@Hans
I get the version 1.5.1. But the programm version say only 1.5 19.12.2006

Last edited by AmigaPapst on 15-Nov-2007 at 03:47 PM.

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@Hans

Freespace 2 no public port. Presents AmiGBG 2005:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=1&rev_id=130&sort_by

@AmigaPapst

Have you how many memory?
Quake III strongly recommended 512MB ram. 170MB free, absolutely minimum.

I have 512 MB Ram. This is not a memory problem. I think the Quake 3 Port is very dirty. The frieden brothers mentioned this already.
Please post you timedemo test with Quake 3 in this list, thanks.

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@AmigaPapst

I didn't update the version number in MiniGL itself. The README file says V1.5.1 though.

When you say freezes in the menus, do you mean a complete freeze? or a temporary one? I seem to recall someone mentioned menu freezes before (in older versions). Please remember that it's a very quick and dirty port so there are issues with it. Wasn't someone working on improving it?

The slight slowdown is to be expected. In order to prevent audio stuttering, the Warp3D context must be locked/unlocked more often.

Hans

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@ AmigaPapst

24.6 fps (AONE G4XE 933Mhz, Radeon 9000Pro, 512MB ram)

My old test (with only 256MB and old minigl.library) 29fps.

Hmm

@Hans
Total freeze. Only a hardreset help.
The menu freezes with older minigl versions also, but with the new library is extrem.

>Wasn't someone working on improving it?

I think no, the frieden brothers create this port and have no time at the moment to improving. Ask them if you want to work on the source.

>The slight slowdown is to be expected.

Why?
DL give much more speed or?
Look at there:
http://www.lighthouse3d.com/opengl/displaylists

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Display lists only speed things up if you use them.

Since that Quake port was based on MiniGL that didn't support display lists, it doesn't use them.

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@xeron
Ah ok, thank you for this information.

I hope someone will create a Quake 3 port with display lists.

Last edited by AmigaPapst on 15-Nov-2007 at 06:18 PM.

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@AmigaPapst

Normally display lists are put in to video memory, I think some graphics cards can use this directly, but not on AmigaOS4.

The beigest problem her is that we have MiniGL is a kind of wrapper on top Warp3D, so in other word, there are no speed benefits because display lists are never put in to videomemory, if I under stand this correctly, the only benefit is that now you don’t need remove support for display lists, hopefully this makes poring easy and writing new 3D programs, and when new Mesa based hardware drives comes, then display list might be moved over to graphic cards memory, giving games the extra boost they need.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2007 at 04:28 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2007 at 04:26 PM.

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@AmigaPapst

I have no plans to work on the Quake III port. IIRC, someone did in fact take the source-code and start looking at improving it (possibly over on amigans.net).

I've already explained why it's slightly slower above. It's due to the additional locking/unlocking of the Warp3D context. There's a lot of overhead due to Picasso96 not knowing anything about 3D; consequently, Warp3D has to reinitialize a lot of stuff every time (see more here. The only way around this is a new graphics system which supports 3D properly. That's probably going to be part of Amiga OS4.1.

Please note that display lists won't give any performance improvements, even if you do use them. MiniGL simply records the commands, and then executes them. There are no graphics-driver optimizations. AFAIK, MESA does the same thing (possibly even slower, StormMESA uses a dirty big switch statement to execute calls). The only situation in which display lists are faster is if drawing routines compute vertices on the fly (e.g. glVertex2f(sin(theta), cos(theta)), because the values are recorded and used directly, instead of recomputed every time.

My advice to people writing things from scratch is to not use display lists, but use vertex arrays instead. They are faster; plus that could allow you to use vertex buffers in MESA (which are even faster). Also, MiniGL's flat shading is actually slower than the smooth shading, due to having to call W3D_SetCurrentColor() for every polygon.

Hans

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@Mufa
Quote:

@Hans Freespace 2 no public port. Presents AmiGBG 2005: http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=1&rev_id=130&sort_by

That's a pity, as I would have liked to try this one. In particular, they mention audio stuttering in that link. I'd like to know if my MiniGL update solved this one (or at least reduced it).

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 15-Nov-2007 at 06:49 PM.

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@Hans:

Yes, it fixes the problem. But something is trashing the memory... Don't know what I need to investigate more on this. It is killing the memory lists which is pretty bad.
Anyway, nice work!
Thanks!

@Hans / AmigaPapst

Radov was working on Q3:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22540&forum=32
http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&type=&topic_id=596&forum=11

Quote:

Since that Quake port was based on MiniGL that didn't support display lists, it doesn't use them.

Considering that none of the Quake versions ever supported display lists, it doesn't matter at all, really.

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@ZeroG
I knew that someone will dig it up

Ok. I owe You all some news:
- new version of QIII game is not canceled - but paused. There's (unfornatelly) very good reason: I'm going to finish my highschool in a few months and have to spend all my free time on the graduate work.

As far - I made some attempts to port that game. It allows me to gain some necessary experiances. Last sources were 'almost' able to load and render some of the Quake3 data files (nothing impresive if I have to be honest ) - but it was 'dead end'.
In my actual approach I'm going to create something that may be called "universal 3D engine" with the ability of reading QuakeIII data files. The main goal is to provide You with well documented, easy tu understand sources of a 3D game engine. It will be easy to add new modifications such: diffrent GUI, render effects, game physics (and much more).
Hope to show You something working in a near future

Best regards,
Radov

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@hans
@rogue
@entilzha

What is next step for a complete set of OpenGL libray on OS4?

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@AmigaBlitter

A new graphics system and a full MESA port. Warp3D is not going to be updated any more. MiniGL might be updated a bit in the mean time, but ultimately, MESA is the way to go.

Hans

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Quote:

A new graphics system and a full MESA port. Warp3D is not going to be updated any more. MiniGL might be updated a bit in the mean time, but ultimately, MESA is the way to go.

Nothing to add, really. Seeing that MESA is at OpenGL 2.1 now and will probably be 3.0 at one point, there is no point in trying anything else.

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@Rogue

Does OpenGL 3.0 have lots whit common whit OpenGL 2.1?

Is it worth porting to the 2.1 API, or is better to wait for th 3.0 API? what do you think?

or is irrelevant because hardware layer (driver layer), can the 2.1 and 3.0 API exist at the same time in the system?

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