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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga Development
      /  PTDQ - faster C2P
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saimo 
PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 10-Feb-2025 12:02:06
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2509
From: Unknown

Just released.

PTDQ is a video system for AGA Amigas that provides a chunky-to-planar method which is faster than the traditional ones. It is the higher-quality brother of PTDS (formerly PED81C), another system based on the same core principle.

                          SIMPLIFIED COMPARISON CHART
----------------+------------+----------------+--------------+---------+------
| horizontal | maximum number | color choice | visual |
system | resolution | of colors | freedom | quality | speed
----------------+------------+----------------+--------------+---------+------
PTDQ | full | 256 | ** | ** | **
PTDS | half | 81 | * | * | ***
traditional C2P | full | 256 | *** | *** | *

C2P PERFORMANCE COMPARISON SUMMARY
---------+---------+------------------+---------------
| | C2P conversions | C2P conversion
machine | routine | per second | time (frames)
--------+---------+------------------+---------------
A1200 | PTDQ | 12.670 (+2.493) | 3.946 (-0.966)
| K030 | 10.177 | 4.912
--------+---------+------------------+---------------
A1200B | PTDQ | 50.098 (+13.425) | 0.998 (-0.365)
| K030 | 36.673 | 1.363
--------+---------+------------------+---------------
A1200PS | PTDQ | 86.340 (+12.494) | 0.579 (-0.098)
| K040 | 73.846 | 0.677
--------+---------+------------------+---------------
A1200TF | PTDQ | 67.689 (+4.699) | 0.738 (-0.055)
| K040 | 62.990 | 0.793
--------+---------+------------------+---------------
A4000CS | PTDQ | 72.690 (+7.614) | 0.687 (-0.081)
| K040 | 65.076 | 0.768

A1200: Amiga 1200
A1200B: Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230 IV, 68030 @ 50 MHz, 60 ns RAM
A1200PS: Amiga 1200, PiStorm32-lite, Raspberry Pi CM4, firmware v1.04
A1200TF: Amiga 1200, TerribleFire TF1260, 68060 @ 50 MHz, firmware 68090
A4000CS: Amiga 4000, NTSC PAL-jumpered, CyberStorm MK III, 68060 @ 50 MHz

PTDQ = PTDQ_DoC2P()
K030/K040 = Kalms c2p1x1_8_c5_030_2() / c2p1x1_8_c5_040()

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=witR2EE9No8

[The video quality of the real machine output is heavily affected by the fact that the scandoubler did not support SHRES (so a real-time software trick was used to somehow produce the colors, although it is only a visual illusion and causes a sort of rasterline effect), the monitor did not support progressive PAL and the video was captured with an ancient phone at just 24.917 Hz. YouTube's compression degraded the video quality.]

Full details are provided in documentation included in the archive that can be downloaded from https://retream.itch.io/ptdq.

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NovaCoder 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 12-Feb-2025 11:24:34
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2008
Posts: 492
From: Melbourne (Australia)

@saimo

Cool, always nice to see new innovation in this area :)

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saimo 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 15-Feb-2025 11:26:28
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2509
From: Unknown

@NovaCoder

Thanks! In general, trying to make something new is one of my main motivators.

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saimo 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 15-Sep-2025 21:20:55
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2509
From: Unknown

This video shows the Amiga AGA chipset combining 3 full screen 8-bit layers (or playfields, if you prefer) using various 8-bit alpha values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YBfCrU0aK0


LAYERS

Background:
* PTDQ system
* 320x200 dots
* max 256 colors

Middleground:
* PTDS system
* 160x200 logical dots, 319x200 physical dots
* max 16 non-transparent colors
* each base color can have an arbitrary 8-bit alpha (actually used: 0 for complete transparency, 128 for dark colors, 255 for bright colors)
* "native" chunky dots (i.e. each byte in the layer buffer corresponds to a dot)
* triple buffer

Foreground:
* PTDQ system
* 320x200 dots
* max 81 non-transparent colors
* each base color can have an arbitrary 8-bit alpha (actually used: 0 for complete transparency, 192 for see-through graphics, 255 for solid graphics)


NOTES

* The color model is RGBW for all the layers, but each layer could use a color model of its own without making any difference performance-wise.
* If the middleground had used PTDQ, its size would have been 320x200 dots and its maximum number of non-transparent colors would have been 81. However, that would have required the PTDQ C2P conversion.
* If the middleground did not use 100% transparent dots, its maximum number of colors would have been 81.
* If the foreground did not use 100% transparent dots, its maximum number of colors would have been 256.
* The display size is actually 319x200 dots to hide the leftmost column of dots, as PTDS requires a 1-dot shift to the right for the even bitplanes.
* The ball is rendered by scaling and flipping in real time a 128x128 chunky bitmap.
* The ball is wiped by means of both CPU and Blitter. The logic that handles the geometry still needs to be refined in order to provide a massive speedup.
* For convenience, the video has been recorded with WinUAE.
* On a stock Amiga 1200, the demo runs at 50 fps except when the ball covers most of the screen (in that case, the frame rate drops proportionally to the size of the ball); the slowdowns will be greatly reduced once the wiping is optimized.
* On an accelerated Amiga, the demo runs at steady 50 fps.
* YouTube's encoding reduced the saturation of colors.


CREDITS

The graphics have been obtained by processing the following pictures:
* boing ball: from OBLIGEMENT / http://obligement.free.fr/gfx4/boingball_enregistree_amigacorporation.png
* Earth: from https://cronianverse.fandom.com/wiki/Earth
* plate: from Freepik / https://www.freepik.com/premium-ai-image/steampunk-frame-brass-metal-plate-with-empty-sheet-design-white-background_277147660.htm
* porthole: by winwood1, from Wallpapers.com / https://wallpapers.com/png/round-porthole-window-png-05042024-zmsra0nm6gp8hvuv.html

Last edited by saimo on 16-Sep-2025 at 07:48 AM.
Last edited by saimo on 16-Sep-2025 at 07:45 AM.
Last edited by saimo on 16-Sep-2025 at 07:45 AM.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 16-Sep-2025 2:03:47
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1266
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Friend Saimo,

the absence of comments, not to mention commendations to such posts,
says everything there is still possibly to say about this Amiga World of ours that David Doyle originally founded.

And when he did, talented, relentlessly enthusiastic friend Saimo,
back when David Doyle founded it,
reactions (LIBRARY PUN NOT INTENDED!!!) would have been oh so different.

Vultures still had to tear apart that comatose Amiga body,
Vampires still had to enthrall the poor simpletons of the internet fora,
Renfields, lackeys of the Count Dickinsons of this world, still had to appear,
Cdimauro still had hair and an almost human appearance.

Reactions would have been oh so different,
the masses would have carried you in triumph.

But now,

now just accept this gnarled hand's handshake,
and my heartfelt congratulations for not just pushing the limits of those chipset as aging as this poor heart of mine, but baking it all as reusable code, too.. instead of one of those fancy but ultimately self-serving """"demos""""".

SUCCESS TO YOU FRIEND SAIMO!
Success.







/mega..

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--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

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saimo 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 16-Sep-2025 8:10:03
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2509
From: Unknown

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:
Friend Saimo,

the absence of comments, not to mention commendations to such posts,
says everything there is still possibly to say about this Amiga World of ours that David Doyle originally founded.

And when he did, talented, relentlessly enthusiastic friend Saimo,
back when David Doyle founded it,
reactions (LIBRARY PUN NOT INTENDED!!!) would have been oh so different.

There's truth in what you say, but there's also the fact that my stuff - quite simply - isn't popular.

Quote:
But now,

now just accept this gnarled hand's handshake,
and my heartfelt congratulations for not just pushing the limits of those chipset as aging as this poor heart of mine, but baking it all as reusable code, too.. instead of one of those fancy but ultimately self-serving """"demos""""".

SUCCESS TO YOU FRIEND SAIMO!
Success.

I'm glad you appreciate my work, thank you!
But I love demos (and also made a couple) and they have their usefulness beyond entertaiment, too

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OlafS25 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 16-Sep-2025 11:44:17
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6508
From: Unknown

@saimo

it is assembler code?

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saimo 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 16-Sep-2025 17:25:25
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2509
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Yes.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 16-Sep-2025 17:51:11
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 1104
From: Unknown

buy graphics card
forgot AGA
if you really want to use chipset
use good old Amiga 500 with OCS with 68000 7 MHz 0.5 MB CHIP 0.5 MB SLOW RAM

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OlafS25 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 16-Sep-2025 17:59:18
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6508
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

not everyone needs to be lectured by you what he should do

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 17-Sep-2025 1:14:25
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1266
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

quote]
ppcamiga1 wrote:
buy graphics card
forgot AGA
if you really want to use chipset
use good old Amiga 500 with OCS with 68000 7 MHz 0.5 MB CHIP 0.5 MB SLOW RAM
[/quote]

please, friend ppcamiga1,
shut the fuck up, miserable human filth.
you have no right to speech, here:
you are uncapable of writing code,
you are uncapable of writing in English,
you are unwanted and unwelcome.
silence.

ProszÄ™, przyjacielu ppcamiga1,
zamknij się, nędzny ludzki śmieciu.
Nie masz prawa głosu:
nie potrafisz pisać kodu,
nie potrafisz pisać po angielsku,
jesteÅ› niechciany i niemile widziany.
cisza.


POMERANIAN CORRIDOR OH POMERANIAN CORRIDOR WHY DID YOU HAVE TO CLOSE UP SO YOUNG

ps. once again great work Saimo,
don't listen to windshield wipers.


/mega

_________________
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--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

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ppcamiga1 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 17-Sep-2025 9:05:52
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 1104
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

herr szonwejs stop trolling start working on zune

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 17-Sep-2025 at 09:07 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 17-Sep-2025 9:06:49
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 1104
From: Unknown

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

micro mical stop trolling take yours pills

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 17-Sep-2025 9:37:45
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1266
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@ppcamiga1

trolling entails teasing, scum.

do I tease you by pointing out a simple yet painful truth, which is that you can't write a single line of code?

do I tease you by higlighting you are unable to express yourself in English?

no, my malformed friend,
I do not tease you.
I hurt you.



VVVVOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
/m!

_________________
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--
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ppcamiga1 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 17-Sep-2025 17:18:12
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 1104
From: Unknown

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

micro mical stop trolling start working on zune together with szulc szonwejs karlos hammer agami etc

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pixie 
Re: PTDQ - faster C2P
Posted on 18-Sep-2025 8:50:27
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3497
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

buy graphics card
forgot AGA
if you really want to use chipset
use good old Amiga 500 with OCS with 68000 7 MHz 0.5 MB CHIP 0.5 MB SLOW RAM


It's so sad to see that when someone bring someone novel to the same hardware which was set in stone back in the days and allows some capabilities we never seen before and the answer is "buy graphic card" and yet, when people do just that using a pistorm, the rumble still goes on 'amiga just become a keyboard to it".
There's nothing that can satisfy you, just an overpriced pc would. Please go back to your windoze pc

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

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