Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote: @cdimauro I've not used any offending word.

I haven't said that, in fact. Read it again...

Last edited by cdimauro on 22-Jan-2013 at 08:38 AM.

@cdimauro

"I was talking about x86 or x64, not i5 specifically."

I just spotted someone putting i5 together with "cheap" and to me that does not currently match.

(after quick look I found 2.5Ghz AMD APU chip for 39eur and 1Ghz PPC for 30eur)


But as gone through, CPU & SoC markets are changing.
x86 is scrinking, but reaching towards embedded and mobile market (intell will die unless they manage) and ARM is growing at fastest speed, reaching towards 64bit etc...
In a few years things should look pretty different, all architectures should have new generations on the market (all multicore with pretty low Ghz rating)..

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

I've not used any offending word.

then read your title again:
Quote:

Another blow by the usual dude to PPC

id say this and other places is trying to sound insulting alright, only you probably didnt expect that the person you are referring to will respond.

@Paul

Quote:

@cdimauro, wawa, and Wolf to the Moon Thanks for YATPACHA. . . (Yet Another Three Page Advertisement (for) Classic Hardware (and) Aros Paul

what concerns the thread, you may check who started it, and why he s been responded. also i dont know where you found a mention of aros, but thanks for reminding me. however advertising genuine amiga cant be wrong on an amiga dedicated site?

@wawa

No, "the usual dude" in italian is "il solito ragazzo", to indicate someone already known by the audience, as i already pointed out in other thread: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35528&forum=2#678676



As for Cesare, i respect his great processors knowledge and programming capability.

Btw, i want to say to him: se te piglio ti regalo un poco di peperoncini calabresi così parli con più calore di Amiga PPC e OS4.

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 22-Jan-2013 at 09:30 AM.

_________________
retired

@cdimauro

Quote:

Frankly speaking, I don't see the value for such a thing.

fine, but i actually do, even though it may sound pretty radical. the obvious reason is speed. but also reducing the amount of work to be done, problem which was still able to kill projects like natami on a comperatively advanced stage. and beyond that that it might be quite complicated to get full 68k 32 bit emu including fpu and mmu. mmu is frequently considered not necessary, still it is useful for debugging and may be helpful for improving the system in therms of stability and the like.

but im not trying to convince you, just explaining, its just one of alternatives and im interested in and supportive for a pure fpga approach too. the thing is i believe the approach has to be open and modularized.

Last edited by wawa on 22-Jan-2013 at 09:36 AM.

@AmigaBlitter
everybody can sense your undertone:
Quote:

This dude has greatly criticized (in other articles) next gen Amiga PPC, x1000 and amigaone 500. It's seems to be involved (sigh) in the software side of TiNA (the italian new amiga in FPGA).

but whatever, i dont think cesare nor anyone else feels easily offended, so lets go on with the topic.

@kimmok

x86 market isnt shrinking. In fact year in year out cpu numbers are still growing.
Percentage of market share may appear to be shrinking, but in no small part because the "market" figures now also include segments it once didnt.

If a multi billion dollar company that is still growing is considered "in trouble" then Id be interested to hear your take on what it takes to be successful :)

The market is changing, but Intel is an absolute bohemeth. A person would have to be mad to think they dont have the capacity to adapt for more recent markets. Surely the last few years and their upcoming products show this?
It's funny. I often read here that ARM is a threat to Intel, but in reality it's equally likely that it's Intel who will start to eat into the ARM space. As things stand they mostly occupy different spaces, but at some point there will be overlap, and that's when things get interesting (outside of desktops, where obviously x86 is king).

Contrary to how it may appear Im not any sort of Intel "fanboy". Im just not the sort of person to discredit something just because I want it to be true.

@Paul

Quote:

@cdimauro, wawa, and Wolf to the Moon Thanks for YATPACHA. . . (Yet Another Three Page Advertisement (for) Classic Hardware (and) Aros

It's a public forum site that along with MOS and OS4 covers those things. I really dont get the problem with people using the site within it's purpose.

@fishy_fis

Ok.
At least some sources estimate that PC business should be scrinking during coming years.
As I collected the data from the article somewhere there.....

Today it's for PCs 41m & 43% of CPU market (vs 55m others)
And 2017 estimated 36m & 28% market (vs 90m others)

So R&D usable income will shrink in PC world, while estimated to almost double elsewhere, but as you said, most likely x86 will find it's way to more devices than just PCs, because they can afford to do it.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@cdimauro

Quote:

You know that Hyperion has no right to use the Amiga brand. Only AmigaOne, Amiga One, AmigaOS and Amiga OS are usable.

Amiga One is Amiga brand created by Amiga.Inc in 2000 with aim to restart "Amiga desktop platform".

Only Hyperion can use both Amiga One and Amiga OS names and of course has access to original OS source codes. That is enough for my definition of "Amiga".

Licence of Commodore USA is probably valid for all name combinations with small limitation: OS similar to Amiga OS can´t be pre-installed on these computers.

Quote:

I don't care about users, but about history, and history says that the last Amiga (branded) machine by Commodore had a custom hardware, on top of which ran an had hoc operating system.

Users and operating system, that is all what left of Amiga platform.

@pavlor

"OS similar to Amiga OS can´t be pre-installed on these computers."

It is sad that this is the situation. The brand has still some recognition. Best would be of the brand would be a kind of open brand (similar how Linux is used now) that could be used for all flavors. Or something like "Amiga based" or "Based on Amiga technology". But that will not happen.

@pavlor

Quote:

Amiga One is Amiga brand created by Amiga.Inc in 2000 with aim to restart "Amiga desktop platform". Only Hyperion can use both Amiga One and Amiga OS names and of course has access to original OS source codes. That is enough for my definition of "Amiga". Licence of Commodore USA is probably valid for all name combinations with small limitation: OS similar to Amiga OS can´t be pre-installed on these computers.

well, thats up to you. who knows, if cusa claims to commodore label are not more justified and legally backed up than those of a.inc or hyperion to amiga. i do not base my amiga definition on doings of shady companies. same as i dont care if atari that released "neverwinter nights" has any legal link to atari hat built 800xl and st series, plainly it is not the same company with the same profile. i guess the genuine atarians will see it alike. according to that i recognize genuine amiga as what it is, namely amiga, and particularly support the community based initiatives to build further upon amiga philosophy like aros or dedicated fpga hardware. just i wouldnt claim this is what the only genuine amiga is today.

Last edited by wawa on 22-Jan-2013 at 04:34 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

just i wouldnt claim this is what the only genuine amiga is today.

As I wrote, it was my definition of "Amiga".

@anyone who actually knows what he's talking about

When I read the quote by the PPC guy, I notice that he's talking in the context of microcontrollers. Maybe I'm wrong (probably -- I'm not a hardware guy) but I don't believe that covers the entire range of Freescale PPC products. Could he simply be saying that R&D on microcontrollers is nearly entirely ARM? That wouldn't exclude the continuation of R&D on other PPC products.

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@simplex

Here's a short list of what they've been offering in the MCU (as opposed to CPU) classification so far (I didn't include anything that is already labelled legacy):
S08, RS08, HC08, S12, HCS12, HC16, MC/DSP56F, Kinetis K/L/M/W/X (this is ARM Cortex-M territory, but various cores, not sure I get the point of having so many different ARM cores supported), Vybrid F/R (ARM Cortex-A5), MPC5xx, MPC5xxx (mostly e200 but some e300, they've already told me half a year ago that the 5121/3/5 and 5200 family has no roadmap), PX (e200), Coldfire+ J/Q, Coldfire v1/v2.

Most of these have internal flash, which is sort of important to most people in considering if something is MCU or CPU

I for one would not mind them shutting down R&D on most of these families if that can mean they'll start earning money so we can trust them to stay in business. If they go down, that'll hurt POWER more than if they put the R&D effort on the back burner.

As it is now, it's very hard to figure out what to use and when. Freescale has an excellent track record in keeping chips alive long after they shut down the R&D department, for an example go to digikey and search for mc68, you can still buy 68000/020/040 and 060, anyone care to venture how many years since they were marked "not recommended for new designs"?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Panthro

Quote:

The branding of the CommodoreUSA emulation boxes is not an official designation or path of Amiga.Inc its just a licensing of the name, know the difference :)

Wrong, it is as C=USA has the exclusive license for "Amiga" so that means whatever they designate as an "Amiga" is a real "Amiga." Just as Hyperion can designate whatever PPC as an "AmigaOne." Please note the difference in names, "Amiga" vs "AmigaOne."

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

Quote:

Wrong, it is as C=USA has the exclusive license for "Amiga"

I thought exclusive licence covered only all-in-one devices, licence for other uses was non-exclusive.

Quote:

Just as Hyperion can designate whatever PPC as an "AmigaOne."

This licence is exclusive for every machine running AmigaOS - not architecture (PowerPC) dependent. Amiga.Inc can licence Amiga name to more companies (eg. iContain, CommodoreUSA), Amiga One name licence belongs only to Hyperion.

Today, only Amiga branded computers sold to public are AmigaOne 500 and (probably) AmigaOne X1000. Amiga Mini/Mio seems to be discontinued. Future of new (semi-announced) Amiga computers from CommodoreUSA (A1000/2000) is hard to predict at this time.

@pavlor

Quote:

Today, only Amiga branded computers sold to public are AmigaOne 500 and (probably) AmigaOne X1000. Amiga Mini/Mio seems to be discontinued.

You mean:
Today, only AmigaOne branded computers sold to public are AmigaOne 500 and (probably) AmigaOne X1000.

Amiga != AmigaOne != AmigaOS

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@Crumb

AmigaOne is Amiga brand. At least that was original intention of Bill McEwen in 2000...