I thought it would be interesting to hear what Amiga users think about the Amiga parties vs Hyperion court case. Ben Hermans thought it was better to wait for a case judgment. It appears the wait for a judgement is holding up Amiga related products. Justice delayed is justice denied.

@matthey

C, D and E

@matthey

Cloanto bought the Amiga IP after Hyperion settlement agreement, that pretty much gave Hyperion exclusive rights. The legal proceedings is a result of Cloanto becoming a IP troll.

Hyperion has had all the cost of development of the OS, it makes sense that they should get some right to use and sell what they have created.

Amiga Inc was not interested in the OS, that why first out sourced it to H&P and then to Hyperion.
Amiga Inc interests was in DE / AA ( Digital Environment, later renamed Anywhere), and the mobile market (Java like platform), when that failed, they went after Hyperion.

Amiga Inc period is story about mismanaged company, with lack of resources to pull of what they wanted, and disconnect with the Amiga community. And company not able to cooperate with companies they out sourced the work too. Many things went wrong under development of the HW and so the OS was delayed, and that might be catalyst to legal disputes. Already in 2004 Amiga Inc had financial turbels, this result in shell companies. They also created fake companies like Amiga India.

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NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

Cloanto bought the Amiga IP after Hyperion settlement agreement, that pretty much gave Hyperion exclusive rights. The legal proceedings is a result of Cloanto becoming a IP troll.

Hyperion expected Amiga Inc. or the current owner of the contract to abide by the agreement. Recall the nasty letter Ben Hermans sent to Bill McEwen?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1kSIJR_3xeJbDfnBS2ZmcsgMZV82OXuTq/edit Quote:

From: Ben Hermans Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 10:06 AM To: 'billmcewen@xxxmail.com' Subject: Friendly proposal before regretful court action Hi Bill, It appears you stepped down as CEO and president or whatever titles you were holding at Amiga Inc. In the process you let the Amiga US trademarks expire. I had to retain a specialized law-firm to refile the trademarks. Which cost quite a bit of money and is blatant violation of the settlement agreement between the Amiga Parties and Hyperion. They pointed me to some friendly litigators over in Seattle who are experts at tracking down former execs and officers of companies and dragging them in to court (in whatever state they are hiding). I assume you rather avoid that expense and annoyance. Your EU trademarks are still valid. If you sign them over to Hyperion, we can avoid this unpleasantness. You know representation is going to cost you whatever happens. Please confirm you agree to sign over the Amiga held EU trademarks in Europe to Hyperion within the next 3 business days or we will file a claim against both the defunct Amiga entity and yourself personally. I can't give you more time because we are up against a statute of limitation so we are not going to take chances. Fair warning Bill. You save a lot of hassle and money in return for something you walked away from. Please do reply. You know I am not the one to talk big and then not follow up on my actions. I trust you will see the extremely reasonable nature of my proposal. Otherwise the gloves come off. Your call. Best regards,

Isn't it fair that Hyperion would have to keep their end of the contract? I would still like to know what Amiga Inc. got out of the contract that they did not already have besides not being intimidated and sued by Ben like this e-mail demonstrates (is this Ben trying to intimidate Bill to sign over ownership under duress?). It appear to me like Amiga Inc., the owner of the Amiga IP, only gained obligations from the 2009 contract which are a liability. Where is the quid pro quo?

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Hyperion violated,
stole,
lied,
misrepresented.

It's a noncompany deserving to be torn asunder,
not polls and the benefit of doubt that comes with them.

CASE CLOSED
ALL RISE



/MEGA!

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@matthey

I guess ben was frustrated by being sued by different Amiga Inc companies registered to different states. ITec LLC / KMOS buys Amiga Inc in March 2004.

The buy back agreement, guaranties that Hyperion can continue the development of the OS, if Amiga Inc goes into bankruptcy. it shoud have ended already in 2004.

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@Matthey

Quote:

Ben Hermans thought it was better to wait for a case judgment.

Given that a large percentage of the Hyperion Entertainment filings were delays (some with preposterous excuses), I have a difficult time getting the jigsaw puzzle pieces of "words vs actions" to assemble into a recognizable image.

#6

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#6 Quote:

Given that a large percentage of the Hyperion Entertainment filings were delays (some with preposterous excuses), I have a difficult time getting the jigsaw puzzle pieces of "words vs actions" to assemble into a recognizable image.

The delaying tactics have worked well so far. The judge doesn't seem to mind Hyperion's pettiness and without the injunction, Hyperion still has healthy 68k AmigaOS profits rolling in. It's easy enough for Ben to get lulled into thinking that Hyperion has the judge's favor. I would have also thought this poll on Amigaworld.net, which has strong AmigaOS 4 support, would have more users saying Hyperion did not violate the contract. It is a good thing for Ben that it is not a jury trial and that the judge has been favorable to Hyperion. Still, the poll results would look scary to me if I was in his shoes.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @matthey Cloanto bought the Amiga IP after Hyperion settlement agreement, that pretty much gave Hyperion exclusive rights. The legal proceedings is a result of Cloanto becoming a IP troll. Hyperion has had all the cost of development of the OS, it makes sense that they should get some right to use and sell what they have created. Amiga Inc was not interested in the OS, that why first out sourced it to H&P and then to Hyperion. Amiga Inc interests was in DE / AA ( Digital Environment, later renamed Anywhere), and the mobile market (Java like platform), when that failed, they went after Hyperion. Amiga Inc period is story about mismanaged company, with lack of resources to pull of what they wanted, and disconnect with the Amiga community. And company not able to cooperate with companies they out sourced the work too. Many things went wrong under development of the HW and so the OS was delayed, and that might be catalyst to legal disputes. Already in 2004 Amiga Inc had financial turbels, this result in shell companies. They also created fake companies like Amiga India.

IP troll? Exclusive rights? You don't know what you talk about!

Care to tell me why Hyperion has removed the copyright from the first AmigaOS 3.1.4 ROMs if they had exclusive rights?

@matthey

https://mobile.twitter.com/AmigaCorp/status/1398415434752348165

The above being just one example...

This is about the law and certainly not about showing any favoritism. Regardless, given Judge Martinez has been involved with this for 13? years now and the fact that he's headed for retirement, I should think that someone basically overturning their own attorney's agreement because it didn't suit him...

The truth about this will be revealed at the appropriate time, when the innocent shall be able to speak without the threat of retaliations.

nuff said.

#6

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@matthey

Back in 2001 AminoClowns thought they had f##### Hyperion with the contract and would get full ownership of the OS by paying pennies.

Back in 2001 Bunny Hormons thought he had f##### AInc with the contract and would just have to wait for their bankruptcy to get the whole IP royalty free.

It started with 2 incompetent scam artists meeting and the "settlement" is just another pathetic chapter in that saga.

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@cdimauro

Quote:

Care to tell me why Hyperion has removed the copyright from the first AmigaOS 3.1.4 ROMs if they had exclusive rights?

Well, I’m not Ben, so I can’t answer that. But was got from talking to Ben, was that he was willing compromise and agree to some kind of new settlement agreement. Ben is not interested in destroying Cloanto’s business. Anyhow that’s up to Mike Battilana to be willing sit down and work out an agreement where etch company can co-exist.

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@matthey

I lost interest a long time ago.

Amino/ITec LLC/KMOS/MKOS/whatever was a shell game and smoke and mirrors.

If Ben ever actually cared about OS4, he lost this focus years ago, and seems to be only interested in dragging out this court case forever.

I have no quarrel with Cloanto or Mike Battilana.

---
redfox

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@redfox

Quote:

If Ben ever actually cared about OS4, he lost this focus years ago,

That’s not my impression from talking to him, he crazy Amiga nut like everyone else.
He looked Forword to ending the lawsuit, so he can invest in some software development again.
Also I noticed that Ben, and Trever looked to have friendly relationship from distance, despite what happened between the two.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Thanks for the clarification regarding Ben. I never met him.

---
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@redfox

Yeh, he nice guy I did expect to get answer to some of my questions, he was interested in my projects and know about some of my project, too. I think he was as interested in talking to me, as I was to talk with him. I did see him on Amiga GBG in Sweden many years ago, and that was a completely different Ben.

This version of ben was humble, he did not try to excuse anything.

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#6 Quote:

https://mobile.twitter.com/AmigaCorp/status/1398415434752348165 The above being just one example... This is about the law and certainly not about showing any favoritism. Regardless, given Judge Martinez has been involved with this for 13? years now and the fact that he's headed for retirement, I should think that someone basically overturning their own attorney's agreement because it didn't suit him...

From Ben's perspective, the 68k AmigaOS is the life blood of Hyperion right now. The retro 68k Amiga market is alive and growing while the PPC AmigaOS 4 business model is broken and never worked. He knows it even if Trevor hasn't faced reality. Hyperion likely goes under without 68k AmigaOS sales and if the profit is awarded to the Amiga parties so he is willing to gamble taking bigger risks than he should. We want 68k AmigaOS development to continue as it seems to be headed in the right direction toward AmigaOS 4 API compatibility. Ben needs a more favorable way out of his corner. I suggested a multi-business merger earlier and then he would at least receive stock that has a chance to appreciate. These small Amiga businesses need to pool their resources, stop reinventing the wheel and stop stepping on each others feet. Trevor needs to wake up and get on board too. A-EON's business model is also broken and just a tax deduction for Trevor's Amiga hobby. Exit the PPC "AmigaOne" desktop and enter the 68k "Amiga" rebirth, in retro, hobby and embedded form. It wouldn't take much for 68k Amiga hardware to compete with 10 year old PPC embedded hardware.

Judges are supposed to be impartial and apply the law. There is still room for variable decisions within the law. Right now, Judge Martinez is busy and is likely hoping for a negotiated settlement as it has been close before. Even the Amiga parties have accepted delays at times. At some point, "justice delayed is justice denied" certainly applies. Ben really should try harder to negotiate a deal considering the risk of a judgement in the Amiga parties favor.

#6 Quote:

The truth about this will be revealed at the appropriate time, when the innocent shall be able to speak without the threat of retaliations. nuff said.

Another Amiga book? I hope we get more than a book this time. The retro Amiga momentum is stronger than ever. We need to open the flood gates and let Amiga make it possible again.

@matthey

Opening the flood gates really begins only when the operating system issue is settled.
I am -not- going to attempt to convince you or even indicate to you that the following was a hint from Mike about the possibility of a "maxi".

But when asked about an Amiga Maxi (at Amiga 37) for example, he responded diplomatically with a question, not a statement. I'll paraphrase it but you can hear the exact wording in Amiga Bill's post show walk through, which included a short interview with Mike.

The question:
Would it make sense to develop more of a complete Amiga (like the Maxi) system without being able to use/access/show/expose the operating system?

You are aware that the deals to date involve -not- doing such a thing. What the hackers have done on their own does not apply.

We're talking about what Amiga Corp can do themselves legally given the current situation and the fact that they have always opted to avoid anything the slightest bit risky that would spur further conflict.

#6.

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@#6
You must have missed my recent post.

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44694&forum=16&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#856446

I already transcribed that portion of the video.

Commodore Amiga - Live from Amiga37 (1:01) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1625889488 Quote:

Amiga Bill: But speaking of hardware, I know you probably can't say but a lot of people have been talking how much they love the Amiga 500 Mini and they want to know about a Maxi. Is there any chance of a Maxi in the Future? Michele Battilana: What do you want a Maxi without the operating system? Amiga Bill: No. Michele Battilana: So, there needs to be a solution that meets also the constraints, which right now, so you know, Cloanto and Amiga and the Amiga parties took prudent approach. We preferred to wait until the legal issue has clarity. Also, others think they should jump faster and risk. We are more risk adverse. I can not speak for our partners. I think the Mini is doing very well now. It's a form factor, a price point and has this power flow effect that appeals to the masses. A Maxi might be more of a niche product which certainly now you have challenges like pandemic. Logistics like a container used to cost $1,000 now its $20,000. Chip constraints, chips not being available and costing ten times as much. These devices are proof that you can with a nice group deliver hardware in spite of all of this and deliver hardware in quantities than normal Amiga hobby manufacturing can not reach with their scale. Here we can talk about hundreds of thousands of units, sure. An Amiga Maxi with hundreds of thousands of units would be cool but it should be legally available maybe with an operating system and not just games.

@matthey

My apologies. Yes, I missed your post.

However, there is no harm in repeating the thoughts imo, as some people still might not have grasped the concepts expressed. heh.

#6

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