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      /  Nivida CG Support?
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fatman2021 
Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 13-Jan-2005 0:13:17
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 234
From: Alaska. USA

Do you see support for Nivida CG any time soon?

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 13-Jan-2005 4:28:53
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2320
From: Minnesota, USA

@fatman2021

At the soonest it will have to wait until Snap drivers are fully implemented. Check out SciTech's website for the details.

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_Steve_ 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 15-Jan-2005 20:27:40
#3 ]
Team Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2002
Posts: 6806
From: UK

@Samurai_Crow

SNAP are 2D drivers (Amiga at least anyway). For 3D drivers I wouldn't hold your breath. NVidia are not very forthcoming in giving details of their hardware/software, so writing 3rd party drivers for them is no easy task, and one in which the Friedens have repeatedly stated is unlikely to ever happen.

If you want things to speed up, get NVidia to be a little more co-operative

Last edited by _Steve_ on 15-Jan-2005 at 08:32 PM.

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Cass 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 15-Jan-2005 21:01:39
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2003
Posts: 481
From: Athens, Greece

@_Steve_

So, no chance for the time beeing to get a modern engine/gfx game to amiga?! If so, then not even buying a new gfx card (DirectX v9 compatible), a Voodoo would be sufficient...

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stevieu 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 15-Jan-2005 21:05:48
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Apr-2003
Posts: 647
From: England, UK

@fatman2021

We all love ATI :D

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elwood 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 15-Jan-2005 21:15:05
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3427
From: Lyon, France

@Cass

Quote:
to get a modern engine/gfx game to amiga?!

Nvidia = modern ? For me Nvidia = closed support.
And ATI cards are more than enough.

Last edited by elwood on 15-Jan-2005 at 09:16 PM.

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Rogue 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 15-Jan-2005 21:26:53
#7 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@fatman2021

Quote:
Do you see support for Nivida CG any time soon?


I didn't look too closely into Cg since I was under the impression that it would become obsolete with DX9's HLSL and OpenGL's GLSL. I think that the front end and compiler is open source, and that you *can* actually make a backend yourself.

The main obstacle is Shader support. Cg doesn't make sense without at least vertex shader and ideally also pixel shader support. This is planned for Nova, and will of course depend on the amount of information we get; we will have it at least for one specific card, and we'll see what else will come around.

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EntilZha 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 16-Jan-2005 10:03:46
#8 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@Cass

What's wrong with ATI cards ?

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"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Step 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 16-Jan-2005 10:50:25
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 788
From: Stockholm, Sweden.

@EntilZha

Quote:
What's wrong with ATI cards ?


Nooooothing! I have been using them for years, very nice cards imho.

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olegil 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 16-Jan-2005 12:01:04
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5895
From: Work

@EntilZha

Nothing, really. I think you're asking the wrong question. The correct question should be "Why do you make comments like that when it's pretty evident you know NOTHING about the AmigaOne and/or AmigaOS4" The last 3-4 words can be shifted around depending on thread subject.

A lot of people are all mouth and no ears.

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Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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Cass 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 16-Jan-2005 19:04:54
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2003
Posts: 481
From: Athens, Greece

@elwood

Quote:

And ATI cards are more than enough.


Like "640kb ought to be enough for anybody."
The more we have the better is. Freedom of choice! Unfortunatelly, there isn't much documentation for the nVidia gfx cards

@ EntilZha

Nothing's wrong! I like ATI, and I suggested an ATI gfx card instead of a 5xxx series nvidia to a friend of mine last month.

What's preoccupied me is this: We were searching on the stores (xmas shopping ) for an AGP ATI 9600 256MB, and the only thing we could find is the 128MB model, or the 'PCI-Express' correspondent. A quick search to the net and you get some results, but what about 6 months from now?
Would it be possible to take a stroll to the computer stores and buy from the shelf a gfx card, or should I search the ebay, or on-line stores with leftovers (for the supported models?)?
Then again, the sw is bounded to the supported hw features (it won't take advantage of newer gfx engines -eg. DX9 generation cards- . )

The thing is that the market is moving faster than the development/support.

@ olegil

You're funny Your line "it's pretty evident you know NOTHING" reminds me of a certain person.

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Rogue 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 16-Jan-2005 19:38:15
#12 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@Cass

Quote:
Unfortunatelly, there isn't much documentation for the nVidia gfx cards


Make that "zero, nada, zilch".

Quote:
A quick search to the net and you get some results, but what about 6 months from now?


I wouldn't be overly worried about this in 6 month, there's still plenty of AGP cards around (and boards that need them). And it is not like the current ATI cards can't kick ass. The good part is that we will most likely be able to support them very well, even up to the 9800.

Quote:
Then again, the sw is bounded to the supported hw features (it won't take advantage of newer gfx engines -eg. DX9 generation cards- . )


Nova will make this possible. We're investing a bit of time in rounding up Warp3D, but the Radeon R1xx and R2xx drivers and the Avenger and Napalm drivers will be the final version. Work has already started on Nova, and it will be very similar to DX9 with shader-centric design and high-level shading language.

Quote:
The thing is that the market is moving faster than the development/support.


The advantage of high-level shader languages is that you can usually express more stuff with them than the underlying hardware can. This naturally scales upwards so that you can have more complex shaders NOW that are rendered in multiple passes while the next generation can have them rendered in a single pass. DX8 vs DX9 didn't really introduce massive gains in functionality, only in complexity. A hlsl can go a long way in this respect.

Look at OpenGL, it isn't exactly known for fast moving development, and it certainly IS lagging behind a bit, but it can keep up now with the GLSL and through a clever extension concept. Although I wish that OGL 2.0 would have been more closely following the original proposal by 3DLabs, which had a lot of very sensible features (like the asynchronous drawing).

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Cass 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 16-Jan-2005 20:00:51
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2003
Posts: 481
From: Athens, Greece

@Rogue

Thank you for your enlightening post. Keep up the good work!

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Hammer 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 16-Jan-2005 21:10:09
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4904
From: Australia

Recalling, Cg (through NVIDIA's Cg shading language) is very similar to Microsoft's HLSL...

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EntilZha 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 17-Jan-2005 12:45:18
#15 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@Cass

Quote:
Like "640kb ought to be enough for anybody."


No, more like "ATI cards are pretty much equivalent to nVidia cards" ?

Quote:
Freedom of choice!


Freedom of choice is all nice, but if you're dealing with companies that protect their IP more aggressively than some countries' atomic weapons programs, you're out of luck.

I would gladly support any stupid graphics cards out there, but the fact remains that without the cooperation of hardware vendors, you're out of lcuk.

So if you want the freedom of choice, fine, get an nVidia card and astick it in, but you won't be able to see anything because we don't get documentation from nVidia about their cards.

Quote:
The thing is that the market is moving faster than the development/support.


Support of nVidia cards is not a matter of development, support, choice, willingness from us or anything else. It's just that there's no way to get documentation from nVidia, as simple as that.

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"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Interesting 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 17-Jan-2005 21:34:10
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

@Rogue

Quote:
Make that "zero, nada, zilch".


What do you need maybe I have it or can get it.

My prediction for 2005; Nivida will retake the top graphics chipset.

Clearly their new chip design is far superior to Ati's. More flexible to build other designs off of.

At CES, one of the motherboard makers had a very good display (MSI). They had two of their Nivida cards linked over the PCI-X cards, plus special goodies on the MB!

Take a look at SLI "scalable link Interface" and MSI's K8N Diamond, and Neo4 Platinum MB's. That is where high end graphics is going in the future.

Ask and you shall recieve.....

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Rogue 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 17-Jan-2005 22:16:25
#17 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@Interesting

Quote:
What do you need maybe I have it or can get it.


What would be needed is the register specifications and programming guide.

Quote:
Take a look at SLI "scalable link Interface"


I thought it was "Scan Line Interleaved". The technology is not new, it is an inheritence from their 3DFX takeover. The technology is a two-edged sword, really - on one hand it can get you better performance, on the other hand it isn't like it is a massive gain you get from buying a second graphics card - the price is higher than an AmigaOne actually.

Sure, I'd like to write a 3D driver for that, but so far they didn't want to release any information. So if you can change that...

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fatman2021 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 18-Jan-2005 0:16:48
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 234
From: Alaska. USA

@EntilZha

For starters there VISA support is not the best in the world..AKA Emulated and therefor VBE calls are emulated sofware calls only....where as Nivida cards has VISA support in hardware.....

Last edited by fatman2021 on 18-Jan-2005 at 12:17 AM.

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EntilZha 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 18-Jan-2005 0:47:42
#19 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@fatman2021

Quote:
For starters there VISA support is not the best in the world..AKA Emulated and therefor VBE calls are emulated sofware calls only....where as Nivida cards has VISA support in hardware.....


Sigh...

I said we can't support them because we lack documentation. So it doesn't really matter what they have and what ATI doesn't.

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"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Rogue 
Re: Nivida CG Support?
Posted on 18-Jan-2005 0:50:15
#20 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@fatman2021

Quote:
For starters there VISA support is not the best in the world.


Er, what's VISA other than a competition to Mastercard? Or do you mean VESA?

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