@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: Relaunch what ? The trademark ? It seems both the hardware and the OS are in active development right now. So what's a relaunch ?

Good point. Add to this that, if you're really going to spend 10M$ to realunch "the Amiga", then you have to face competition. Are you people here really sure that, outside of this community, anyone would use a strongly limited API system like our one, with scarce-to-no-at-all modern productivity software available, no 64 bit, no SMP, no memory protection, no security? Real truth is that if you want to sell an "Amiga computer" to the masses, then you need to provide it with a robust software environment people will be happy and free to use, with no '80-90s limitations. And you need to have all common software people use, unless you obviously go for the cloud where you can provide an Amiga thin client always connecting to a powerful Amiga Platform Software Provider which offers all people would need, from word processing to spreadsheet to DTP à-la Google Docs.

@paolone

I think he might mean to re-launch it as commercially viable/semi-mainstream platform, which again especially for the latter 10m. USD sounds to me too small amount. Regarding the former, 10m should be enough to keep things rolling at higher speeds, development wise. But then again you will have to expand vastly the market not only to current or past Amiga users but to a whole new audience (just imagine the marketing costs for this campaign alone). I don't believe that IPs are the main concern here. Let's suppose that you introduce a rapidly enhanced OS4 version for x86 on custom Amiga cases, what's the difference if it 'll feature the Commodore logo or not? You can just stick with the Amiga brand. Idk, perhaps he has better info ofc and 10m. are the combined amount quoted for IP holders (Amiga Inc etc) to market OS4 outside the PPC platform.

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@Cool_amigaN

As long as you limit things to a hobby level for those already here, then a focus on current technology (be it Amiga/Workbench, Vampire, AROS, MorphOS, Amigaone/OS4 etc) is OK. A focus on the technology is perhaps even a requirement then, since the "customers" are already here and they know what they want, the tech is why they are here. But again - it's a hobby!

But as soon as you aim for a real market, "a platform re-launch" or whatever, then you need to begin from the other end and start with a focus on some market need that isn't already taken care of by someone else or that you could do better. The technology isn't the focus at all, it's merely the enabler, it's what fulfills that market need. "What would people want to buy, and based on that, what/how can I produce it so it becomes attractive in competition with other options?"

People tend to mix this up, the hobby level with tech focus, and a misconception that there would actually be a real market for this outside our narrow little hobby scope! That's why "Oh my god, PPaint is now for sale at a real app store for OS4, finally things are starting to happening, now we just need to pour a $10,000,000 money stream on it all, and we will have a platform re-launch!"

@andres

What if you had two CPU's: a PowerPC to link with the past and an X86 or some other CPU for the future? Amiga has done it before. Choose carefully and choose a CPU that really has a future. That way you could satisfy the ones who think it isn't a real Amiga without a legacy link. Maybe the PowerPC would only have a rudimentary function like the old Bridgeboard had.

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@TRIPOS

I agree with you. That's why I stated that 10m.USD is a fair (or even more than enough) for an advanced level of a "hobby" market but way too little for mainstream competition. Because the tech that OS4 (or any other Amigish OS, like my preference MorphOS) has to incorporate is huge and cannot be fulfilled without a dedicated OS/hardware team. And that costs way more than just 10m.$.

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@TRIPOS

Quote:

Relaunch it with what? The Aeonkit Amigaone systems? They are what scared the last few people away! OS4 is a coma patient that takes an occasional breath of air once in a while, and like the rest of the "NG" OS's it fell miles short of ever becoming the true "NG" OS that would have been required for a true NG relaunch. MorphOS is the only one going for true NG, but they are not interested in the Amiga brand (and true NG means cutting some cords to the Amiga compatibility anyways, so...) If not NG, then what? Retro for nostalgics? Vampire? While being kind of cool tech wise, with ambitions and passion that is kind of cute, it will have no real purpose. It falls even shorter of that "NG" that never happened, so it won't neither be an NG machine, nor a real retro machine. And they are pretty much being hand soldered by a dude in some basement, one at a time, prices are sci-fi high, and are they even a real company issuing a trustworthy warranty, paying VAT, taxes, social fees, having the product CE branded, etc? It's a hobby for a select few. The upcoming Commodore A1200 Reloaded might catch some interest from outside, attracting some nostalgic "home returners" though. But come on, for anyone to invest $10.000.000 for a product launch, they probably like to be guaranteed a credible return profit of at least 3-10x that much for it to be worth the risk. Is the potential really that high with any of the above mentioned product offerings? No, of course not.

I couldn't agree with you more. I think a relaunch of the Titanic would be more successful than any relaunch of the the Amiga trademark, IP, or hardware.

Personally, I fully agree with Trevor.
A small relaunch should start putting back together all the pieces (Commodore and Amiga related marks, remaining IPs), to have the credibility to attract small investors.

I still think there's space for a small but interesting business. But putting the pieces together is actually by far more difficult than finding investors. So we're just speculating.

Last edited by andres on 06-Feb-2017 at 07:40 PM.

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A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

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@andres

Quote:

But putting the pieces together is actually by far more difficult than finding investors.

The hard work is already done. The AmigaOS was wrestled from Amiga Inc/Delaware/Amiga Nowhere and stable reliable PowerPC hardware was designed where it didn't exist before. Buying Amiga.com and the remaining Amiga IP is simply a waiting game for the right price. The Commodore IP isn't worth anything since the Commodore Gaming company folded (with the great PC cases).

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

IMHO only real value of Amiga left after so many years is our Amiga community. Not so many people today know what was Amiga and Commodore back then. And that vanish more and more every day that passes by.

So spending huge amount of money for Commodore/Amiga IT is maybe wrong. Maybe we can invest 10 milions dollars in Amiga hardware, software and paying developers for their wonderfull job. Better spent money in real things with a real value, not virtual things like trademarks, domains etc. We can do a lot of things with that kind of money.

Last year I was writeing a news about AmigaOne X5000. I said in article that new Amiga is now called "AmigaOne X5000" and that "AmigaOS 4.1 FE" is new version of legendary AmigaOS from the past. Also that new companies have all needed licences. People accepted all this and discussed "new Amiga" B-) There were some positive comments, some negative. Some people asked why is Amiga so special in comparision with PC and others. So people without any knowledge of Amiga somehow knew that this is something special.....Amiga community.

http://www.bug.hr/vijesti/amiga-iz-21-stoljeca-prodaji/156543.aspx

So maybe old Commodore/Amiga IT is more important to us then to the rest of the world

-Dooz

@paolone

Quote:

Good point. Add to this that, if you're really going to spend 10M$ to realunch "the Amiga", then you have to face competition. Are you people here really sure that, outside of this community, anyone would use a strongly limited API system like our one, with scarce-to-no-at-all modern productivity software available, no 64 bit, no SMP, no memory protection, no security? Real truth is that if you want to sell an "Amiga computer" to the masses, then you need to provide it with a robust software environment people will be happy and free to use, with no '80-90s limitations. And you need to have all common software people use, unless you obviously go for the cloud where you can provide an Amiga thin client always connecting to a powerful Amiga Platform Software Provider which offers all people would need, from word processing to spreadsheet to DTP à-la Google Docs.

You wouldn't re-launch it as a full desktop computer, you'd go for a specialist area. Probably some sort of retro Amiga box which plays old and newer or remade games on the TV. Make it "hackable" so users can write their own software/games. Obviously it would be OS4/PPC based. You could then slowly build up the user base (and, importantly, software library) from there.

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@BigD

I'm inclined to agree that the Commodore name is unimportant if you're only interested in Amiga products. I think Escom was right to separate the brands. It's shame Commodore never span Amiga off while it was much healthier, Amiga could have continued it's success while Commodore concentrated on failing to make any meaningful impact on the IBM compatible market.

In my opinion having complete control and property over all marks and IPs is VERY important if you need to convince third party to invest some millions on your project.
But, this is just my opinion.

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A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

Home Recording Audio

@Trevor @AmigaCommunity

Just do it already !

@andres

Any potential investor would only care about the rights that are necessary and if you're intending to sell an Amiga product or line of products then you only need access to the Amiga brand and I.P.

A viable platform: fine. How many buyers are needed, and who is the target? What kind of product? Game oriented? (Many many tried before... Ouya,..) old school a la mini nes?

If the idea is to take existing OS/hardware and make it viable, I'm sorry but I don't see how it is possible... And it's not about the money.

Last edited by Leo on 06-Feb-2017 at 11:15 PM.

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@fishy_fis
Quote:

...but in my opinion any genuine relaunch attempt should pretty much scrap what has been done on the current NG systems and go the Apple route of using more modern existing technology and building an Amiga style user space on top.

I agree 100%

@Leo
Quote:

It seems both the hardware and the OS are in active development right now

Active development?
There's a big difference between Undead development and Active development.

@thread
I have actually stated this before. If you did it extremely lean it would require $6M, but I do agree with the $10M: It would still be lean but just not so extreme.
It would include a completely new OS (68k compatibility via emulation) and new hardware. And some new apps to solve problems more legantly than the other systems and also to showcase the potential.
You wouldn't waste time and/or money on licensing/buying old trademarks and brands. An new brand for a new century and a new audience. First task, get the machines into people's hands.

Last edited by agami on 07-Feb-2017 at 02:36 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

Quote:

It would include a completely new OS (68k compatibility via emulation) and new hardware.

Funny you all seem to mention a sum without any target nor type of product.

A new OS targeted at what ? What would it bring that Linux / Win / Mac / Android / whatever do not ?

As for the compatibility, seeing UAE even run PPC stuff now, I would say that it's more than enough, no need to waste time integrating.

Jay Miner, the original Amiga (OS) team: they all wanted to achieve something: create a very powerful game machine, write a multitask OS. Everything was new and unseen: the OS, the hardware.

The Amiga was different, but Jay & his team didn't want to make something different, but wanted something powerful: being different is a consequence.

If the goal of this project is just to release some new old PowerPC hardware and outdated OS just because it is different, I don't see the point.

What would be the achivement of the team working on this project?

The only thing that could work is some sort of "Mini Nes" or "C64 DTV" like device: include 30-40 games (inc. Beast,...) , make it plug & play, and sell it for 60€.

The other thing I would do is release the kickstart 1.x for free and the source of everything that can be released: preserve it, and thank the community for the support of the past years.

Then move along, and create something new.

Last edited by Leo on 07-Feb-2017 at 07:36 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 07-Feb-2017 at 07:31 AM.

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@thread

Seems nobody has thought of this angle... extremely simplified...

A) Take ownership of the IP

B) OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING

C) Start bringing the OS up to date with more developers (lots of room for debate here).

D) Perhaps pursue a 68K/PPC reunification? Vampire gets more powerful month by month. Throw 500K at the Apollo core and you could possibly have something like a 1GHz 68K processor that would kick most PPC's butt.

OK, now rip me to shreds.

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 07-Feb-2017 at 02:03 PM.

@gregthecanuck

Quote:

B) OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING

Easily said but Hyperion worked damn hard to obtain those sources even when Amiga Inc. licensed them they still didn't provide workable copies so why should all that work, sweat and tears lead to them giving it all away for free?

Linux gets a lot of press but I have no intention of using it now that Yellow Dog Linux was removed from the PS3 (that was a cool idea).

Quote:

C) Start bringing the OS up to date with more developers (lots of room for debate here).

So giving it away free will lead to a tidal surge of developers will it? That works for Linux because everyone owns x86 PCs and a lot of people think Windows sucks. There is no guarantee that AmigaOS could compete with Linux it would more than likely become an Amiga flavour Linux distro! Is that what we want?

Better to port to Arm and challenge RiscOS there on the Pi. If that works make custom ARM hardware or port to tablets. I don't think that requires an open source model. Let A-EON and Hyperion make some money!

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

When I first found out about the Amiga 500 it was not from fancy TV adverts or bill boards its was simple walking down tottenham court rd and seeing the Silver balls bouncing backwards and forwards in an animation. After seeing that I had to have one. The price was right the specs where amazing. Once I got my first Amiga 500 and my mates found out I had one and they came round to play on it they all got one as well after seeing it for the first time. The Amiga sold its self it did not need any fancy marketing it was all word of mouth. The A1222 could do the same if it is the right price and has good software bundle like art package and word software. I dont think im the only one that thinks Windows and apple have become boring over the years and is used just as a tool. The fun has gone out of computing we need a change and Amiga can with the right support. Achive putting the fun back into computing. Its not going to happen over night but with all the things going on with FPGA and the X series of AMigaones I feel a change is coming.

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