I would prefer a RaspberryPi port.

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So we must exercise ourselves in the things which bring happiness, since, if that be present, we have everything, and, if that be absent, all our actions are directed towards attaining it

Why not port OS4 properly to old PowerPC Apple hardware, should be easy enough.

Last edited by kolla on 30-Apr-2018 at 11:02 AM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Quote:

Why not port OS4 properly to old PowerPC Apple hardware, should be easy enough.

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x86/MorphOS 4.0

"Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise." -hyperionmp

"I've been a supporter of "REACTION" GUI because is an Amiga OS thing." -Snuffy

"I personally prefer a vision of do'ers and makers rather than

@kolla

In Amiga world all needs to be very hard and difficult.
So it should be too much easy to port it on a millions ppc macs (also notebooks) spare in the any angle of the globe.. also the documentation to port it should be too much easy to got, there are a lot of linux distro to examine to see how chipset stuff works!

I think they could sell up to 1000x OS4 licenses..
I hope at least for a port on ARM hardware, it's the today common neaest thing to old Amiga hw.
..Again mybe it could be too cheap for Amigans community..

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Pegasos II G4@1GHz 2GB Radeon 9250 256MB
AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

@g01df1sh

I think any new hardware available for AmigaOS4 or Morphos is a good thing. However at this point the high price point for PPC based systems is preventing people from even trying it out. At one point everyone needs to agree that PPC is on life support, and not the platform of the future. Intel PCs have too many different hardware components that drivers need to be constantly developed for. Personally I think everyone should get on the ARM wagon and port everything to Pi and/or ODROID. Even Apple is rumored to use ARM chips in their laptops in the near future.

@Madlax

POWER is not really ppc.

Apple moved to x86 and screwed a large portion of their loyal base.
Guess what? They're going to do it again.

Keep in mind, Apple is a hardware/advertizing outfit. Sell more stuff, make more money. Loyal users? Only those that keep buying. Support 'costs' money.

As for AOS on RPi (or similar) I'm all for it. However, if people do try it and like it where do they go from that point? Two RPis' ?

And, how much would you pay for an OS that runs on a 35 USD computer? Would you expect free updates? Trevor has his heart and a pile of time and money in Amiga.

I'm sure the X5000 is a good machine. It's just not for everyone due to its limitations.

Perhaps A-eon could develop a 'video toaster' type card for AOS to fit into one of these computers and make some money. How about a complete MIDI studio on a card?

All I'm saying is go read up on POWER9 before condemming it. Also keep in mind that Raptor Computer Systems has stated they are working on a single ATX processor board ( don't know how many slices ) that might be ready later this year at a lower cost.

The future is open in all directions.

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Tinkering with computers.

@Madlax

Here's the most recent thread on such matters:

What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?

If you don't have time to read all that, don't worry; I'm sure we'll be going over the same ground again in a few months.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Signal

Quote:

Perhaps A-eon could develop a 'video toaster' type card for AOS to fit into one of these computers and make some money

Special video cards are not needed because everything is digital nowadays.

Quote:

How about a complete MIDI studio on a card?

What do you mean with "MIDI studio" ?

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Signal

I was responding within the context of "Why not OS4?" and the answer is still "no, I wouldn't spend money on it." :)

@Tomppeli

Quote:

What do you mean with "MIDI studio" ?

probably general midi along with midi i/o breakout port which already has been basic functionality of sound cards since decades and has been partly obsoleted by the obsolescence of midi itself in comparison with the currently used interfaces and protocols.

@wawa

Quote:

...the obsolescence of midi itself in comparison with the currently used interfaces and protocols.

If there's something better/newer than MIDI, tell me what it is!

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Signal

there is no future in your sense, open or not

They will not port it to any other platform, not to RPi (ARM), not to AMD64 and certainly they will not add new PPC hardware

Trevor is mainly financing any development now. He has financed X1000 and might regained his money, he has financed X5000 and I assume project is still in red. He has financed Tabor and not available yet. Hardware support still not complete. Assuming they would announce a shift to ARM don´t you think that would harm X5000 sales and more important potential Tabor sales?

It is pure fantasy what you are talking about as if Hyperion could do whatever people ask for, they have contracts with a-eon regarding PPC that are not fullfiled yet, the second core on X1000 is unused too. They have potentially a lot to do before making a ISA shift. New hardware (even PPC) is not the biggest problem now.

@OlafS25

if they would have been interested in low-cost PPC hardware Hyperion could have gone the same route as MorphOS, supporting used PPC Macs. They did not so I assume it is not their interest. And no hardware producer will pay them for supporting the hardware because the market is too small, Hyperion on the other side obviously has no resources. And A-eon (Trevor) certainly will not finance additional hardware as long current projects (X5000 and Tabor) are not on track.

@wawa

Quote:

probably general midi along with midi i/o breakout port which already has been basic functionality of sound cards since decades and has been partly obsoleted by the obsolescence of midi itself in comparison with the currently used interfaces and protocols.

The most of the recent new hardware has the old 5 pin DIN MIDI connections still. So the old MIDI is not disappearing anywhere. Many synthesizers can send MIDI commands over USB cable as well. As I understand it, DAW commands are sent over the MIDI as well.

You should check your attitude.

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@OlafS25

Quote:

They will not port it to any other platform, not to RPi (ARM), not to AMD64 and certainly they will not add new PPC hardware

At this stage in the game they certainly need to add new PPC hardware. An expensive board with a CPU like a G3 that is incompatible with a G3 isn't the best situation. Seems a good time to out source as the current built to machines are looking like a charade.

Quote:

Hardware support still not complete. Assuming they would announce a shift to ARM don´t you think that would harm X5000 sales and more important potential Tabor sales?

They only need to be sold and then after that forget about it. I mean, the X1000 is off the shelf now, so a shift to ARM wouldn't hurt X1000 sales now.

Though the X1000 is supported indirectly through the Enhancer package.

Quote:

It is pure fantasy what you are talking about as if Hyperion could do whatever people ask for

Well, AmigaOS4 is a fantasy, yet we are living the dream.

Yes, new affordable and powerful hardware would be good, so perhaps the only way to realise this is to create an optimised AmigaOS4 emulator running on an ARM board or something.

Yes there would be performance loss but throw in some brute force power and a reasonable price that should compensate for that loss.

Everything is still MIDI, though new equipment tend to do it over USB, or do it via software. I have plenty of MIDI controllers, and they are great also for other use than music, for example as controllers for simulator games :)

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@Tomppeli

Quote:

Many synthesizers can send MIDI commands over USB cable as well. As I understand it, DAW commands are sent over the MIDI as well.

im not up to date, i dont play keyboards much since years, if you exclude a grand piano, but thats what i assume, usb might have incorporated, been alternative to or replaced midi, where appropriate. on the other hand as i understand it midi is just some serial protocol that doesnt need much speed and can be transferred by some wire between whatsoever sort of connectors. whats rather important is backward compatibility, especially of these connectors.

Quote:

You should check your attitude.

not sure what you are about again. (im not questioning midi as a standard, why should i)

Last edited by wawa on 04-May-2018 at 06:59 PM.

@Tomppeli

When I spoke of a Amiga MIDI studio card I was thinking of something similar to but more than the SBLive! EMU10Kx cards.

Just now I ran Timidity using SF2 soundfonts on a 4 core x86 and it used up to 46% of 1 core and 5% of another. Not bad, still had 3 cores available. The same tune using the same SoundFont on the RPi3 used 34% on core1 15% of core2 and 29% of core4, core3 was at 0%. ( You can probably subtract 5-7% on each of those results due to the System Monitor use.) The SBLive! using it's internal SoundFont, which requires a special loader, uses almost 0% CPU to do the same thing.

If AmigaOS/MorphOS and a card with enough onboard RAM to hold a massive amount of GUS patches or SoundFonts and a MIDI sequencer/player simialar to Rosegarden on Linux.


It should also have IN, OUT, and THRU external connectors and perhaps USB in/out.

The computer can use this card for all system sounds and game sounds.

Would this ever happen? ......... never.


edit; The only thing the cpu should have to do is move a MIDI song to the MIDI Studio card. Think chip RAM.

Last edited by Signal on 04-May-2018 at 10:01 PM.

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Tinkering with computers.

@Signal

Quote:

POWER is not really ppc.

Not completely true.

In the strictest sense, PPC is a subset of Power, the last branch derived from Power 4 (the IBM 970).
But all latter Power cpus are backward compatible, and Power 9 can run both little endian and big endian code and is compatible with our current code base.
Also, I've seen references to later Power cpus as Power PCs.

Further, if the price of a Raptor Engineering Talos II is compared to an X5000, and the performance per dollar ratio is included in the analysis, the Talos II comes off looking pretty good.

And Raptor is designing a simpler single cpu model which should cost less.

A four core Power 9 based system would be capable of supporting four times as many concurrent threads a P5040 based X5000/40 (16 vs. 4), AND it would run at higher clock speeds.

So if SMP is ever adopted, we are talking about a cpu that would provide about a 500% improvement in performance, giving us parity X64 hardware.

Yeah, it would cost more, but it wouldn't be the dreadful compromise the A1022 represents.

From my point of view, that's the real question, are we going to support modern Power cpus, or are we switching to X64.

Because the P1022 isn't really suited to desktop applications, and I don't want something that comes off badly when compared to a PowerMac G4 (let alone a G5), I want MORE.

Last edited by arthoropod on 05-May-2018 at 01:21 AM.

@arthoropod

Performance is not that important as price. I can´t justify spending my half year salary for a computer. RPi is successful not because of performance, but because of its low price.

Although expected price for Tabor is still too high for mainstream market, it may be low enough for many people with Amiga background, unlike the X1000, X5000 or Talos.