@Daedalus

Thanks. So far the welcome has been reminiscent of a hazing incident...

@terminills

I will assume you are kidding. But in case you are not, you know that it would have to practically (no kidding) be re-written from scratch.

With enough money, it wouldn't be impossible. You're looking at me putting a team together. You have a couple hundred thousand ready to start?

Quote:

terminills wrote: @Cod3r Quote: But i'm going to give you and the naysayers an offer. And i'm 100% serious on this. Tell me what you exactly want Aros to do. Give me a price on full memory protection and SMP.

@Ezrec

I'll check out the code in depth a bit later, thought I did take a brief look at it. I can't test it right now, not on my development system.

@Yssing

You are probably right . At work, I am with people from India, China, Sweden, Germany and many other countries. There are cultural differences, of course, but all of us communicate well enough to get stuff done. No fighting about who can't do what. We finish the job and go on to the next one.

And of course, price and product are the magic combination. It almost has to be a balance, I do understand that. Thanks for trying to bring clarity to the thread.

@Dirk-B

I could sure try if I could find the sources. Can't locate them on the site.

I do see the x86 DVD download. I was unsure Amiga fans would even be into this. Frankly, this would appear to be the future, as x86 killed PPC on the desktop years ago.

There are some powerful multi-core Power architecture chips, but I haven't heard of any Amiga products using them, so x86 is the least expensive, most powerful and readily available alternative.

Quote:

Dirk-B wrote: @Cod3r What do you think about AEROS? Could you make it run on your board? Link: http://www.aeros-os.org/

@Cod3r
Welcome again : )
Maybe the community can help you.

Can someone explain me what is going on here in 3 sentences?

Are you talking about Coldfire or x86 systems?
If you don't care for the type of CPU... x86 is for sure the most economic choice. Not the best, but the most economic.

Than again you should keep an eye on AROS which is available for nearly everything.
Not sure about mips..


PS:
I can tell you how much a port to coldfire would cost if you like.
Count 3 devs at least.. 2 Month work.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 15-Jul-2012 at 08:39 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 15-Jul-2012 at 08:39 PM.

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@Cod3r

Don't let negative posts here discourage you. I rarely post here, maybe once in a while check what's going on, but to say the Amiga 'community' is fragmented is an understatement. Some people can be overly aggressive or seem unreasonable, but that is probably due to past history of the previous (or current) Amiga copyright owners.

My best advice would be simply to compare what you can do with current solutions (fpga, natami, minimig) and if pricing is reasonable and the coldfire board is faster, then perhaps you'd have a small market.

It all will really come down to performance and price. I'd also ignore demands of proof from people here, or folks asking for a super duper ppc system w/ os4, or whatever. Just make what you want, and again, if it's better than what exists, there is a niche market. But keep in mind it's very niche... to sell in larger amounts, the price will need to be in Pi/Ouya/Android stick range.

@phoenixkonsole

I had more an idea like:

PC's are thrown away for little money now, so... if we could
put a pci-card in it which act a bit as Amiga(ish) hardware and
put on top of it an Amiga(ish) OS, that way you could get
more out of the hardware while using Amiga(ish) software.

Emulation is fine, like for example Amithlon did or Amiga Forever
does, but with some Amiga(ish) hardware under the emulation
you could get maybe a better experience.

Like i said it is just an idea.

The more choices we have the better, to bring out the Amiga-experience.

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@Dirk-B
Yeah.. but i would just include an catweazel in an PC.. also amigaish but works : )
A complete working Coldfiresystem for 99€ or less could sell well...
But an ARM device or AMIGA on a stick for less then 99€ would do better.
CPU doesn't matter... the experience is all.
Poweron.. AmigaOS... ahhhhh!
Poweron...AROS....ahhhh!

The lower the price the better the chance that one buys it as "toy".. so it doesn't hurt the pocket.

If you need to emulate in order to make a coldfire compatible.. it won't be better than a way faster quadcore ARM.

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@Cod3r


For that price I can have a few devs who I know and trust do the same thing. was I kidding nope not at all. I was serious.

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@phoenixkonsole

An Amiga(ish) OS on a stick for a few bucks would indeed invade the world.

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I didn't follow the initial coldfire experiments much, but maybe someone can enlighten me ... what is the advantage to using coldfire? I realize there is some similarity to the 68K and it follows the same lineage, but if needing low level emulation to run 68K code, is there any real reason to use it over an Arm or x86 using emulation?

I'm not asking to put down coldfire efforts... asking because I honestly don't know.

If Aros (or WB) could be coldfire optimized, so it ran without much in the way of emulation, and existing software could easily be recompiled for coldfire, I guess that could be one benefit. Although I expect for gaming, it'd all be 68K emulation, which again leads me back to wondering what the benefit is.

@phoenixkonsole

I'm saying that x86 would be the best long term solution for the Amiga, not PPC. The only binary compatibility that should be guaranteed is 68k, as it is the original Amiga's native architecture.

The only reason I made a project on the ColdFire board is because it was available to me at no cost. I don't have a special love for the chip. I just happened to do my project with what was there.

If I had HW engineering skills (and money), i'd probably would have used a different architecture, maybe x86.

Other than the endian-ness, the x86 IS the best choice. But 68k can be emulated well with x86 because of its raw power.

Quote:

phoenixkonsole wrote: @Cod3r Welcome again : ) Maybe the community can help you. Can someone explain me what is going on here in 3 sentences? Are you talking about Coldfire or x86 systems? If you don't care for the type of CPU... x86 is for sure the most economic choice. Not the best, but the most economic. Than again you should keep an eye on AROS which is available for nearly everything. Not sure about mips.. PS: I can tell you how much a port to coldfire would cost if you like. Count 3 devs at least.. 2 Month work.

@Nameless

I don't feel there is an advantage at all. You're right. An ARM design would be fine, it it were native. For power, you'd need x86. Nothing else commonly available is going to touch it.

The Nvidia Tegra SoC's are interesting, but AROS doesn't use multiple cores. Personally, I wouldn't even use a multi-core processor with AROS in its current state, it would be pointless. Just throw it on a fast, single-core CPU and call it a day.

There is no point is building a system with hardware that the OS can't use. If AROS/Amiga OS is best for single-core, so be it. Worry about dual-core when/if the OS supports it.

@Cod3r

For PowerPC / AmigaOS4.x and up, you need to talk whit Hyperion-Entrainment, Steven Soli.

You can also try to get in contact whit MorphOS team, they are how ever not interested in over prized hardware or low end hardware, they are currently concentrating on supporting old Mac hardware.

As for 680x0 / ColdFire, I don't think you need to worry about hardware patents, you can build it as long as you don't provided the kickstart roms, needed to boot the OS, or you can try to get a agreement whit Hyperion-Entrainment, they have how ever been bit negative to back porting AmigaOS4.x or working on older versions AmigaOS3.x, they might be willing to let you provide the kickstart roms for small fee.

Don't worry about Amiga Inc, they only have rights to the name “Amiga”, nothing else, and they can't even sell or distribute AmigaOS anymore.

AROS is a option, but is slow on 680x0 / ColdFire, but its more modern then AmigaOS3.x, there are videos on youtube.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2012 at 11:23 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2012 at 11:21 PM.

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@Cod3r

Quote:

OMG, not only does my character get insulted, now you are demanding that I hand my code over for free to prove myself?

AROS is open source, none profit, the license might require you to provide the source code, for changes you do.

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@Cod3r

If there is no advantage regarding compatibility between coldfire and 68K, is there at least a price advantage compared to x86? I'm not sure what coldfire chips typically go for.

If some sort of mini-amiga coldfire system could be sold for $100-$200 or so, it could sell decently I think. It may not be the optimal chip used, but I think you'd sell a decent number to former Amiga people.

You'd probably need to get below that price if you want to appeal to a wider audience.

I do recall when the natami team looked at coldfire, I thought they said if WB could be recompiled/optimized for coldfire, it'd run natively. Is that possible to do with Aros? Recompiling old software for Aros-coldfire could be one alternative to emulation and at least offer one benefit over other chips.

After a run in the park, and some reflection, I have come up with an "official" outline of what I intend to do.

This way, no one has to doubt anything about me, and we can get along and try to make the most of it.

Long story short, I like the Amiga. I'm staying. You can't run me away.

If the boss allows the pics and videos of the prototype board, let me post them, you'll see the proof of concept and we'll see what people want to do from there. If my company will target the Amiga market is an entirely different question.

Now, if my boss doesn't allow me to show the hardware in pics or videos, I know for sure that the company probably won't support the idea of supporting Amiga. After all, if I can't even show the product, how in the heck would the potential buyers want it?

So in that scenario, I will simply stop work on what I have and help out another project. Starting ASAP, that's what i'll do if the boss doesn't like the idea. Then my coding expertise can go instantly into helping the community. That way no one has to doubt what I can do, as you'll see the results in other projects.

Because I don't have a lot of free time due to work, I have to pick what I believe will help the platform the best.

And that is AROS. Particularly the 68k and x86 ports. Mainly because I can work on those ports most effectively due to the hardware I have access to. 68k is a must because it is the Amiga's "native tongue". I feel that an x86 hardware solution would be ideal, like the PCI card that others mentioned before, or maybe even an official x86 Amiga. I'm not talking PC clone, but an Amiga-style system with an x86 processor at its core.

AEROS is interesting as well, because it potentially has further reach. If I could get the sources, I could start working on pushing that as well. I like the concept.

@NutsAboutAmiga

I don't own or have access to a PPC Amiga. I have an couple of old Macs, a G4 Powerbook and a quad G5 tower, that's it.

Not familiar with Morph OS, and I would not spend the cash to run Amiga OS 4.x when Aros exists and I can improve that myself. Unless it does something Aros can't.

I am not worried about hardware patents, as everything I did was in code, and of my own creation (except Aros, where I changed only some routines). And Aros is slow on 68k, with the prototype board it is acceptable, but it still needs further optimization.

Don't need a video, I can see it when I get back to work tomorrow

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Cod3r For PowerPC / AmigaOS4.x and up, you need to talk whit Hyperion-Entrainment, Steven Soli. You can also try to get in contact whit MorphOS team, they are how ever not interested in over prized hardware or low end hardware, they are currently concentrating on supporting old Mac hardware. As for 680x0 / ColdFire, I don't think you need to worry about hardware patents, you can build it as long as you don't provided the kickstart roms, needed to boot the OS, or you can try to get a agreement whit Hyperion-Entrainment, they have how ever been bit negative to back porting AmigaOS4.x or working on older versions AmigaOS3.x, they might be willing to let you provide the kickstart roms for small fee. Don't worry about Amiga Inc, they only have rights to the name “Amiga”, nothing else, and they can't even sell or distribute AmigaOS anymore. AROS is a option, but is slow on 680x0 / ColdFire, but its more modern then AmigaOS3.x, there are videos on youtube.

@NutsAboutAmiga

You'd have to read the whole thread to understand the context in which I meant that. If I released my work, of course I would provide the source.

I was speaking about not releasing it right now in the condition it is in, on demand.

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Cod3r Quote: OMG, not only does my character get insulted, now you are demanding that I hand my code over for free to prove myself? AROS is open source, none profit, the license might require you to provide the source code, for changes you do.