find some cool ways to use the P204x, P3, P4, P5, T4 and T2 series processors we'll have all sorts of fun for at least another decade.

Besides, all the ARM chips will be multicore as well, so that's what we need to focus on for now. Across all platforms.

See my sig for more info

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: Some sources are now claiming a 8 core custom CPU by AMD for both Sony and MS next console. Wii U might be in trouble for 3rd party titles if developers conclude it's too big of a hassle to do both PPC and x86 versions of their games.

Some thirdy parties already announced that they will not port their projects to Wii U.

Next generation consoles will not be some much different from the current ones from the hardware point of view: Nintendo will lag behind, recycling again the old GameCube's CPU...

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote: @cdimauro Here's the explaination for my sigh: Years ago, i first reported your "notable" and "impressive" knowledge of the 68k CPU and other processors to the natami team, asking them to contact you to join to the project. Don't know if they have contacted you.

They did, but I was not interested on developing new software.
Quote:

But reading article after article, i noticed that you used to be very critical and destructive about next gen Amigas, including the companies.

I don't see why: there aren't "next generation" Amigas. There are PCs, Macs, and AmigaOnes, which are very different machines.

Amiga is a clearly defined set of machines with (very) custom hardware and ad hoc operating system.

The dream has never repeated.
Quote:

Sorry to say, but this is what anyone can read in your articles.

This is what YOU want to see.
Quote:

Recently, as soon as i asked the engineers for a possibile implementation of TiNA directly connected to the AmigaOne 500 (classic hardware into next gen) You just showed your disagreement. This is the reason for my complaints.

I've already explained why. Your idea didn't make any sense.
Quote:

I have to say that the engineers stated that a secondary PCB of TiNA (directly connected to the AmigaOne 500 and sam 460) could be easily created as soon as the first implementation will be completed.

To do what? Have you any idea of how an Amiga works and what you are talking about?

Anyway, TiNA is an open project: you or any other people will be free to adapt it for you needs. IF you are able to do it, and IF it really makes sense (which I don't subscribe).
Quote:

Many others would like to have an enhanced classic into the next gen for hardware emulation and other experiments.

Hu. Are you saying that a 400+Mhz PowerPC core isn't able to fully emulate an Amiga 1200 (14Mhz) at perfect frame rate?

If so, I can suggest you three solutions: buy a better CPU (there are Ghz+ and powerful enough PowerPCs), write a good 68K -> PowerPC JIT compiler, or implement a brand new Amiga emulator PowerPC in assembly with a clever rasterline emulation. The easier is the former, of course.
Quote:

So my "sigh" are related to your repulsion for the Next Gen hardware and for the integration of the TiNA into the next gen.

It's simply good sense, because it's quite evidente that you don't know nothing about what you are talking about.

To be clear, can you tell me, please, what specific part(s) of TiNA are you interested in porting to the AmigaOne machines? How do you plan to interface it to the FPGA?

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @cdimauro http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PowerPC.jpg There seems to be about 10 companies developing PPC cores. But like on ARM side, most of them develop low power 32bit chips and only two or three develop high end chips.

Exactly, and from the picture I don't see so much about CPU & core evolution.

We are talking about existing projects, or projects which are currently under development.
Quote:

IIRC, So far it seems Freescale is developing only low end 32bit ARM chips. 64bit is so far PPC & MIPS territory.

Freescale will continue with its projects, of course.

Right now ARM64 is not need: a 64 bit PowerPC will suffice for its market.

You know that ARM64 is tailored for servers, to attack a strategic field for Intel. There's time to acquire know-how about it, and embrace the new core.

@cdimauro

Quote:

I don't see why: there aren't "next generation" Amigas. There are PCs, Macs, and AmigaOnes, which are very different machines.

thats right..

Quote:

If so, I can suggest you three solutions: buy a better CPU (there are Ghz+ and powerful enough PowerPCs), write a good 68K -> PowerPC JIT compiler, or implement a brand new Amiga emulator PowerPC in assembly with a clever rasterline emulation. The easier is the former, of course. Quote:

i think you might be interested in the thread i linked to, really.

Quote:

To be clear, can you tell me, please, what specific part(s) of TiNA are you interested in porting to the AmigaOne machines? How do you plan to interface it to the FPGA?

i think he would like to have an amiga chipset on pci card, to be interfaced by 68k emulation. such has been hammered on multiple ocasions as soon as some 68k hardware remake appeared on the horizon. i dont get how that would have much impact, except os4 fans probably hoped to convince the remaining 68k scene to their amigaones.

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: Next generation consoles will not be some much different from the current ones from the hardware point of view: Nintendo will lag behind, recycling again the old GameCube's CPU...

Pardon?, i have traveled high and low and yes that WiiU thing might be correct indeed but that comes down to one simple thing, sales! other than that i am stumped where your information comes from.

As for this GameCube Cpu you're referring to, just for the record, it has sold over 110 MILLION units and it's still going even tho very slow now (thank god!!).

As for project Durango (Microsofts xbox monster project) and project Orbit (Sony's new monster) both seem to go totally different this time around and both rumors and trustworthy sources indicates quite the opposite of what youre claiming here.

I suggest you go to any major console and tech website and have a read, also yes its rumors and unanmed sources so it might not be for real but! keep in mind this is the 2 same persons who leaked the PS Vita , The new Slim ps3 and the 360 slim and all bundles and so on months! before they got confirmed.

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@cdimauro

Quote:

I don't see why: there aren't "next generation" Amigas. There are PCs, Macs, and AmigaOnes, which are very different machines.

There are even two branches marketing "next generation" Amiga branded desktop computers:
AmigaOne/AmigaOS by Hyperion
Amiga Mini (Mio) by CommodoreUSA (not sold anymore, I fear)

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Amiga is a clearly defined set of machines with (very) custom hardware and ad hoc operating system.

Clearly defined? Show me two Amiga users with the same definition of "Amiga".

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If so, I can suggest you three solutions: buy a better CPU (there are Ghz+ and powerful enough PowerPCs), write a good 68K -> PowerPC JIT compiler

Exactly. That is the right way. Cleanest and fastest path to full software compatibility without need to create some monstrous union of legacy and modern technology.



Back to topic...

PowerPC is dead on desktop. Single core performance of the fastest PowerPC core in existence is less than 1/4 of common and cheap Core i5. Further, there is no PowerPC SoC suitable for netbooks or even tablets.

@pavlor

Quote:

there is no PowerPC SoC suitable for netbooks or even tablets

The MPC5121e could be suitable is very old but avaliable. Anyway there are no SoC suitables because there is no interested customers. Sure that if you ask for a suitable Soc for tablet/mobile in Millions they manufacture one for you

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Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Quote:

The MPC5121e could be suitable is very old but avaliable.

As you wrote, very old. Pentium II class performance - back to year 1999?


Hopefuly some Chinese manufacturers will improve this situation (but I wouldn´t bet on that).

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @Fransexy Quote: The MPC5121e could be suitable is very old but avaliable. As you wrote, very old. Pentium II class performance - back to year 1999? .

The same as Rasperry Pi and it has sold +700000 units and growing

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No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Rpi is sold by a non profit organisation at a very low price. And, AFAIK, doesn't have the cache coherency issuw as 5212e

I guess PPC missed it's chance 5-10 years ago, when there were still PPC desktops and software development.

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Quote:

wawa wrote: @cdimauro i think you might be interested in the thread i linked to, really.

It's a very long thread, so I saved it, and I'll read when I have enough time. May be this weekend.
Quote:

Quote: To be clear, can you tell me, please, what specific part(s) of TiNA are you interested in porting to the AmigaOne machines? How do you plan to interface it to the FPGA? i think he would like to have an amiga chipset on pci card, to be interfaced by 68k emulation. such has been hammered on multiple ocasions as soon as some 68k hardware remake appeared on the horizon. i dont get how that would have much impact, except os4 fans probably hoped to convince the remaining 68k scene to their amigaones.

An Amiga hardware in a PCI card is a completely different project, and resembles the Amiga Inc. solution for bringing backward compatibility with the Amiga DE platform.

But "linking" (part of) an Amiga hardware project with an existing AmigaOne through an FPGA is a complete non-sense.

Anyway, I think that a standalone project is a more interesting solution, even for OS4 users.

@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: The same as Rasperry Pi and it has sold +700000 units and growing

R Pi has the big advanatge that it has a hardware video decoder that is capable of hd video. The device is pretty slow but does soem demanding jobs that mask it's slowness.

The 512x family is too limited to impress a wider audience. Unfortunately.

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