@agami

Thank you for providing some context for your remarks.



redfox

@agami

Quote:

I was content to be a wallflower in this one were it not for that one line. I just can’t abide snide.

I don't think that alef declaring that he doesn't regret buying an expensive toy is "derogatory in a nasty, insinuating manner" (i.e., snide). Clearly something about it is triggering you. When I read his post, I just thought "good for you," and didn't feel like my worldview was being threatened.

Come on, let him enjoy his hobby without you going all grumpy old man on him.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@BigD

Quote:

So, that's quad core right? Can you use 4 cores under Linux?

One thing that would be cool if possible was having both AmigaOS and Linux running under hypervisor and allow it to open Linux apps from the Amiga side, akin to how Winuae does

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@redfox

don't take agami seriously
have fun

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @agami I don't think that alef declaring that he doesn't regret buying an expensive toy is "derogatory in a nasty, insinuating manner" (i.e., snide).

If he hadn’t used ALL CAPS, then maybe.

I don’t write things hastily or frivolously. He knows what he typed, and the how and why of it. You guys want to file it under ‘lost in translation’, go ahead.

Words have meaning.

Last edited by agami on 06-Mar-2024 at 08:01 AM.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@agami

Quote:

If he hadn’t used ALL CAPS, then maybe. I don’t write things hastily or frivolously. He knows what he typed, and the how and why of it. You guys want to file it under ‘lost in translation’, go ahead. Words have meaning.

I don't think anything is lost in translation. What he said is pretty clear. You, on the other hand, are acting like he insulted you personally and needs to be taught a lesson. Triggered over someone loudly proclaiming that they bought an X5000 and don't regret it. It might be worth asking yourself why that irks you so much...**

Hans


** NOTE: The question is for personal reflection. No need to share with everyone else.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

agami Quote:

If he hadn’t used ALL CAPS, then maybe. I don’t write things hastily or frivolously. He knows what he typed, and the how and why of it. You guys want to file it under ‘lost in translation’, go ahead. Words have meaning.

Alef's post may have been arrogant but I believe it is more likely innocent excitement followed by buyer's remorse. In other words, he may be trying to convince himself that such an expensive purchase for old hardware is worthwhile and justified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer's_remorse Quote:

Buyer's remorse is the sense of regret after having made a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of an expensive item such as a vehicle or real estate. Buyer's remorse is thought to stem from cognitive dissonance, specifically post-decision dissonance, that arises when a person must make a difficult decision, such as a heavily invested purchase between two similarly appealing alternatives. Factors that affect buyer's remorse may include: resources invested, the involvement of the purchaser, whether the purchase is compatible with the purchaser's goals, feelings encountered post-purchase that include regret.

Many Amiga users consider an AmigaOne and then compare a RPi 4, RPi 5 or PC with much better value before deciding it is an AmigaNOne. Where impulse buying is a catalyst for purchases based on value, buyer's remorse is an impediment at the opposite end of the value scale. Some customers may try to return the product if their inner logic wins the buyer's remorse battle. The fact that buyer's remorse is triggered shows just how bad Trevor is at throwing his money away to sustain a long dead hobby. AmigaNOne production numbers paint a pretty good picture too where the low production numbers and aging PPC embedded hardware only makes it worse over time. If he wasn't so oblivious, maybe he would look for ways to increase value other than PPC AmigaOS SMP which has been a work in progress for over a decade. Irving Gould was an oblivious investor that didn't understand hardware value resulting in the collapse of C= and the end of the Amiga. Trevor seems destined to finish off the Amiga legacy with a lack of understanding of hardware value too.

Last edited by matthey on 06-Mar-2024 at 09:33 AM.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @redfox don't take agami seriously have fun

Yeah, unleash those four cores in a righteous AmigaOS fury of usage...don't know how that's possible right now?!? But at least there's Linux!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

FFS guys, just let him enjoy it.

@alef

What's the complete spec?

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

@Karlos

I can feel happy for Calvin Harris rediscovering his love for Octamed and the A1200 but the love of a box of wire and a PPC CPU for the sake of it...ummm no...!

Maybe if alef cared to share what he's actually enjoying about using it we might be more excited! It doesn't have worth in and of itself as the software in my view has not caught up with the hardware features even now!

Last edited by BigD on 06-Mar-2024 at 10:04 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Look, you know my position on expensive boutique PPC hardware. That doesn't mean I begrudge someone enjoying it if that's what floats their proverbial boat.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

@BigD

I don't care about Octamed.
I don't use 8 bit audio software.
It's passed so many years ago.

@matthey

matthey start his usual anit ppc propaganda bs.
matthey forget that we Amiga ppc has rpi also and know real performance of rpi.
native ppc code will run 10 times faster on Amiga X500 than 68k code on emulator on rpi.

@Karlos

it is real
it is not boring pc
so why not

ppcamiga1 Quote:

matthey start his usual anti ppc propaganda bs. matthey forget that we Amiga ppc has rpi also and know real performance of rpi. native ppc code will run 10 times faster on Amiga X5000 than 68k code on emulator on rpi.

Maybe on your RPi 3, the X5000 is 10 times faster at executing native PPC code than the RPi 3 can emulate 68k code but I specifically said RPi 4 and RPi 5.

CPU | single core DMIPS/MHz
Cell 0.6 (PS3)
Xenon 0.6 (XBox 360)
PPC603e 1.4
PPC601 1.4
68060 1.8
PPC7410 1.8 (early G4)
e300 1.9 (Efika)
PPC440/460EX 2.0 (Sam440/460)
Cortex-A53 2.1 (RPi 3)
PA6T 2.2 (X1000)
PPC750 2.3 (G3)
Gekko 2.3 (Nintendo Gamecube)
Broadway 2.3 (Nintendo Wii)
Expresso 2.3 (Nintendo Wii U)
QorIQ-P1022/e500v2 2.4 (A1222)
SiFive U74 2.6 (RISC-V SiFive VisionFive 2 $49 USD Kickstarter SBC with better GPU than RPi 4)
PPC970 2.9 (G5)
P5020 3.0 (X5000)
Cortex-A72 5.5 (RPi 4)
Cortex-A76 6.6 (RPi 5)

The first PPC AmigaOne used a PPC G3 CPU that only had a ~0.5 DMIPS/MHz performance advantage over the 68060. A sub $100 RPi 5 Cortex-A76 CPU core has a ~3.6 DMIPS/MHz advantage over an X5000 core giving it more than double the performance using this rough integer performance metric. Native PPC code performance on a X5000 CPU core likely still is better than 68k emulation on a RPi 5 CPU core but it is far from 10 times better. The X5000 PPC CPU performance is not bad but the value is horrible due to the expensive cost. PPC CPU hardware value is getting worse due to aging silicon that is now more out of date than the 68060 was when PPC AmigaOne hardware first "replaced" it. I also prefer real hardware over emulation but the reality is a future of emulation for both the 68k Amiga and PPC Amiga without drastically cost reduced hardware. Another reality is that PPC Amiga demand is a fraction of retro 68k Amiga demand meaning there is practically no chance for PPC Amiga hardware success while mass production of competitive 68k Amiga hardware may be possible. Even that chance diminishes every day as not only is the silicon getting old but so are Amiga fans. Another lost Amiga decade and AmigaNOne will be sealed as the last Amiga legacy, a legacy of failure that will soon be forgotten.

Last edited by matthey on 06-Mar-2024 at 08:02 PM.

@matthey

stop this crap.
amiga is hobby. hobby have to be fun.
there is no fun in making software for emulator.
provide fast real 68k or get lost.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 06-Mar-2024 at 06:59 PM.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @Karlos it is real it is not boring pc so why not

I didn't say anything. We're in rare agreement for once. Just because I wouldn't buy or recommend one, doesn't mean I don't want someone who has bought one to have fun with it.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

@alef

Quote:

alef wrote: I DID IT! I BOUGHT A BRAND NEW AmigaOne X5000 - 040 And I DON'T regret it! Thou' it cost me 37.500 NOK to get it home. !!!

In order that we don't get into a major flame war on this thread, can you please outline the "fun" you plan to have with your new computer? I wish you all the fun in the world but would ask that you illuminate the rest of us to the joy and unique experience that you are embarking on! Obviously, we are already aware of the unique "fun" of the object-oriented GUI that is Workbench under AmigaOS and so we would ask that you outline some of the programs or indeed games that you plan to use on your new baby!

Last edited by BigD on 06-Mar-2024 at 07:50 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

How is that your business?

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

ppcamiga1 Quote:

stop this crap. amiga is hobby. hobby have to be fun. there is no fun in making software for emulator. provide fast real 68k or get lost.

Wouldn't the X5000 with ~50% more single core integer CPU performance than your Sam be more fun? Why haven't you bought one for your hobby? How many months do you have to work in Poland to be able to afford a X5000?

The C= 68k Amiga was an affordable personal computer for the masses not the classes. It was the affordability of the 68k Amiga that made it popular in Europe, especially Eastern Europe where few people could afford a PC for the classes. It lost popularity when its value faded in the early 1990s due to not upgrading the value fast enough ("Read my lips, no new chips." and no accelerator bundles). The PPC AmigaNOne is a PC for the classes where it is likely you can't justify a X5000 purchase yourself and you have perhaps forgotten what made the humble 68k Amiga available to you. Even if you have become wealthy in Poland and you are so happy with your Sam that you don't want a X5000, what about your friends and neighbors? How many of them can afford a X5000? How many of them own a X5000?

Personally, here in the U.S. where most people can afford an X5000, I know nobody with one due to horrible value. In contrast, two of the oldest and closest Amiga fans to me have health problems including one on hospice diagnosed with cancer and another diagnosed with early stage dementia. The former gave me his huge Amiga collection and the latter got me started in the Amiga. The Amiga dies as a failure with the fans as it is not proliferating. Even the children I introduced to the Amiga and that like the Amiga are middle aged now. Most children today have never heard of the Amiga and know nothing about the Amiga. This is the Amiga legacy as an expensive hobby for the classes.

Last edited by matthey on 06-Mar-2024 at 08:55 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 06-Mar-2024 at 08:52 PM.