So at Amiga38, A-EON/Trevor talk about A1222 update, nearly 50 have been produce so they're coming very soon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhaw7NAjPKU&t=1740s

But more interesting is a new Virtual Driver of Amiga Picasso96 is coming for AmigaOS4 that allows much faster Amiga emulation and higher screen mode than previously made.

Also being to look into is the possibility of emulating other drivers, like network and audio etc this might make the AmigaOS4 much easier to port to new hardware and massively improve emulation support/speed.

Amiga-news.de report
"Enhancer 2.3, Virtio GPU driver: In his talk (YouTube video), Trevor Dickinson described the history of A-EON's hardware developments, announced a new Enhancer version 2.3 for probably before Christmas, and introduced the Virtio GPU driver for Picasso96: a virtual GPU for use with emulators like QEMU and virtual machines (KVMs), developed for A-EON by Hans der Ruiter. Features:

Looks like a regular PCI device
Passes graphics commands through the host operating systems graphics drivers
Provides 32-bit display support
High resolution
Fast - no need to emulate hardware registers
Virtio GPU has 3D and video decoding hardware acceleration - WIP

Virtio GPU driver current status:

Fully working framebuffer driver, with 8, 16, and 32-bit modes
Hardware accelerated mouse pointer
DDC/EDID working, so automatically gets available screen-modes
High resolution
Fast - no need to emulate hardware registers
Virtio GPU has 3D and video decoding hardware acceleration - WIP
Version 0.5 has just been released
Very usable as-is "

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@amigang

I'd buy that for a $1!

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For pc I have Windows.
I'm not interested in emulator.
Almost every software that I use on Amiga has Windows versions.
Newer, more stable and run at lest five time faster than old Amiga version in emulator.
What not run on Windows is usually to outdated and not worth to use.
And most important Windows has memory protection.
It is solid like rock.
Last time I see blue screen more than twenty years ago.
Windows is nice, stable, reliable os.
I don't need Amiga os on my pc.

I like amiga because it is not pc.
because it is something differ.
So no real hardware no fun.

@thread

Personally have no interest in AmigaOS 4. At this point they could make it open source and I'm not sure I'd care.

As far as the feature no one asked for, ever. One has to ask the question: What plans is A-EON hatching that they require Virtio GPU driver in Picasso96?

Will the next A-EON X-product run System54 within a QEMU hypervisor on non-PPC hardware?

Time will tell.

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@agami

Its going to happen with AEON or without AEON, its better to be part of it, then at least then you can sell the driver, everyone knows it selling few PowerPC to few people are is too expensive for many, and we don’t have laptop, its inconvenient to drag a big box Amiga to shows. Let’s see how well it works, perhaps there will be benefit to real hardware or not.

I also agree that writing software for emulators make little sense, but then again lots of 680x0 software has been developed on PC’s for years using cross compilers.

I think what sells AmigaOS or not will depend on unique software you can run on it.
If don’t have any unique software, then it’s not likely anyone care to use the OS.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Oct-2023 at 08:52 PM.

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@agami

Quote:

agami wrote: @thread Personally have no interest in AmigaOS 4.

Really, didn’t you suggest porting OS4 to 68k a few weeks back?

Quote:

At this point they could make it open source and I'm not sure I'd care.

At this point it is much too late.

Why is it in Amiga land, open source is seen as some sort of last resort, as the last thing one should do when software is dead? It’s backwards and retarded, open sourcing must happen while development is still active to be of much use, as only then can transfer of knowledge happen.

Quote:

As far as the feature no one asked for, ever. One has to ask the question: What plans is A-EON hatching that they require Virtio GPU driver in Picasso96?

I bet this is the result of Nils’ poll earlier about what hardware users of OS4 would want to see. Personally, Qemu/VirtIO is the _only_ way I would even consider OS4 in the future, so that’s what I answered in the poll as well. And it helps a ton on PPC hardware too.

Last edited by kolla on 12-Oct-2023 at 12:48 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

https://github.com/cnvogelg/amitools/blob/master/docs/vamos.md

Quote:

even able to build complex Amiga projects including AmigaOS itself!

Guess how OS 3.2 is compiled… 68k SAS/C on Vamos/Musashi.

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@kolla

I know about VAMOS, never used it.

I have been developing natively, and SSD-DISK, 1Ghz CPU its ok to develop natively, for smaller projects, for larger projects helps with faster CPU, I’t good idea to have at least 1Gb ram, as temp file are put in T:, but you move to a disk. Instead of RAM:T, so work 512mb.
it’s better on X1000 where I have M.2 disk and 1.8Ghz, naturally.

SSD is absolutely a necessity. Lots of small files, lots of seeking is not good.

Even larger project, is possible work natively, you only really recompiling, parts you change,
you can also organize project into .a libs, so you have isolated parts can be compiled without thinking too much about incompatible header files.

so its compilation few files and there is the linking.

if you are doing test driven development with larger team, you lots more problems. Because check anyone has broken anything, after merges, working alone, kind know what everything is. so there is not really necessary to have a monster machine.

I know SUN used to compiled code using distributed networks, SunRPC, looked pretty nasty when looked at code, as distributed shell commands over networks. The code looked like ideal backdoor from hackers point of view.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Oct-2023 at 10:15 PM.

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Cool news that will let more people use the OS.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I know about VAMOS, never used it.

Well now you also know that AmigaOS 3.2 was built with it.

Quote:

I know SUN used to compiled code using distributed networks, SunRPC, looked pretty nasty when looked at code, as distributed shell commands over networks. The code looked like ideal backdoor from hackers point of view.

https://www.distcc.org

I've used distcc for package building for Linux/m68k, using real 68k systems, emulated 68k systems and cross-building toolchains.

Last edited by kolla on 10-Oct-2023 at 11:50 PM.

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with this kvm driver working will be no sense to buy a real hardware just because the bootle neck is the gpu for the emulators of Os4 hw.

If 5$ i will buy it... if more not needed i will continue use my amigaone micro.

Last edited by tlosm on 11-Oct-2023 at 11:50 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 11-Oct-2023 at 11:50 AM.

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@kolla

Quote:

Why is it in Amiga land, open source os seen as some sort of last resort, as the last thing one should do when software is dead? It?s backwards and retarded, open sourcing must happen while development is still active to of much use, as only then can transfer of knowledge happen.

As a comparison, If MS open sourced Windows Mobile, would it encourage active development and increase the user base of Windows Mobile?

tlosm Quote:

with this kvm driver working will be no sense to buy a real hardware just because the bottle neck is the gpu for the emulators of Os4 hw.

Exactly what I was thinking. Stick a boing ball sticker on the outside of your PC and forget about real Amiga hardware. The best high performance AmigaOS4 system will no longer be a X5000 but a PC with emulation. The best low end AmigaOS4 system will be a cheap PC SBC or garage sale PC and not the A1222.

Intel Inside Amiga > PPC Amiga
AmigaNOne < AmigaNOwhere

AmigaOS4 Hardware only! 24% 13/55
Not interested in Emulation 11% 6/55
---
Want AmigaOS4 hardware 35% 19/55
(Not interested in OS4 15% 8/55)
---
Interested in AmigaOS4 that want real hardware 40% 19/47

I expect a higher percentage of Amiga users would be interested in real hardware but not existing PPC hardware at current prices which some may assume to be the case. Sadly, Amiga software emulation offers better value and performance than real hardware. Emulation is for obsolete hardware after all and that has come to PPC hardware also. It may still be possible to have mass produced low end real 68k Amiga hardware like RPi hardware by reuniting with a much larger Amiga user base but otherwise real Amiga hardware is dead.

Short term winners: Hyperion, Hans de Ruiter, AmigaOS4 emulation users
Short term losers: Amiga Corporation (Ben gets life line), A-Eon (Why buy A1222?), AmigaOS4 hardware owners

Long term winners: AmigaOS4 emulation users (buy software once and set for life)
Long term losers: Trevor (no more AmigaNOne tax deductions from subsidized hardware), AmigaOS4 software development (no hardware, no software, no market), AmigaOS4 hardware owners

Maybe a software bundle can be offered including AmigaOS4 with gfx drivers, KVM software and emulation software ready to install. It would be the last software ever needed for AmigaOS4 users and it could be called AmigaForeverPPC. If it is legal to sell an AmigaKit A600GS Amiga compatible computer then it should be legal to add "PPC" onto "AmigaForever" for an emulator, right?

Last edited by matthey on 11-Oct-2023 at 05:14 PM.

@matthey

Quote:

Exactly what I was thinking. Stick a boing ball sticker on the outside of your PC and forget about real Amiga hardware. The best high performance AmigaOS4 system will no longer be a X5000 but a PC with emulation. The best low end AmigaOS4 system will be a cheap PC SBC or garage sale PC and not the A1222.

They have already stuck the BoingBall on their PC hardware, because that's all it is, a board on which a PPC processor has been stuck, that whole thing we then call AmigaNG hardware and sell it at prices that a normal working citizen can't afford.

We will be happy if 200-300 pieces of it are sold. So is this the solution now for the hardware and software problem with AmigaOs4.1? I think not!

But everyone can form his own opinion about it.....

If you are interested in this and want to see for yourself how the whole thing works under Qemu, I recommend you simply click on my channel where you will find many examples.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUTJOGYJxS1Ggx4foQTklXw

Last edited by Maijestro on 11-Oct-2023 at 05:48 PM.

@Maijestro

cool videos, I've not tried Os4 under emulation, but when this come out will definitely give it a try.

Is this an ideal solution, no.

I would love to see better, affordable native AmigaOS4 hardware, but I think A1222 has demonstrated the difficulties that can happen, the huge costs and delays.

If this can offer a way for more users to try out AmigaOS4 out and make the system maybe even easier to port in the future, Im all for it!

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@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @agami [quote]Really, didn’t you suggest porting OS4 to 68k a few weeks back?

As I explained in that thread, I was stating what would be the best course of action for Hyperion Entertainment CVBA.

The run of PPC hardware, low quantity as it was, is coming to an end with the long overdue and drastically under-powered for 2023: A1222 (Tabor) system board. Also at this point I'm not even sure A-EON needs to pay Hyperion anything for these additional couple hundred licenses.
I predict that they would sell more AmigaOS 4 for the high performance emulated (HPE) 68k CPU in UAE and/or Emu68, than AmigaOS 3.2.2 for 68k (hardware, clock accurate emulated 68k and HPE68k).
Why keep working on back-porting AmigaOS 4 features into Amiga OS 3.x, when they could just port the whole thing for HPE68k, as most AmigaOS 4 Amigans have high performance PC, plus there's great enthusiasm for upgrading classic hardware with PiStorm boards running Emu68.And there's also the upcoming maturation of the PiStorm standalone system.

But personally, I couldn't care any less than I already do, whether Hyperion port AmigaOS 4 to HPE68k, which should yield no less performance than that of a SAM460 or A1222.

Quote:

Why is it in Amiga land, open source os seen as some sort of last resort, as the last thing one should do when software is dead? It’s backwards and retarded, open sourcing must happen while development is still active to of much use, as only then can transfer of knowledge happen.

Of course opening the source of an operating system has better results when done at the height of enthusiasm and engagement, but that doesn't mean that there aren't scenarios where opening the source as a "last resort" can be mildly fruitful.

In Amigaland, we'd prefer a new well funded player to enter the scene and take over from Hyperion, and inject new life into this slowly dying platform. But as that is less likely to happen as each year of "two more weeks" passes, the other way to free the mostly beloved OS from Hyperion's tyranny, is to go open source.

Such a move could mean no more frivolous litigation. No more fear of a Ben Hermans summons when developing aspects of the OS or its software.
While that is a far cry from revitilising the development community for AmigaOS 4, it's something many in Amigaland would surely welcome.

It certainly couldn't make things any worse.

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@geen_naam

I disagree this will kill new hardware, likely the two biggest successful hardware products we had in the Amiga world lately have been emulation based.

The A500 Mini
Pistorm

Now the bigger question is are they really adding anything new to the platform, have they added new users and interest. I would say the answer to that is mixed, some have just come back to the Amiga scene because of the A500 mini, I met someone just like this at the Amiga show in the Uk, this leads to an extra sale of a ticket to the show, this might of lead to them maybe exposing them to what else is out there. The A500 mini has also resulted in one of the best pre-setup Amiga gaming system, AGS and lead to many more games being made for WHDload.

Pistorm has allowed a fairly easy, lowcost way to upgrade classic Amigas, this has resulted in more people buying AmigaOS3.2 for their upgraded system and maybe check out other Amiga software.

So you never know where this could lead. A600GS is another new emulated based hardware coming out that might offer some new interesting directions for the Amiga platform.

Last edited by amigang on 12-Oct-2023 at 10:16 AM.
Last edited by amigang on 12-Oct-2023 at 09:47 AM.

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@Maijestro

Are there any guides around for installing OS4 under qemu do you know please?
Im interested to see how it performs on my i9-13900k system. I was surprised how much faster it is than the old machine I was using under WinUAE (r9-5900x and close to exactly 2x), so would be curious to try OS4 under Qemu on this machine.

Thanks.

@geen_naam

This how I feel about “FrandUp OS”, there no point because everything I do easier on host OS.
Quartex OS is trying to do again do the same, Web OS, it’s just make believe.

I agree with you AmigaOS does not have a foothold. Like major OS like Linux or Windows, its content that brings you to any platform.

for console it was point that you can’t pirate that made software houses interested in making games for it.

For the Amiga was fact anyone access to advanced tools for its time, something you can only do on expensive mac or Unix box. This is not true anymore.

For Win/Intel clones its was is openness to hardware vendors, that gave it the edge, Windows just happened to ride the wave, managing to shape the market in their favor by brutal business techniques. Anti-competitive behavior and buying up competitors.

Once Amiga became expensive and it did not have the same Sharm it lost its way, this happened in 90’s sometime, getting back has become a major challenge or almost a impossibility.

there are many new operating systems, but they all struggle to find a place, in a too big market, with too big powerful players, that eat you for lunch.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Oct-2023 at 04:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Oct-2023 at 04:08 PM.

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@fishy_fis

I'm currently using Qemu with Pegasos2 emulation on a MacStudio M1 Max, since you use an i9 for it it should be at least if not even faster than on my hardware.

You can get the installation instructions from here:

https://www.amiga-news.de/de/forum/thread.php?id=36516&BoardID=6

I've already translated it into English, it's not a perfect translation but should help with installation.

Last edited by Maijestro on 12-Oct-2023 at 04:35 PM.