@Hypex

Windows, OS/2, BeOS and NEXTSTEP all either preceed Linux or have been in development prior to Linux gaining widespread support.

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@number6

Quote:

Ergo, people do what they can within these constraints. Simple as that...

if the constraints are to tight to let those people do anything reasonable then ither they Need to find a way to free them of those constraints first or the users should forget about them. why do the people need to support a lost case? because judging by what you say it is lost and even if it somehow works for small parts it will ever be a burden.

in the awareness of own situation the attitude should be at least not indoctrinate users, not to block and not to try to discredite alternative solutions. the promary interews of the whole Amiga Scene is to free themselves from any possible legal burdens, even if it means giving up the genuine source code and the name or name-alikes.

aros is maybe not an ideal answer to this due to its own orthodox license, outsiders not always seem to easily accept, but in my exes it is the closest to what can be done. and it is almost done and available at this time, so why not to use it?

@Hypex

Quote:

. I think a 68k emulator would have been a bad idea for a NG solution

how is it worse than switching to another almost dead architecture neither the os nor existing applications can wholly take the advantage of. this is as true tuday as it was then. just look at 68k Emulation on whatever system as smiga application compatibility layer. a virtual machine like the java one, if you will. whom in the end insists of what hardware the black box contains if up to his face on the Surface of the os and application programming nothing changes.

genuine amiga 68k should have become the true "amiga anywhere" and we would have been fine.

Quote:

We don't need any more slow booting complaints.

your computers are already awfully slow, any slower will not make noticeable Impact ;P

Quote:

Also, there are technical things not discussed, like filesystems and DOS. It would need to support Amiga filesystems and AmigaDOS would need to be AmigaDOS. Perhaps Linux path semantics could be in there and hidden but it would need to act as well as feel like AmigaOS. Unlike Apple who dumped the Mac path semantics for the incompatible Unix ones. And also unlike the CommodoreOS which tries to be like a Workbench desktop but didn't work as it has Linux sticking its head out.

i think we will be soon able to judge ourselves if this is a solution or not. the only major handicap so far is it will not be called "os4"

@wawa

It's obvious that both MorphOS and AROS are steering clear of the name.

The current linux approach we've seen...not so much and we've read the rumored results of keeping that attachment.

As to which approach is best or has any chance of success...that remains to be seen, imo.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Quote:

The current linux approach we've seen

which particularly?

Last edited by wawa on 21-Oct-2013 at 04:27 PM.

@wawa

OS/4 obviously.

Since I'm talking about the obvious differences of "opinion" on what transpires with each change that was observed in the past.
I'm not mentioning this to start a discussion about it, just to point out the difference in what happens when an approach "touches" the name even remotely.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

I remember reading all about QNX in Amiga Format and being very excited about that being used as the kernel, and then reading abut the fact of how fast AmigaOS XL was back then wishing the Amiga had gone down that route. I was never really happy with the idea of Linux as the bases of the OS. I think its mainly because if I wanted to use Linux I can already and dont need Amiga branding to move me over there, lot more has to be change underneath for me to really like linux.

Aros solution is a little better still (as I understand it) keep how the core system work and just have it hosted on linux so when you want to you can pull linux apps into aros environment, this allows all linux apps to work in the environment you like, no need to restart or exit the OS and developers no longer really need to port over linux software they can build new original software that take advantage of the amiga structure.

I really like AmiCygnix and how that has allowed apps to be more easily ported and used in OS4 environment and its made me wonder how much work it would be to have a full linux sandbox on OS4 so that you could access all linux app in OS4 and no longer would we really have as much need to port apps over, we could make more original native apps.

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AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@ExiE

Quote:

QNX and Linux are two very different things. QNX is realtime microkernel and Linux is monolithic kernel. I would prefer QNX any second.

Rationally speaking you should prefer the MorphOS approach then as it runs on top of a microkernel called Quark.

Amithlon and MorphOS aren't too different tbh, both allow 68k code and native code (X86 or PPC) to run interchangably and the whole OS sits on top of another kernel that boots the hardware.

If OS4 were to move to this model (As ARIX seems to be doing too) it would be quite amusing to me as it was decried as heresy by certain rather vocal Hyperion supporters for the last 13 years.

@amigang

AmigaOSXL was a POS. Amithlon on the other hand was a work of genius and a thing of beauty.

Such a shame that it was destroyed by the greed of certain people who have done nothing of importance for the Amiga. Ever.

@Hondo

Quote:

I could easily live with AOS running on a linux kernel...as long as it looks and acts mostly like AOS

This is a bit more Amigan inside than Amithlon: http://www.aeros-os.org/

But it is less 68k than amithlon was. But you can still get an UAE on Linux and use it without chip set emulation. That was more or less what Amithlon did.

Here a demo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoSTGWjoEwM

But as far as I know you would not even try it, maybe you woul even ignore the links.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@wawa

Quote:

if your attitude towards something stands and falls with the name alone, then there is some serious psychological problem involved.

How polite.



Edit: corrected quote.

Last edited by pavlor on 21-Oct-2013 at 05:37 PM.

@Arko
Ah Emula (end of video).. still unreleased... so much still unreleased : )

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@number6

Quote:

Since I'm talking about the obvious differences of "opinion" on what transpires with each change that was observed in the past.

is this all you are afraid of? didnt you expected how it will turn out? Roberto (it was his name, wasnt it?) has deliberately tried to provoke, was answered and backed off despite bold claims ive heard from a user that funny enough disappeared again from this board.

also i dont see anything that would be functionally interesting in that os/4 even iff it was somewhat called "Amiga". im not for names as you may have noticed by now. it was aimed at others.

aros or its distros and forks dont seem to have such issues, its a safe ground you can build upon (i hope) and it provides means of functionality that are asked after in this thread. simple as that.

@pavlor

Quote:

How polite.

i beg pardon if this is impolite, but isnt it true?

edit: i know there are bits of it that may apply to all of us "amigans". an jugoslavian psychoanalist and media theoretician entiteld one of his book "love your syndrom". okay, i love my syndrom being among you, even if i sometimes think i would be better off without it. just one essential thing is to realise if one has a Problem and reflect it.

Last edited by wawa on 21-Oct-2013 at 05:59 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 21-Oct-2013 at 05:58 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

is this all you are afraid of? didnt you expected how it will turn out? Roberto (it was his name, wasnt it?) has deliberately tried to provoke, was answered and backed off despite bold claims ive heard from a user that funny enough disappeared again from this board.

Oh yes, its closing to november, should I check did that
Linux of his started supporting X1000 and SAM460?

Now he has forum, but no mention of it there or anywhere
on the website. But clear sign that it is PC OS v8.0
http://pcos08.freeforums.org/

C=USA stylee - maybe all C=OS lovers should be redirected there

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Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@wawa

Sometimes I do wonder what your agenda is.

You seem to have a distinct dislike for PPC and Aos4 and generally Hyperions direction.
While its not quite logical to invest in PPC/Aos4 if you compare it to the performance of Wintel machines,
thats not really the crux of it. It would be like ridiculing Classical Amigans/C64 for spending money on upgrading their machines, tweaking and generally ...having fun!

Same with Classical cars. Performance not up to par with current technologies, but people still enjoy
it.

Trevor/Aeon, Amigakit and Hyperion seems to enjoy their "universe" and quite a few people share that
view. Let them enjoy it.

@Hondo

AmigaOS built upon a Linux kernel would have made sense during the Gateway era, and makes sense now, in my opinion. But only if done properly.

And I believe Arix is basically Aros + Linux/Unix, I assume, so perhaps something will be done there.

And by properly, I mean Amiga APIs, Amiga-like GUI, seamless 68K emulation, using a Linux kernel. Not simply taking Linux, slapping on some Amiga icons, ie CUSA-style.

The problem now is that there is a good chance nobody outside of these forums would care a whole lot. Then again, it's not like tons of people are using AROS outside of the Amiga scene, so perhaps it would at least get more eyeballs. It'd be the sort of thing that former Amiga people may at least try, download on a spare machine or in a virtual machine, if they see it can run some modern software.

If an ARM port was made, I could see it turning into a secondary option for the Raspberry Pi, or other niche ARM types of devices.

Last edited by Nameless on 21-Oct-2013 at 06:43 PM.
Last edited by Nameless on 21-Oct-2013 at 06:42 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

is this all you are afraid of?

This isn't about fear. Again, just a clear illustration of what happens when someone invokes the name. Make no mistake, potential money that could be targetted towards improving the C= & Amiga side ends up funding the vacations of attorneys. That is the sole result.

Quote:

has deliberately tried to provoke, was answered and backed off despite bold claims

And again, since the attorneys will keep the truth from ever being shared with the general public (take that to the bank), all you can do is speculate as to what has really transpired. And that speculation just leads to more mistrust, so it's win/win for the attorneys.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Overflow

Quote:

Sometimes I do wonder what your agenda is.

Wawa = AROS68k.

If Linux kernel would be adopted for AOS, I would be afraid that also all poor sides of Linux start to emerge. (complexity, bloat, etc...)

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?