@ChrisH

Rubbish ChrisH.

VHS replace Beta MAX, DVD's replaced VHS and BLUE RAY and other will replace DVD.
You need a consortium to win and PPC consortium is the real winner.

Be prepared to be boarded and assimilated.

PPC SAM 440 EP Rocks. Amiga OS = True OS

Last edited by meet.mrnrg on 27-Dec-2007 at 03:32 PM.

_________________
Quote:

Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online

MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

There is a fine line(about the width of an atom) between being optimistic and naive. I think some have crossed that line.

_________________
AmigaOne-XE G3 OS 4.
A4000 PPC
A1200 PPC

@polka.

I have not bought one. I am waiting to see if OS4 comes out for the SAM or somebody comes up with a way to run OS4 classic on the Sam.

_________________
Questions are a burden to others.
Answers are a prison for oneself.

Two A2000's with no working harddrives.
One Efika with MorphOS 2.2
One HP Netbook running Amikit.

@Beamish2040

Quote:

I am waiting to see if OS4 comes out for the SAM or somebody comes up with a way to run OS4 classic on the Sam.

Rogue has already said that it can't and won't work (running or modifying OS4 Classic for SAM440), so no reasons to get your hopes up.

Last edited by polka. on 27-Dec-2007 at 04:36 PM.

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@polka.

Quote:

polka. wrote: @Beamish2040 Rogue has already said that it can't and won't work (running or modifying OS4 Classic for SAM440), so no reasons to get your hopes up.

Well I guess I can still hope that one day a SAM version of OS4 will come out. It's always nice to dream.

_________________
Questions are a burden to others.
Answers are a prison for oneself.

Two A2000's with no working harddrives.
One Efika with MorphOS 2.2
One HP Netbook running Amikit.

@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

meet.mrnrg wrote: Be prepared to be boarded and assimilated. PPC SAM 440 EP Rocks. Amiga OS = True OS

(click to enlarge)

www.ImageShack.us" />

Last edited by Amigo1 on 27-Dec-2007 at 07:41 PM.
Last edited by Amigo1 on 27-Dec-2007 at 07:26 PM.

@ppc_addon
There isn't anything 'Amiga specific' about the SAM. The FPGA _might_ one day be used for something interesting, under Linux or under OS4 if OS4 for SAM is ever released, but it doesn't justify the price. 'Economies of scale' is a real thing (I've had circuit boards manufactured before which included a fair number of components and can attest to that first hand), but the end result is that it's not anywhere near cost competitive for the performance attainable, for what it can do today (which is ONLY Linux), against x86 based systems.

@Amigo1

Quote:

oh wegster why don't you shut up! I run 10.000 lines of genuine PPC code on my A1 this morning and I will run 20.000 this evening! With genuine 2 lines per instruction for every clock cycle. And if I don't want to..I just push the button and turn it off. Can you do that on your sparc? Can you turn off the computer natively on your x86duolcure? so don't spread any benchmarks of non existing pure-efficency-power-cycle-code...usage. I don't have to use my computer to heat up my room, even if it's expensive an not summer in winter here! And I luv turning it on!

Nice, should I file an AR now because you can't remain civil? (I wouldn't process it, but I'm pretty sure Staff members would see 'shut up' as a TOS violation).

Moving on..I have an A1 next to me - what's your point? You can't just flip the power switch on a SAM running Linux, which is the only OS available currently, either...so if there was a point there, I'm not too sure what it is?

IF (and that seems a big if nowadays ) OS4 becomes available on SAM, that may offset it's relative high price (vs computing power) for some, as it would then be the only new piece of hardware able to run OS4. Were this to happen, unless my A1 died, I wouldn't consider purchasing one - it's simply too much $ for the low performance (although I am sure memory operations would do well compared to A1s Articia). Were there a choice between Mac Mini and SAM, I'd never even look at SAM, not at those prices.

meet.mrnrg continued to say there are 'things' the SAM400 can do better/faster. I don't care if he likes his SAM - it's a neat tiny mobo. But, when someone starts making claims based on absolutely no basis in FACT, yep, I've got a problem with it. And so, he wants benchmarks. Will come later, and we'll see what we see. Sorry, I prefer people not making outlandish claims, and prefer facts to fiction, especially when posting to a public forum as 'facts' which may mislead others (not necessarily intentionally).

@corto
Quote:

@wegster : You are asking that because you know that there are no examples to find. We all know that. Even if we can do things that run better on Sam440, you will certainly use the price argument. Or something else.

Well, except we apparently do NOT 'all know that,' as shown by meet.mrnrg's comments. If there is something _proven_ that can be done better on a SAM vs an x86 based system, I'm fine with it..I simply don't see any such things, and no one has come forth with a valid example.

Again, my opinion of ACube is far higher than that of Troika, ACK, etc - they produced something.

Unfortunately, I don't think they did a very good job of determining what price retail end users would see as reasonable, versus the performance of the board. If OS4 becomes available, the same arguments over the A1s being overpriced still exists, but now, on a system which doesn't have Altivec either...yet some would buy it, and that's fine if they did. On it's own merits, without OS4, however, I see NO compelling reasons to justify spending that much money on a slow Linux system.

And sure, if a company is 'serious' is certainly considered in the purchase of a system- no one wants to order something then worry if it will show up. I have no reason to believe ACube wouldn't deliver on orders placed, and would be happy to order something from them, if they offered anything of interest to me. But, it doesn't justify it's high price, either.

I can't believe we're actually still having the PPC vs x86 debate. Modern x86 CPUs are themselves RISC as well. At the level of performance the SAM is at, any temporary or minor advantages remaining, really mean little.

@acefnq
Quote:

I agree and this is a great example of how pathetic this site can get. Look at the posters on this thread, circling like sharks, same names all the time. Why don't they post something positive? Ever? Absolutely pathetic and childish. So the bloke likes his new MB and hopes it will run OS4 someday (don't we all), be reminded there is nothing to stop MOS or AROS running on the board also, in fact there are incentives to do so.

If he simply stated he liked his new mobo, that's fine. Again, when someone starts down the path of exaggeration, or presenting unjustified opinions as 'facts,' then it's no surprise someone steps in to correct them.

Recall, I do own an A1. I've spent a LOT of money on that system, some of which in the hopes of simply finding out the facts on that system. I've spend $600 or so in RAM, trying to find a working multiple DIMM memory setup. I've bought multiple sound cards, and helped in the SB as well as ethernet troubleshooting problems. I contacted Mr Reese, who had done extensive work with the Via chipset used on the A1s, and relayed info on to OS4 devs in the hopes of helping to improve the A1s issues.

But, sorry, letting someone claim the SAM440 running Linux will do anything 'better' as a blanket statement is simply not true, so it will be challenged.

@pjs

Quote:

I'm sorry you had to get sucked into a thread founded and primarilly populated by trolls. On paper, an emotional connection, faith and enjoyment of AmigaOS will never satisfy the trolls' arguments of cost per MhZ, how much new (wonderful!) software is available for windoze or how fast an Amiga 3.x emulator runs.

Excuse me? Meet/mrnrg started this by claiming SAM can do better/faster than other systems. The SAM does NOT run OS4, so this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Amiga, nor OS4, it remains about the statements he has made, which many of us feel are incorrect, so will prove so.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Just bow out gracefully. The thread is about who bought a SAM 440PPC.
This is obviously not your taste. So what are you doing in this thread.
Start a new one.

_________________
Quote:

Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online

MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

@meet.mrnrg

No, this thread has become about your delusions of SAM being better or faster. So, benchmarks are coming, after which, you can post yours and the results will speak for themselves, after which I'll have little else to add here.

Please, back up your OWN statements instead of trying to get someone else to simply agree or leave.
Or of course, feel free to retract your statements about SAM doing anything 'better or faster' than other systems.

Last edited by wegster on 27-Dec-2007 at 06:11 PM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster
A moderator you are: So put on that hat:

Subject = SAM440: Who bought one?

_________________
Quote:

Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online

MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

meet.mrnrg wrote: You need a consortium to win and PPC consortium is the real winner.

Nonsense, you need a superior product or market power to be a real winner, well actually you need both

The problem is that the PPC-consortium hasn't managed to get one desktop-suitable system out of the door eversince it was founded like 15 years ago (if it hasn't been for Apple), and are at total chaos in that regard eversince Apple left.

Now o.k. so PPC ain't for desktop, but whats about high-end-embeeded ? Well on paper they have some great products here, but it takes far to long from annoucement to real product.

The only places were there still seem to have a foothold is in special CPUs for consoles, and in the lower range of embeeded.


Now back to the SAM, a fantastic little board, but nothing that makes it really stand out from competing x86-ITX boards except for the price that is ...... I know VIAs CPUs are deemed slow, but I wouldn't be suprised if they give the 603-core a hard time ..... at 99Euro retail for the board !

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@meet.mrnrg

As soon as we settle what you started, with the following claims, I'll be happy to leave the thread. Unless of course, you admit you were speaking rubbish without actual facts to back them up?

This IS a discussion forum, and this particular discussion started with your OWN comments, so stand by them, or remove them if you'd prefer:

Quote:

If you want to execute the same rubbish then go a head. There is an entire team working on Solid PPC code and if you want it you need something like a SAM 440PPC. If you can't afford it your lying you just need to cut your budget and start saving the pennies. Having everything built in is more preferable. Besides if I wanted the best or fastest machine years ago I would never have bought a PC.

Quote:

Now that I understand multiple envionments including Linux and Mac, I would strongly recommend against buying anything other than PPC Amiga. There is no point in extending a mountain that no one can climb. But to re-build the Amiga World and enjoy the benefits of its Patented & Copyrighted TM's is the way forward for me now. If someone wants the fastest, linking up multi processor PPC cores is better than X86 cores. If somebody want to compete on price and say X86 WIndows or X86 Linux is cheaper well I would say its cheap but slow, cause it still doesn't perform the way I expect an OS to operate.

Quote:

Well I guess you don't have a SAM 440, Maybe when you do have one you can find something you can do on a SAM 440EP that you cant do on a cheap PC. Until then you can make do without having one. Cause thats your aim, make do. Right? Best Dollar / CPU cycle ratio. But waist all that energy and clock cycles executing poor rubbish.

Quote:

And you think the power of the SAM 440 has been surpassed by even a more expensive PC. You can like X86 and Linux on it better. From my experience those applications and systems even when executing properly fail the basic consumer needs and wants. Also they fail consumer friendliness. Show me your benchmarks first and then I will show you mine. I'm not looking to win the battles just the trophy.

My next post will be benchmarks, with instructions for you to duplicate, as you've stated. If you instead would prefer to admit you were talking rubbish, and NOT post benchmarks, then well...there is little I can do to make you someone who stands by their words.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

First admit it requires a operate thread, then I will post to that.
Your angry, so you need to calm down.

_________________
Quote:

Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online

MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

@meet.mrnrg

Angry ? More annoyed. How hard is it to back up something you claim ? Unless offcourse you can't back it up..

You know, if you can proof your claims more people would be inclined to buy a Sam440..

Last edited by Seer on 27-Dec-2007 at 06:36 PM.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@meet.mrnrg
Grab lmbench from:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=14418&package_id=11876
I'm using version 2.5, but we can go to the dev release if you'd prefer?

unarchive it.
cd
tar xvf lmbench-2.5.tar
cd lmbench-2.5
make

That will build lmbench. Next, type 'make results.' The first time lmbench is run, it will ask for some configuration. When it asks for amount of RAM ot used, I used 256MB, as I believe SAM has 512MB of RAM, some of which will be in use by the OS. To be fair, I'd suggest rebooting SAM prior to running lmbench to clear caches and remove unnescessary programs from memory, as this might improve your performance. I did not do so on my Macbook.

For 'mail results' I selected NO. The rest were left at defaults.
The results will go into the lmbench-2.5/results/ folder.
Please post them. Mine are below.

Note that this was run on a 2GHZ Core2Duo Macbook Pro, and some operations will utterly destroy the SAM, those that are CPU bound. No idea what memory performance will show, but we'll see.

I'd be happy to run it on older hardware as well, and actually, it might be interesting for someone to run on their A1 running Linux. This isn't about saying SAM is crap, it's about putting some facts against meet.mrnrg's fanboyish claims about SAM being better and faster than other systems.

Plus, I do think it will be interesting to see the memory results, and possibly compare them to an A1 running Linux.

Full results below, which are quite verbose.

[lmbench2.0 results for Darwin wegster.local 9.1.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.1.0: Wed Oct 31 17:46:22 PDT 2007; root:xnu-1228.0.2~1/RELEASE_I386 i386 i386]
cat: ../../src/bk.ver: No such file or directory
[LMBENCH_VER: ]
[ALL: 512 1k 2k 4k 8k 16k 32k 64k 128k 256k 512k 1m 2m 4m 8m 16m 32m 64m 128m]
[DISKS: ]
[DISK_DESC: ]
[ENOUGH: 5000]
[FAST: ]
[FASTMEM: NO]
[FILE: /var/tmp/XXX]
[FSDIR: /var/tmp]
[HALF: 512 1k 2k 4k 8k 16k 32k 64k 128k 256k 512k 1m 2m 4m 8m 16m 32m 64m]
[INFO: INFO.wegster.local]
[LOOP_O: 0.00000000]
[MB: 128]
[MHZ: 2161 MHz, 0.46 nanosec clock]
[MOTHERBOARD: ]
[NETWORKS: ]
[PROCESSORS: ]
[REMOTE: ]
[SLOWFS: NO]
[OS: i686-apple-darwin9.1.0]
[TIMING_O: 0]
[LMBENCH VERSION: 2.5]
[USER: wegster]
[HOSTNAME: wegster.local]
[NODENAME: wegster.local]
[SYSNAME: Darwin]
[PROCESSOR: i386]
[MACHINE: i386]
[RELEASE: 9.1.0]
[VERSION: Darwin Kernel Version 9.1.0: Wed Oct 31 17:46:22 PDT 2007; root:xnu-1228.0.2~1/RELEASE_I386]
[Thu Dec 27 13:31:59 EST 2007]
[13:31 up 5 days, 19:33, 2 users, load averages: 0.19 0.16 0.10]
[net: Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll]
[net: lo0 16384 14347 0 14347 0 0]
[if: lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384]
[if: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1]
[if: inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000]
[if: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128]
[net: lo0 16384 fe80::1%lo0 fe80::1 14347 - 14347 - -]
[if: lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384]
[if: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1]
[if: inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000]
[if: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128]
[net: lo0 16384 127 localhost 14347 - 14347 - -]
[if: lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384]
[if: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1]
[if: inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000]
[if: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128]
[net: lo0 16384 localhost ::1 14347 - 14347 - -]
[if: lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384]
[if: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1]
[if: inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000]
[if: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128]
[net: gif0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0]
ifconfig: interface gif0* does not exist
[net: stf0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0]
ifconfig: interface stf0* does not exist
[net: en0 1500 00:17:f2:c2:c6:d8 0 0 0 0 0]
[if: en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500]
[if: ether 00:17:f2:c2:c6:d8]
[if: media: autoselect status: inactive]
[if: supported media: autoselect 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP 100baseTX 100baseTX 100baseTX 100baseTX 1000baseT 1000baseT 1000baseT none]
[net: fw0* 2030 00:17:f2:ff:fe:80:13:ca 0 0 0 0 0]
ifconfig: interface fw0* does not exist
[net: en1 1500 00:17:f2:9c:93:60 463746 64441 466574 0 0]
[if: en1: flags=8863 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::217:f2ff:fe9c:9360%en1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x6]
[if: inet 10.0.0.100 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255]
[if: ether 00:17:f2:9c:93:60]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en1 1500 .lo fe80::217:f2ff:fe 463746 - 466574 - -]
[if: en1: flags=8863 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::217:f2ff:fe9c:9360%en1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x6]
[if: inet 10.0.0.100 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255]
[if: ether 00:17:f2:9c:93:60]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en1 1500 10/24 10.0.0.100 463746 - 466574 - -]
[if: en1: flags=8863 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::217:f2ff:fe9c:9360%en1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x6]
[if: inet 10.0.0.100 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255]
[if: ether 00:17:f2:9c:93:60]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en2 1500 00:1c:42:00:00:00 0 0 0 0 0]
[if: en2: flags=8963 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::21c:42ff:fe00:0%en2 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7]
[if: inet 10.37.129.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.37.129.255]
[if: ether 00:1c:42:00:00:00]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en2 1500 .lo fe80::21c:42ff:fe 0 - 0 - -]
[if: en2: flags=8963 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::21c:42ff:fe00:0%en2 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7]
[if: inet 10.37.129.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.37.129.255]
[if: ether 00:1c:42:00:00:00]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en2 1500 10.37.129/24 10.37.129.3 0 - 0 - -]
[if: en2: flags=8963 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::21c:42ff:fe00:0%en2 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7]
[if: inet 10.37.129.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.37.129.255]
[if: ether 00:1c:42:00:00:00]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en3 1500 00:1c:42:00:00:01 0 0 0 0 0]
[if: en3: flags=8963 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::21c:42ff:fe00:1%en3 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x8]
[if: inet 10.211.55.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.211.55.255]
[if: ether 00:1c:42:00:00:01]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en3 1500 swegener.lo fe80::21c:42ff:fe 0 - 0 - -]
[if: en3: flags=8963 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::21c:42ff:fe00:1%en3 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x8]
[if: inet 10.211.55.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.211.55.255]
[if: ether 00:1c:42:00:00:01]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[net: en3 1500 10.211.55/24 10.211.55.3 0 - 0 - -]
[if: en3: flags=8963 mtu 1500]
[if: inet6 fe80::21c:42ff:fe00:1%en3 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x8]
[if: inet 10.211.55.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.211.55.255]
[if: ether 00:1c:42:00:00:01]
[if: media: autoselect status: active]
[if: supported media: autoselect]
[mount: /dev/disk0s2 on / (hfs, local, journaled)]
[mount: devfs on /dev (devfs, local)]
[mount: fdesc on /dev (fdesc, union)]
[mount: map -hosts on /net (autofs, automounted)]
[mount: map auto_home on /home (autofs, automounted)]
Simple syscall: 0.9504 microseconds
Simple read: 2.2812 microseconds
Simple write: 2.0569 microseconds
Simple stat: 5.3720 microseconds
Simple fstat: 2.1437 microseconds
Simple open/close: 11.1950 microseconds
Select on 10 fd's: 5.9347 microseconds
Select on 100 fd's: 32.0756 microseconds
Select on 250 fd's: 75.6197 microseconds
Select on 252 fd's: 75.5479 microseconds
Select on 10 tcp fd's: 4.8132 microseconds
Select on 100 tcp fd's: 21.6784 microseconds
Select on 250 tcp fd's: 49.9640 microseconds
Select on 252 tcp fd's: 49.8649 microseconds
Signal handler installation: 1.362 microseconds
Signal handler overhead: 6.703 microseconds
Protection fault: 24.980 microseconds
Pipe latency: 16.2360 microseconds
AF_UNIX sock stream latency: 22.3200 microseconds
Process fork+exit: 496.0000 microseconds
Process fork+execve: 1376.2500 microseconds
Process fork+/bin/sh -c: 4030.5000 microseconds
File /var/tmp/XXX write bandwidth: 20292 KB/sec
n=512, usecs=5141522
Pagefaults on /var/tmp/XXX: 10042 usecs

"mappings
0.524288 22
1.048576 31
2.097152 49
4.194304 83
8.388608 152
16.777216 286
33.554432 560
67.108864 1107
134.217728 2239

"File system latency
0k 1000 14116 19373
1k 1000 3282 15398
4k 1000 3594 11308
10k 1000 2068 10432

unable to register (XACT_PROG, XACT_VERS, udp).
UDP latency using localhost: 99.3014 microseconds
TCP latency using localhost: 105.0974 microseconds
localhost: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Timed out
localhost: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Timed out
TCP/IP connection cost to localhost: 118.2708 microseconds
Socket bandwidth using localhost: 1016.62 MB/sec
Avg xfer: 3.2KB, 41.8KB in 4.2870 millisecs, 9.74 MB/sec
AF_UNIX sock stream bandwidth: 696.00 MB/sec
Pipe bandwidth: 954.04 MB/sec

"read bandwidth
0.000512 69.12
0.001024 135.02
0.002048 261.96
0.004096 464.82
0.008192 713.39
0.016384 1013.73
0.032768 1324.56
0.065536 1595.25
0.131072 1676.78
0.262144 1713.05
0.524288 1738.17
1.05 1749.25
2.10 1736.92
4.19 1576.51
8.39 1505.49
16.78 1467.69
33.55 1459.21
67.11 1451.28
134.22 1483.33


"read open2close bandwidth
0.000512 27.10
0.001024 53.54
0.002048 105.29
0.004096 200.17
0.008192 348.82
0.016384 577.73
0.032768 888.85
0.065536 1235.41
0.131072 1444.52
0.262144 1580.33
0.524288 1660.60
1.05 1703.77
2.10 1661.51
4.19 1538.35
8.39 1488.13
16.78 1480.78
33.55 1467.18
67.11 1478.10
134.22 1458.67

"Mmap read bandwidth
0.000512 7021.59
0.001024 7752.74
0.002048 8160.04
0.004096 8398.51
0.008192 8516.35
0.016384 8577.28
0.032768 8129.47
0.065536 7157.39
0.131072 7171.55
0.262144 7177.47
0.524288 7178.15
1.05 7173.84
2.10 7086.30
4.19 5659.37
8.39 3821.69
16.78 3530.93
33.55 3500.72
67.11 3519.82
134.22 3519.73

"Mmap read open2close bandwidth
0.000512 18.81
0.001024 37.48
0.002048 74.16
0.004096 147.04
0.008192 265.71
0.016384 439.66
0.032768 662.94
0.065536 894.49
0.131072 1084.99
0.262144 1207.18
0.524288 1288.18
1.05 1328.75
2.10 1347.35
4.19 1196.66
8.39 1082.54
16.78 1066.91
33.55 1038.77
67.11 1068.54
134.22 1077.05

"libc bcopy unaligned
0.000512 16498.58
0.001024 21868.32
0.002048 24888.34
0.004096 27068.99
0.008192 27430.67
0.016384 7721.50
0.032768 4905.03
0.065536 4911.95
0.131072 4929.49
0.262144 4953.30
0.524288 3128.83
1.05 3122.50
2.10 3090.87
4.19 2800.40
8.39 2047.25
16.78 1947.22
33.55 1942.48
67.11 1949.99

"libc bcopy aligned
0.000512 18648.98
0.001024 23633.84
0.002048 26065.14
0.004096 27718.44
0.008192 27742.77
0.016384 7887.29
0.032768 4878.95
0.065536 4912.25
0.131072 4933.07
0.262144 4916.51
0.524288 3127.53
1.05 3091.43
2.10 3095.43
4.19 2786.45
8.39 2003.73
16.78 1961.33
33.55 1948.35
67.11 1949.14

"unrolled bcopy unaligned
0.000512 7886.45
0.001024 8210.99
0.002048 8415.74
0.004096 8444.63
0.008192 8486.81
0.016384 5311.01
0.032768 5012.48
0.065536 5011.29
0.131072 5021.82
0.262144 5008.52
0.524288 4994.12
1.05 4887.10
2.10 3912.60
4.19 1412.70
8.39 1244.97
16.78 1192.07
33.55 1171.80
67.11 1182.24

"unrolled partial bcopy unaligned
0.000512 25648.18
0.001024 30514.35
0.002048 31567.85
0.004096 33002.65
0.008192 33540.53
0.016384 24203.91
0.032768 9296.37
0.065536 9281.31
0.131072 9315.12
0.262144 9337.02
0.524288 9316.91
1.05 9243.65
2.10 5946.26
4.19 1541.46
8.39 1254.47
16.78 1213.54
33.55 1193.81
67.11 1197.26

Memory read bandwidth
0.000512 8626.26
0.001024 8650.80
0.002048 8632.83
0.004096 8662.26
0.008192 8636.53
0.016384 8603.12
0.032768 8127.99
0.065536 7130.18
0.131072 7140.76
0.262144 7151.53
0.524288 7162.40
1.05 7117.88
2.10 7067.38
4.19 6313.55
8.39 3842.11
16.78 3550.73
33.55 3537.63
67.11 3550.73
134.22 3538.38

Memory partial read bandwidth
0.000512 32668.26
0.001024 33129.95
0.002048 34102.36
0.004096 34492.54
0.008192 34352.84
0.016384 34511.17
0.032768 31255.54
0.065536 17222.45
0.131072 17265.12
0.262144 17276.37
0.524288 17283.18
1.05 17171.21
2.10 16899.54
4.19 11966.63
8.39 4531.93
16.78 4251.16
33.55 4239.88
67.11 4195.88
134.22 4212.73

Memory write bandwidth
0.000512 8418.26
0.001024 8530.66
0.002048 8520.84
0.004096 8471.74
0.008192 8527.85
0.016384 8507.76
0.032768 8347.19
0.065536 6846.16
0.131072 6862.16
0.262144 6877.16
0.524288 6879.61
1.05 6849.49
2.10 6602.89
4.19 5017.11
8.39 1615.06
16.78 1514.87
33.55 1495.23
67.11 1490.98
134.22 1476.25

Memory partial write bandwidth
0.000512 33928.63
0.001024 33348.81
0.002048 33516.76
0.004096 33461.28
0.008192 33488.09
0.016384 33458.05
0.032768 28733.16
0.065536 14078.19
0.131072 14115.45
0.262144 14133.32
0.524288 14144.29
1.05 14076.18
2.10 13302.83
4.19 7250.88
8.39 1697.41
16.78 1531.89
33.55 1499.10
67.11 1500.44
134.22 1473.64

Memory partial read/write bandwidth
0.000512 29252.81
0.001024 30956.37
0.002048 32633.34
0.004096 33399.42
0.008192 33948.83
0.016384 34123.63
0.032768 28961.25
0.065536 14578.08
0.131072 14632.63
0.262144 14632.18
0.524288 14658.74
1.05 14621.58
2.10 14172.53
4.19 7556.26
8.39 1684.29
16.78 1509.69
33.55 1482.02
67.11 1495.16
134.22 1486.86

Memory bzero bandwidth
0.000512 21653.11
0.001024 21891.47
0.002048 29063.72
0.004096 30896.82
0.008192 30103.24
0.016384 31416.62
0.032768 27604.16
0.065536 14116.90
0.131072 14122.07
0.262144 14163.37
0.524288 14178.28
1.05 3533.06
2.10 3521.67
4.19 3529.37
8.39 3525.61
16.78 3520.93
33.55 3522.41
67.11 3491.98
134.22 3453.35


"size=0k ovr=5.02
2 3.29
4 5.10
8 6.41
16 5.99
24 5.98
32 5.95
64 6.79
96 6.31

"size=4k ovr=5.41
2 3.25
4 6.43
8 8.47
16 6.53
24 7.78
32 7.20
64 7.01
96 7.42

"size=8k ovr=5.94
2 3.18
4 5.63
8 6.33
16 7.35
24 6.56
32 6.70
64 7.55
96 8.82

"size=16k ovr=6.83
2 3.50
4 6.66
8 8.44
16 8.14
24 7.94
32 9.79
64 12.64
96 10.73

"size=32k ovr=8.75
2 7.27
4 8.01
8 12.88
16 13.28
24 11.54
32 10.45
64 14.37
96 28.34

"size=64k ovr=12.51
2 21.42
4 23.01
8 23.81
16 24.21
24 24.20
32 25.43
64 35.53
96 39.34

Memory load latency
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80.00000 4.971
88.00000 4.980
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[Thu Dec 27 13:35:49 EST 2007]

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@thread

New thread created for meet.mrnrg to back up his claims with benchmarks, unless he'd like to retract the majority of his statements, or refuses to stand by what he's said.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25074&forum=17&14

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@ChrisH

Quote:

Betamax was just one (well known but perhaps inaccurate) example - there are lots of others if I was bothered to think of them.

Betamax vs VHS is *the* proverbial example of "a better standard losing out 'unfairly'". Sometimes the reason given is better marketing in favour of VHS, sometimes the reason given is that all the porn industry jumped onto the VHS bandwagon, sometimes the reason given is even that Sony screwed up their licensing. And yet, it's about VCR formats --- Video Cassette Recorders. And frankly, Betamax did a bad job at being a Video Cassette Recorder format, because it couldn't record the things people wanted to record, namely movies.

Yes, there are many more examples just like Betamax vs VHS. And you will find that for most of them, when you really look at it, the "losing" side simply failed to adequately do some aspect of the job.
One such example is the argument often put forward that in 1986, the Amiga was a better PC than the then-available IBM PC, and somehow should have taken away the IBM PC's market. Which is perfectly true if you look at spec sheets; However, if you look more closely, you find that the 1986 market for the IBM PC was mainly in an office context, doing word processing and spreadsheeting. And it just so happens that the much-maligned monochrome monitors the PC had, with their extremely long persistence, provided an absolutely flimmer-free image --- very much unlike the 1084 from Commodore. And the IBM PC keyboards were rock-solid pieces of kit built for professional typists --- compared to those, the Amiga keyboards were Tonka toys. Replacing an IBM PC with an Amiga, in an office context, in 1986 would have reduced productivity, and increased computer-work related headaches, even if one completely ignores the issue of software availability.

Of course, the group of case studies those two examples belong to is actually quite separate from the one you mention later:
Quote:

"cheap & good enough" usually wins over "best but expensive"

*That* is a completely different scenario, where you do not have two products compete, but rather two market segments --- one high priced, one not. Depending on the overall size of the market, such segmentation may be sustainable (popular examples are cars, which come in many segments from cheap mass produced crap to ultra-expensive dream toys for dot-com billionaires; But things like mobile phones, TVs, mineral water and furniture are other examples), or it may not be (there really is only one kind of post-it note, for example, and the cheap knock-offs are not really a separate market segment; The laserdisc wasn't "better enough" to eke out a viable niche in the pre-recorded video market, and the mini-disc could not create it's own market segment against the CD).
If segmentation is sustainable, the question is still how many segments the market can support. Quite often, there is the "mass market" segment, and the "luxury item" segment. Think cigarette lighters, ballpoint pens, speaker cables. Sometimes, more are viable, but that can change over time --- in the photography field, the film based market segment is currently dying, despite many vocal believers in the inferiority of digital. In digital, there is point-and-shoot, dSLR, and large format backs --- it will be interesting to see, 10 years down the track, whether the large format stuff is still around, or whether the dSLR segment has gobbled up its part of the market.

However, the important part is that all surviving products *must* be "good enough". The iPod is certainly not the cheapest portable music player (rather the opposite...). It isn't the most highly specced one, either. Yet it dominates its market --- because unlike most other portable music players, it does a damn good job at playing music, portably.


Anyway --- on the lighter note:
Quote:

Although even layer changes in DVD movies are universally badly placed, and annoy me

I recommend a newer DVD player --- they buffer up data, and thus can hide the layer change. I haven't noticed a change since buying my Oppo 981HD :)

Last edited by umisef on 28-Dec-2007 at 04:35 AM.

@umisef

All good and interesting points, which I mostly agree with.
Mainly couldn't stop from commenting on this though, oddly enough:

Quote:

I recommend a newer DVD player --- they buffer up data, and thus can hide the layer change. I haven't noticed a change since buying my Oppo 981HD :)

Oppos rock. For anyone looking for a reasonably priced (~$200) very nice DVD player, Oppos are _really_ tough to beat, even at higher prices. (Yep, have one, although it's their earlier DVI model..)

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@acefnq

Quote:

Totally agree. However, when under powered PPC HW comes from BPLan why aren't the same people so vocal??? EFIKA, what a joke unles it was aimed at "Damn Small Linux"? What a minute community that would be (PPC Linux EFIKA)

I lump EFIKA and Sam440ep in the same catergory... not that interesting with linux.. but pretty cool with an Amiga type OS on it!
(yes theres price and spec differences.. no I dont want to go on about it)

@umisef

Although the most you wrote is agreable and logic it seems you forgot to put some things in the equation.
Let's name advertising, marketing, fashion (like fads and trend), naivity, ignorance..
I do not believe anymore, that in todays market the sole capabilities of a product can secure it's success.