@Livebyfaith

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Livebyfaith wrote: @NutsAboutAmiga I will gladly accept any blame if I did not set it up correctly, as I admit that I am far from an expert. It is just my own experience and I am not trying to say that it will be everyone's experience. I do have a registered copy of MorphOs 3.18, have had it since 3.15. I have a G5 PowerMac with 2 processors running at 1.8Ghz, I can't remember how much physical ram is in the system, but it only recognizes 1.5 gb I think. I also have a Radeon 9600 in the system. I plan to use it, but even before I got my X5000, I had decided that MorphOS was too sluggish on my machine for me to use on a daily basis. While OS4 just simply worked better under emulation for me. My OS4 install was on a i7 2600k, 16gb ram, and a radeon 240.

I have MorphOS on several G5 Macs from 2.0 to 2.7 GHz and they all are extremely snappy in use. Is there something particular where it felt sluggish or were even window moving etc slow?

Check the debug screenbar module if the "Show log" option would reveal something suspicious. Like if there'd be some kind of compatiblity issue with your graphics card (not initializing DMA or something like that).

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@jPV

Thanks for the tip. I will check it out and see what it says. I didn't even know about the screenbar module ! :)

Booting up is fast on my G5, but opening a program is slow. Wayfarer is too slow for me to enjoy using it regularly, even though it is great that almost all sites will display correctly for me, compared to Odyssey or Ibrowse on OS4, it is slow and lags in use for me. Same for Iris.

I figured my 1.8ghz G5 just couldn't do much better. But I felt that Leopard ran better on it, I fgured because it could take advantage of the extra processors, cores, and ram.

Have you tried running MorphOs on an X5000? How does that compare to your G5 setups?

Thanks for your help

BTW

Are you the person who just put out the RNO Widgets for MorphOS and OS4? If so, I wanted to say I just put on my OS4 setup and I like it a lot. Sent a donation yesterday. Great work!

@agami

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If I could do even half of those things with apps running on AmigaOS 4.x or even MorphOS 3.x as effectively as I do them with apps on macOS, then I could justify the price of the X5000 et al.

A fair comment. Unfortunately the Amiga was left with no parent company after Commodore so what came later and even now with the X5000 currently is really created in the image of the next Amiga that Commodore never produced. And with it the OS and software lacked the backing of a big company as well. Compare this to Apple that survived and thrived in the new century. There's no way for the Amiga OS4 ecosystem to even compete. Heck, given 20 years, there's no way it could even compete with what Apple were offering 20 years ago. So, for the amount of investment needed, yes you do need a use case.

@Hypex

I think idea that you can take MacMini and install a different OS, and its magickly upgrade to 10 x what it was, is naive. BeOS was the first to claim this, I believe it was like MacOS8 or something back then, back then MacOS was not fully PowerPC native, that was something when they released MacOS9. There might been a time when MacOS was not optimized, todays MacOSX is completely different beast, fully native, they thrown out the legacy, it’s not comparable, true it has tendency of getting slower after OS updates.

Maybe BeOS was not the first, I guess IBM was selling OS/2 Warp in a similar way, it was failure. There has claim that installing Linux might make your computer brand new.

We had mem doubler, driver doubler for msdos, back when memory and disk space was expensive, I believe mem doubler was scam, while drive doubler used compression algorithm.

In any case looking for PowerMac G5, has 4 different model numbers, only model: A1117 has PCI-e slots, something that’s important when you wanted to buy new graphic card.

As far as I have seen there no AGP to PCIe adapters, you have AGP to PCI 66Mhz adapters, and then you have PCI 66Mhz adapters to PCIe 1x adapters. (So this other 3 models are too old.)

(Compared to X5000, you get DDR2 vs DDR3, and 1.8Ghz vs 2.0Ghz. )

Model: A1117 compared closely to AmigaONE-X1000.

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@kolla

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There was, in the past, the bootloader named Moana. But since it made total sense and had great promise, it was deemed illegal and the project shut down. (one of the many things that could change if Cloanto ends up on top of things)

Not to mention it was the IP of Andrea Vallinotto, who swore here publically that he would protect his own IP.

Hyperion "may" have some code, or perhaps ExecSG team does, but I think either might be risking another lawsuit if they urged further work be done on this.

Anyway, Andrea claimed it was done for Acube, not Hyperion anyway.

#6

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@number6

I don’t see why acube would support a bootloader for competing hardware?

Anyways, it doesn’t matter - it isn’t exactly rocket science, it could be redone. Not like there arent any other bootloaders for OpenFirmwsre PowerPC macs. But then there are drivers and lack thereof. As I mentioned, this is stuff that could change with Cloanto holding the wheel.

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@kolla

We have to remember this all took place in the darker days when there was no h/w to run OS4.x.

It was just SAM and the bootloader at that time. I'd have to read the doc again from Nicola to see if he mentions any conflict...but I think I'll pass on doing that.

#6

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@Hypex

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So, for the amount of investment needed, yes you do need a use case.

I hope no one misunderstands my comment. I completely understand how individuals may spend multiples of thousands of dollars on passion projects, hobbies, and items of nostalgia; And for many, a new AmigaOne X5000 system running AmigaOS 4 can cover all three aforementioned subjective aspects.

I too spend money on nostalgia to preserve my OG C= Amiga systems, and on passion projects such as the stuff coming out of the Apollo Team and what's going on with PiStorm, but an X5k would set me back more than $4k AUD. And even if I could get over my own principles and let most of that money flow to people I don't think are helping, it would essentially be a machine that gets turned on once or twice a year, to scratch some esoteric itch which my other systems don't, and I suppose so I can be a legitimate member of an exclusive club for which I have no participation interest.

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@Livebyfaith

Quote:

Livebyfaith wrote: Booting up is fast on my G5, but opening a program is slow. Wayfarer is too slow for me to enjoy using it regularly, even though it is great that almost all sites will display correctly for me, compared to Odyssey or Ibrowse on OS4, it is slow and lags in use for me. Same for Iris.

On Odyssey and IBrowse half of javascripts don't even get executed and that's why they're faster but don't work correctly, so it's the cost of better compatiblity on sites that Wayfarer is slower with some sites. In my experience Wayfarer can still load some sites quicker than Odyssey, but some are slower in use.

One thing that could speed up Wayfarer is to minimize writes to HD. I have softlinked the whole Cache directory to Ram Disk: (a dir in env: actually) to avoid any writes, but a less drastic option would be to disable Disk Cache from Wayfarer's settings for starters. I've actually never ran out of memory with Wayfarer even without the Disk Cache, it's much better than Odyssey in this regard.

I think Iris caches something on HD too, and if you have a slow HD it might affect. I have SSD drives on my G5 and Mac mini nowadays, and I'm still happily using the mini as my daily driver too.

I think I experienced slowness with window moving etc with Iris once when I ran it on a non-enhanced display mode and had thousands of mails in folders. It updated the mail list regularly which added some slowness with the legacy graphics drawing mode, but there have been changes in this kind of stuff so it might already been fixed. To check if you have the "enhanced" display on your setup, see if you have realtime window shadows or not. Or check the Screens preferences.


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Have you tried running MorphOs on an X5000? How does that compare to your G5 setups?

No I haven't. But my WinUAE emulated OS4 setup is slower than anything else, crawls quite badly, but I don't have that recent PC either.

I don't know if that tells anything, but videos I've grabbed of my programs, like RNOWidgets, are made on a G5/2.7GHz/Radeon9600. There are occasional appearences of Wayfarer in the videos. Although I don't remember if I've even disabled the Disk Cache there, because I've wanted to keep the video grabbing setup on quite default settings, but it has an SSD drive at least... and of course the CPU is much higher clocked than yours. I think G5 isn't that much faster than G4 in similar clock speeds.


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Are you the person who just put out the RNO Widgets for MorphOS and OS4? If so, I wanted to say I just put on my OS4 setup and I like it a lot. Sent a donation yesterday. Great work!

Yes, it's me. Thank you for the donation! I put your suggestions in my to-do list and let's see what can I do in the future.

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@number6

Hyperion does not own all AmigaOS4.1, like previous AmigaOS3.5/3.9 there are licensed components and contributions, for example SFS2 is licensed to use with particular hardware models, that goes for parts made by Joerg Strohmayer, Joerg Strohmayer has in disagreement with Hyperion for some time now, about this.

Distributing an illegal copy of AmigaOS4.1 for use on Mac hardware, without an agreement with Joerg Strohmayer, might also result in legal action.

It does not look there is any parts from Joerg Strohmayer in AmigaOS3.1.4 and 3.2, I guess ben is being careful, probably don’t want to add extra costs. Or upset Joerg anymore, at risk of a legal action.

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@agami

This is kind of how I feel too. Just as other men my age spend a lot of money fixing up old cars or finally buying that car they wanted as a teenager. I choose to chase the computer I always wanted. I have 2 original Amiga 3000s that I have often contemplated spending the money to bring them up to a place where I could use them regularly again. But when I last used my 3000 regularly I had a cyberstorm MKIII 060, 64 MB ram, CVPPC video, and an ultrawide SCSI hard drive. So I would want something at least that in capability, but in reality I would want something better than that.

So it would also be pricey and still relying on 30 plus year old components and chips etc. So I thought about buy a new PC just to dedicate for emulation. But I felt that emulation was still just too limited. So in the end I just bit the bullet and decided to go for the best Amiga I could get as to last me a long time.

I have only been doing it for about a month, but I use my X5000 daily and use it for almost all my computing activities. The only thing it lacks right now is a web browser that handle all the needed sites. But honestly, I have no shortage of ways to visit those sites. I have multiple PCs in my house, 2 Macs, and a smart phone, that I use for the sites that don't work.

So for me, it allows me to a proud Amiga user again. Supporting the community and buying Amiga software. And I use the less inspiring machines as tools to do what I can't do on my Amiga in the style that I want to. Just as a classic vehicle can't do everything or can't go as fast as the modern ones, but sometimes it about the style of the classic that makes you want to drive it and spend money on it. :)

@jPV

Thanks again on that tip about MorphOS, I had a minute or two to look at it yesterday and I didn't even know all those options were available in screen bar. That was a cool find.

As you mentioned the perfomance of OS4 in emulation I was reminded that I also had a simlar experience at first. As I had tried emulating OS4 on several different PCs and Macs and had found it less than optimal. But eventually I did get it going pretty well on the 3.4ghz i7 machine, which did make a lot of difference. I think I read that the most important thing for emulation speed is the single core performance of the processor. So results obviously can vary by processor. I think I had that setup before I tried MorphOs, so I was probably comparing the first try with MorphOs and an OS4 setup that I had put alot of effort into getting setup right.

I don't have full access to my office right now, I have family staying with me, where my MorphOs machine is setup. But when I get back in there I may spend some more time playing around with it. I currently have my X5000 setup in the dining room to give me full access to it, while the family takes my office so I almost exclusively am using it right now and loving seeing OS4 running at its best. Of course I will eventually try MorphOS on the x5000 as well, but I will need a new graphics card and SSD, so I am not in a rush to do that.

Thanks again for the tip and for your work supporting OS4 and MorphOS. It is developers like you that allow us Amiga fans to be able keep using our machines and to be excited for all the new stuff you guys bring out!

@kolla

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I don’t see why acube would support a bootloader for competing hardware?

From page 18 onwards there are emails between Nicola Morocutti and Bill Mcewen discussing the Sam440 and OS4 for Mac Mini. The emails are in reverse chronological order. There is also a chat log with Bill M, Nicola and Enrico Vidale which although not date is likely earlier than the emails.

https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/35/5.html

We can see that licensing was being discussed at least as early as September 2006 and if things had gone smoothly, OS4 for Mac Mini could likely have been released before the end 2006. Sam440 was still some time away at this point so the Mac Mini version would not necessarily have been competing in the same time scale. Since the license would have been with Virtual Works or Acube they could have later withdrawn it from sale if they thought it would eat into Sam sales.

I also wanted to comment briefly, currently I am using AmigaOs4.1 under Qemu Peg2 there are a few limitations but still the speed on my machine is excellent.

Comparisons with WinUae are not possible as I use a Mac with ARM M1. With Qemu Peg2 I found a really good emulation for my machine to use AmigaOs4.1.

Of course I would prefer real hardware, but this is not available and much too expensive for what you get then.

Mac mini's with G4 are already very cheap, I hope that AmigaOs4.1 will be adapted for it sometime. Finally a small video how the whole thing is currently running on my machine under Qemu Peg2.

YouTube: https://youtu.be/Gzv11K-v_AU

@Maijestro


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Mac mini's with G4 are already very cheap, I hope that AmigaOs4.1 will be adapted for it sometime.

you won't get hardware video decoding support, and you get suck with a old graphic card. so no "Warp3D Nova"

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