ZORRAM 3.X 68K

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL
--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

@kolla

I really have no idea since nothing truly official from this thread, but for sure nothing would be better :)

And i can see the digital sale of OS 3.2 is back: https://secure.2checkout.com/order/product.php?PRODS=53302996&QTY=1&AFFILIATE=252771

kriz Quote:

When did Cloanto ever plan a new Amiga OS version ? Never, not even back in the 90s. It was always about the emulatio and selling UAE with "their" rom files.

Cloanto created new AmigaOS versions but chose to call it AmigaOS 3.X as a whole.

ROM and Operating System Files in Amiga Forever
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-114 Quote:

Amiga Forever includes a preinstalled Workbench 3.X environment (newer than 3.1), and also includes or supports operating systems not originally released by Commodore (e.g. AROS), as well as hardware diagnostic systems and operating systems not originally meant to run on Amiga hardware.

Preinstalled 3.X Files
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-107 Quote:

Amiga Forever 6.0 includes the latest version 44 operating system files, plus a selection of the latest, most important and most compatible version 45 and some later ROM and operating system patches and files. For the reasons outlined below, however, Cloanto specifically does not wish to claim to be distributing a product known as "Amiga OS 3.9". When, during the development of Amiga Forever 6.0, it became aware of the fact that the legal status of certain files included in the original "Amiga OS 3.9" distribution was under challenge, Cloanto decided to additionally license certain third-party version 45 and later contributions not only from the publishers, but also directly from the respective developers and copyright holders (who never granted any exclusive licenses). While this may result in a best case scenario where some version 45 files are licensed not once but twice for use in Amiga Forever, in the worst case certain files would at least be covered by the licenses granted for Amiga Forever by the individual developers (plus the license which applies to the previous code of which the new version may be a derivative, e.g. Amiga code already licensed for Amiga Forever by Amiga Corporation). In consideration of the ongoing litigation between different parties involved in the release of the product known as "Amiga OS 3.9", Cloanto also considered it prudent to avoid altogether the use of the "Amiga OS 3.9" label in the context of Amiga Forever. Therefore, although duly licensed by multiple parties to include the latest version 45 system files, Amiga Forever continues to refer to this set of files using the generic "3.X" description, which Cloanto has been using ever since the release of Amiga Forever 1.0. Amiga Forever 6.0 and higher therefore include a set of version 44 (as in "Amiga OS 3.5") files plus version 45 (or higher) files which may be either identical with, or newer than, certain (but not all) files which were also included in the product known as "Amiga OS 3.9". From a technical point of view, as in its tradition, Cloanto carefully evaluated each individual system file, verifying the latest version available (including files newer than those distributed in the product known as "Amiga OS 3.9") and paying great attention to factors such as compatibility and stability. Third-party application software was deliberately kept separate from the System partition, and is stored, as in previous versions of Amiga Forever (which already included under license software also bundled with the product known as "Amiga OS 3.9"), in the Work partition. Certain third-party application items which were included in the product known as "Amiga OS 3.9", the use of which had been publicly disputed before the publication of Amiga Forever 6.0, such as for example the MP3 decoding technology (claimed to be covered by a patent portfolio of Fraunhofer Institut für Integrierte Schaltungen and Thomson Corporation), the GIF/LZW functionality (claimed to be covered by one or more patents by Unisys Corporation), and the TCP/IP software (claimed to be covered by copyrights of Network Solutions Development, Inc.), and other disputed items, were either licensed independently by Cloanto, or not included in Amiga Forever. For this reason, for example, the AmigaAMP player as included in Amiga Forever does not come with any MP3 decoding technology (as included in the product known as "Amiga OS 3.9"), as the license for commercial use was higher than could be afforded (nevertheless, the required free mpega.library can be downloaded separately from the original sources and their distribution sites).

Cloanto started with existing AmigaOS versions which makes sense for a retro emulator trying to preserve Amiga history as the name Amiga Forever implies. Cloanto could have called their latest AmigaOS 3.X AmigaOS 3.9 but it was lacking some components which could not be used for various reasons so it was incomplete. Various AmigaOS 3.9 bug fixes, patches and 3rd party updates were applied on top of mostly AmigaOS 3.9. Cloanto was not creating major AmigaOS changes but use outside of emulation was not permitted by license before Amiga Inc's IP was purchased. Hyperion had already released the first version of their 68k AmigaOS before Cloanto gained more extensive rights outside of emulation.

2018 Hyperion released AmigaOS 3.1.4
2019 Amiga Inc's Amiga IP acquired by C-A Acquisition Corp making it available to Cloanto

The version numbering system of AmigaOS only works when there is one developer and one development line. Otherwise, AmigaOS modules end up with different version numbers with different support resulting in incompatibility. AmigaOS 3.9 used V45 for modules while Hyperion's AmigaOS 3.1.4 started with V46 despite some missing features from starting from an earlier AmigaOS 3.1 code base but backporting some AmigaOS 4 modules with changes for 68k AmigaOS compatibility. Any major AmigaOS updates from Cloanto would not have included the new Hyperion AmigaOS functionality and Hyperion's updates may not have included Cloanto's features and functionality. AmigaOS 4 modules are API incompatible with 68k AmigaOS modules despite using a similar version numbering system but they are no longer compiled for the 68k. Major problems and crashes are likely if asking for functionality that is not available for different modules with the same version number. This is part of the problem with AROS and AmigaKit Enhancer software which replace AmigaOS components based on API documentations or reverse engineering the modules. While this is error prone, adding new features and functionality is more problematic as AmigaOS diverges. The AmigaOS was very standard when there was one developer but now moves toward Linux fork hell but they have at least have some API agreement with the POSIX standard.

Cloanto/Amiga Corp as the AmigaOS developer has some potential advantages and disadvantages.

+ single official 68k AmigaOS developer as there should be only one
+ owns most Amiga IP allowing more modules to be included with AmigaOS releases
+ existing licenses of AmigaOS 3.9 and 3rd party components for the AmigaOS
+ Mike negotiated for a free Hyperion AmigaOS (at least with devs working for free)
+ Mike has suggested more open AmigaOS sources (more contributions and better transparency)
- may no longer have access to Hyperion owned AmigaOS IP like AmigaOS 4 and Reaction/ClassAct
- possible setback in features and functionality due to missing Hyperion AmigaOS IP
- some 68k AmigaOS developers may leave but it will not be over pay

If Amiga Corp can avoid a setback due to missing Hyperion AmigaOS features and functionality as happened from AmigaOS 3.9 to AmigaOS 3.1.4 and the existing 68k AmigaOS developers can be retained, the change of AmigaOS developer may be a positive one. With the possible inclusion of AmigaOS 3.9 resources, the next version of the 68k AmigaOS may be called AmigaOS 3.9.x though. Without AmigaOS 4 code access and a goal to improve AmigaOS API compatibility, the 68k and PPC AmigaOS may diverge without further cooperation with Hyperion and a future incompatible 68k AmigaOS 4.x is possible. AmigaOS 4 is as dead end on PPC as the AmigaOS was on the 68k without new silicon when deciding to change architectures. Even the 68k AmigaOS is dead end without new silicon as the value is lacking for the next generation to buy the Amiga in sufficient quantities to be sustainable. As it is, ARM/Acorn survived and was resurrected as RPi Linux which is proliferating exponentially even though the 68k Amiga is more standard allowing better retro compatibility, has a large retro games library and has a smaller memory footprint which is a cost advantage for cheap hardware.

kriz Quote:

Most active Amiga users do use OS 3.2 and upwards btw.

Was there a poll somewhere?

I suspect you are wrong. I believe Amiga users in categories #1, #2 and #3 are larger than #4 below.

1. Amiga users who use retro software so old AmigaOS versions are adequate (Cloanto/RGL customers)
2. Amiga users who use 68k AROS instead (Vamp/Apollo and A600GS customers)
3. Amiga users who refused to buy the Hyperion AmigaOS for various reasons
4. Amiga users who bought the Hyperion AmigaOS

I expect most 68k Amiga users would like to use a newer version of the AmigaOS if it was compatible enough as the retro sweet spot is retro compatibility with upgrades. The Amiga has many factions/camps and Hyperion has reputation issues of not being ethical or neutral. Even a poll is likely inadequate to provide insight and individual businesses/entities/camps need to be approached and asked why they do not use an official AmigaOS. I believe Amiga Corp with most Amiga IP ownership has a better chance of developing an AmigaOS which is perceived as official by a neutral and ethical business.

Last edited by matthey on 19-Jul-2026 at 03:45 PM.

@matthey

Choice 4 for sure ... I only know from local users in my area of south-west Norway + Eab forum users, active users almost all have latest 3.2+ (mostly 060, V2 or V4 A1200s + some classic A500s/A4000s).

What do you use ?

Last edited by kriz on 19-Jul-2026 at 02:50 PM.

@kriz

Quote:

I only know from local users in my area of south-west Norway + Eab forum users, active users almost all have latest 3.2+ (mostly 060, V2 or V4 A1200s + some classic A500s/A4000s).

Do you only count paying 3.2 users here, or....?

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

I don`t know who pay for it or not, but i know most bought a copy and use it for several machines (as do I).

kriz Quote:

Choice 4 for sure ... I only know from local users in my area of south-west Norway + Eab forum users, active users almost all have latest 3.2+ (mostly 060, V2 or V4 A1200s + some classic A500s/A4000s). What do you use ?

The last Amigas I used were a CD32 with AmigaOS 3 and before my power supply blew up on my expanded Amiga 3000T with CSMK3 68060@75MHz and Mediator/Voodoo4 it was AmigaOS 3.9 with patches. I have also played around with Amiga Forever using Cloanto AmigaOS 3.X. I may not even be classified as an active Amiga user anymore though. I prefer 68k Amiga hardware to emulation but my original Amiga hardware is dying. FPGA simulation is accurate enough for me but MiSTer and Vamp/Apollo hardware are downgrades to my expanded 3000T. I could fix my 3000T or switch to other Amiga hardware I have but most of it has issues with not much operating like new. My Mediator only works in a 3000T or 4000T and my 4000T also has issues despite efforts to get it going including replacing the power supply. The last die hard Amiga hardware users often spend more to maintain and upgrade their retro hardware than new better value hardware costs. A big part of the 68k Amiga appeal was the hardware and this appeal is gone with emulation. The reality is that there are few remaining active Amiga users and most 68k Amiga retro users just play a few games. There is an opportunity for more with RPi like value for 68k hardware but otherwise it is EOL emulation for the masses who will become less and less active Amiga users. A 68k and PPC AmigaOS has no long term future with declining Amiga users and hardware limited to aging silicon.

@kriz

Quote:

kriz wrote: @kolla I don`t know who pay for it or not, but i know most bought a copy and use it for several machines (as do I).

Well, point 4 on the list from Matthey was "Amiga users who bought the Hyperion AmigaOS" - btw, the developers expect you to buy one copy per system.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@matthey

Understand, would recommend to sell some and just get a Amiga 1200 with a pistorm or a recent 060 card to get up to date again with a working system without too much hassle. The amount of thoughts and planning with problematic hardware can take too much brain activity and time, clearing up space is sometimes good (mentally and physically).

It costs money but other hobbies like cars or even high end pc gaming costs even more.

But we for sure get older, at our local meetings and forums it show very little (or any) new users, sometimes some returning (had a A500 before and so on). Many of the returning have a few months of nostalgia and then disappear again, but some stay around...

Let us hope for a good solution for all parties but the stubborn Amiga user/devs have not always (or even often) worked together easily since Commodore went away.. Still we are here some 30+ years later :)

@kolla

AmigaOS 3.2.x -> You only need ONE license for all machines you own.

From sordan and other shops you can buy several roms if needed at same time:
"Please note that once you purchase an Amiga OS 3.2 CD you can also purchase in the same order unlimited additional physical kickstarts ROM also for different type of Amiga machines."

@kriz

Quote:

But we for sure get older, at our local meetings and forums it show very little (or any) new users

We've both been here a -very- long time. I have never seen a sincere effort to attract new uers. I doubt you have either. I brought this up numerous times in the forums. Any future will need to address this.

The days of living off existing users has long ago reached the "point of diminishing returns".

Take care,

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@kriz

Quote:

"Please note that once you purchase an Amiga OS 3.2 CD you can also purchase in the same order unlimited additional physical kickstarts ROM also for different type of Amiga machines."

That is why I wrote "developers expect", and not what Hyperion or the dealers have concluded with. What does the 3.2 EULA say? I tried to get a clarification about the 3.1.4 EULA, but they never managed to answer...

"This license allows you to install or operate the AmigaOS only on a computer system that had a version of AmigaOS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system, which was especially prepared for running AmigaOS through the use of a dedicated (flash)rom or similar mechanism or for which a legitimate version of AmigaOS was or is available."

https://forum.hyperion-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?t=4142

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

The devs expect ? Where is this coming from ? All shops says you can install on all your machines and offer several rom files to ordered. Also as the Hyperion page says:

"The most comprehensive version of AmigaOS 3.2 is available now on downloadable CD-ROM image and contains all the disks and AmigaOS Kickstart ROM sets for all Amiga machines ever produced allowing users to install AmigaOS 3.2 on multiple different types of Amigas at once."

https://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/index.php/where-to-buy/direct-downloads/327-amigaos-32

Last edited by kriz on 19-Jul-2026 at 07:21 PM.

@kriz

Thomas Richter declared "one license per buy" on one of the boards years ago, and of all the devs that made OS 3.2 possible, his and olsen's (IMO) certainly carry most weight (and I do remember as it would cost me a small fortune!) But never mind, not like anyone read or care about EULAs or buy one license per system anyways, I was told.

Let's have some fun... go to the 2checkout page you linked to, and then hit the "< Tilbake til innkjøp" (maybe "< Back to shopping" in English?) - twice - what you get?

Last edited by kolla on 19-Jul-2026 at 08:09 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 19-Jul-2026 at 08:07 PM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

You buy one license and can install it on all your machines, never says anything else. Some comments on forums do not change that..

And yeah then goes to amiga.com .. Is linked on the back button on the cart page and the A Os 3.2 page, maybe something Amiga wanted ? Not any big issue i would say though :)

kriz Quote:

Understand, would recommend to sell some and just get a Amiga 1200 with a pistorm or a recent 060 card to get up to date again with a working system without too much hassle. The amount of thoughts and planning with problematic hardware can take too much brain activity and time, clearing up space is sometimes good (mentally and physically).

That is a good recommendation for most Amiga users and returning Amiga users but not for me. I have more big box hardware so it probably makes sense to stay with that or sell my collection. I still have a couple of Amiga 3000s which worked last I checked. I believe my CSMK3 would fit and I have a backup FusionForty accelerator. I also have CV64 and CV64/3D graphics cards. The CV64 is really nice for a single monitor 2D Amiga 3000 setup and the CV64/3D is also good for 2D but requires a 2 monitor setup and the 3D is barely worthwhile. A Voodoo 3 or 4 card, even through a slow Mediator bus, has worthwhile 3D support. I had optimized Warp3D to provide a couple of extra fps which was descent with a typical 15-25 fps. No thanks to Trevor for not supporting and effectively killing 68k Warp3D so it would not compete with his PPC hardware in an attempt to force Amiga users to PPC. Amiga users just leave the Amiga market instead of buying his ridiculous hardware. The CSMK3 still has some advantages other 68060 accelerators do not like Ultra SCSI support with transfer speeds which most new accelerators do not match. It is not just that my hardware is dying but the Amiga is dying with fighting among factions/camps and personal attacks on even developers including me. The Amiga was a hobby I used to enjoy and which I tried to bring back but at some point it becomes a lost cause with mental cases instead of intellectuals remaining. The dying Amiga situation and my dying Amiga hardware situation are depressing and I do not feel motivated to use the Amiga anymore. I still respect the Amiga history and may throw in a game from time to time for nostalgia purposes as long as I have working hardware which is more than most Amiga fans do.

kriz Quote:

It costs money but other hobbies like cars or even high end pc gaming costs even more.

The Amiga is much like an antique car that new parts can no longer be bought for. There are some aftermarket parts but they are produced in low quantities so have high prices. Original antique cars and parts get more and more expensive all the time. The remaining people who own and collect them often work on them themselves. The original antique cars may have been mass produced but the masses leave over time because of the hassle of maintaining them and due to the lack of modern features. That is where the 68k Amiga hardware is now. For most antique car fans, it is more practical to play Gran Turismo, which is like emulating the 68k Amiga, and go to antique car shows and museums. If the tech is good, new models can be produced based on it which happens with both cars and computers. PPC AmigaOS 4 hardware was an attempt to reintroduce a new model of the Amiga but all they kept was the AmigaOS while throwing away the original 68k CPU and chipset which most fans would describe as the Amiga hardware and the reason they bought the Amiga. It is like they kept the interior and ergonomics of a car discarding everything else but thought that was enough for the partial Amiga badge and a ridiculously high price for the PPC embedded hardware bait and switch.

kriz Quote:

But we for sure get older, at our local meetings and forums it show very little (or any) new users, sometimes some returning (had a A500 before and so on). Many of the returning have a few months of nostalgia and then disappear again, but some stay around...

You still have a local Amiga user group and meetings? Only a few of the biggest cities in the US still have Amiga user groups. Of the first Amiga users I know, one is no longer alive and another has Alzheimers. It is difficult and expensive for previous Amiga users to get back into Amiga hardware even if they wanted to. There are plenty of middle aged Amiga fans here but the Amiga is generally viewed as embarrassing because it failed and attempts to revive it have been pitiful. I could hold a party of local middle age Amiga fans with more people than show up to some of the Amiga shows in the US. None of these Amiga fans are active Amiga users and few still own Amiga hardware. The RPi is seen as hip and useful though. Many younger users at least know it is cheap computer hardware where they are more likely to know the Amiga as a Latino girlfriend.

kriz Quote:

Let us hope for a good solution for all parties but the stubborn Amiga user/devs have not always (or even often) worked together easily since Commodore went away.. Still we are here some 30+ years later :)

Change is uncomfortable at first but sometimes necessary and for the best. I believe Mike Battilana has good intentions for the 68k AmigaOS. Hyperion had ethical issues and their finances were exhausted which are not good for AmigaOS development. I wish Hyperion the best with their game porting business though.

I am not sure what Cloanto has ever done (or is willing or planning to do) besides selling an UI for an emulator and kickstart files.

@kriz

That must be a first in computer world, buy one license and install it on all computers you can...

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@kriz

Quote:

You buy one license and can install it on all your machines, never says anything else. Some comments on forums do not change that.

And "all my machines" also include those of my friends, my kids, my siblings, my siblings’ kids, and their friends…

Quote:

Not any big issue i would say though :)

But weird nevertheless, maybe a leftover from a long time ago.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

1. ZORRAM 10X SAGA 68080!!!

2. GOTO 1.

3. See #1. or #2.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 20-Jul-2026 at 04:42 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 20-Jul-2026 at 04:41 AM.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.