@Cod3r

Quote:

Cod3r wrote: I mean no hard feelings, really. I'm just saying it like it is.

I know your mew to the whole online Amiga scene but as you have found out yourself now, "just saying it like it is" is a big No No in online Amigaland...

Even though I've been an Amiga user for over 26 years non stop, I've only been part of the online Amiga scene for just over 2 of them and in that time I've had a lifetime ban and countless other bans for "saying it like it is"...

You see no matter what your told by those wielding the tiniest bit of perceived power in online Amigaland, there is one rule for one lot and a different set for others, as you in your short time here have sadly found out...

Why it's that way I could say but I'd better not as it usually leads to another ban...

I just hope your experience here so far has not put you off with your project and you shrug it off and continue with your project...

_________________

@wawa

I've got run, so this might be quick... i'll elaborate later.

I'm not flip-flopping, I can't use or display ANY of the past 11 months work (in total) in public is I use non-GPL or other code that has a license that is non-OSI acknowledged. Not my decision at all. Look up EmuTOS for Atari. It is GPL. The copyright owner made the OS officially released the sources years ago. Aros is not GPL or another license recognized by OSI. Look it up, i'm not making this up.

I guess my company has a legal requirements to use sources from OSI recognized licenses. I'm not sure, i'm no lawyer.

I know that a few times in the past, I was asked to re-do some code from scratch that was GPL'd because of security reasons (one of our clients) wanted private source. So I had to reinvent the wheel so that the code was free of open source code.

And you may be right about the board from my company. I never said it was ideal. I just made something work on it. If I could have designed it myself (I couldn't have) I would have went x86 or ARM.

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Cod3r dont let you fool with those bounties, magellan bounty is for opening sources of that application. it has not looked as it will be ever completed from start on. the application in question works already on aros 68k, and there is no bounty for porting and extending this application for other flavors, so you couldnt earn anything here. as for kickstart bounties thea are complete, even if there is still room for improvements, both developers are working on it further. i dont think you will find any financial motivation on any amiga bounty pages, it can be only seen as partly reward. thats all. btw i dont understand this constant flipflopping, either you say you wont be disencouraged on your amiga project by anyone and just few posts later you declare you go for atari just because there is a single critic in between. do what pleases and suits you by all means, if it is atari (which you said before, was not demanding enough for your skills) so be it. aros has an open license. read it or ask here: http://aros-exec.org/ or on the dev board. if he is initially positive you can explain it to your boss. otherwise leave it. also there are other coldfire development boards that can be used for the project. bbrv has supplied such freescale boards for feasibility tests to natami developers few years ago. as i said its unlikely an industrial board will meet allowance to be distributed as "amiga" nor will it likely meet the price expectations of customers.

@OlafS25

Quote:

[Up to now there was never a problem for anyone and codes/software under this license is already used on other projects.

The problem is AROS does not come with the type of license that his company can defend if there were a legal challenge related to running AROS on their proprietary hardware.

One might use and example of Sony porting Windows to PS3. Preposterous example for AROS we all might say, but that's how the legal eagles view it.

Plaz

@Cod3r

Most likely you have figured out that there is no big change to make much money on our niche currently. Only some pocket money for more hobby stuff.

btw. one thing, you can get a motherboard loaned or donated if you develop + deliver. That's worth something at least.
(some info about loan HW for developers)

Here is my list of SW things that are in desperate need of more resources:
-wx widgets (bounty page) (status, need for new developers etc...)
-SATA drivers for more PCI & PCIe SATA chips.
-OpenOfficeLite/Light port to AOS4,MOS,AROS
-instructions patcher/emulator to enable AOS4 & MOS on P1022 PPC chip
-x86 JIT emulator (DOSbox / Qemu or some other based) (a little related bounty idea of bochs)
-JAVA (one part of it) (status thread etc)
-AOS4 dev team/ MOS dev team /AROS dev team to get more done sooner.
-"AmigaBIOS-NG" - replacement of u-boot to make custom HW to boot faster etc.


(AOS4 dev infos)
http://openamiga.org/

UPDATE:
One thing that we need pretty desperately is a good debugging tools (GUIs and all).
http://bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com/index.php has been talking about it, but no time to do.
And Simon Archer http://codebench.co.uk/ , no time to do.

Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Jul-2012 at 07:24 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Cod3r

Quote:

Is there a place to upload files here? I have a 1GB flash drive image (compressed it would be much smaller). If it is needed as an ISO, give me a day or two to get it together.

Perhaps is could be shared with the AROS team through bit torrent?

Plaz

@Cod3r

Quote:

I can't use or display ANY of the past 11 months work (in total) in public is I use non-GPL or other code that has a license that is non-OSI acknowledged. Not my decision at all. Look up EmuTOS for Atari. It is GPL. The copyright owner made the OS officially released the sources years ago. Aros is not GPL or another license recognized by OSI. Look it up, i'm not making this up.

We had another company propose a challenge to the community for a general project. They reached the same conclusion, although they stated their intent and their conclusion a bit differently. I won't elaborate because I know where this thread will proceed if I do.

Sadly, be it AmigaOS4, MorphOS, AROS, Classic AmigaOS, hardware developers, software developers, the hobbyists, business minded people looking for change...
Everyone with any sincere intent has, at some point, come up against either the legal side of what can be done and/or the special interest groups who use the legal side to promote and enhance their own positions.

There is plenty that you can do, as you can see from merely reading here about projects that proceed without these issues.

I suggest you contact the folks who speak for each group to gain a better understanding. Then you can justify any effort you might put in as being worthwhile and free from a work stoppage at some point when someone starts to talk legalities. It sounds worse than it is, but I wouldn't worry about it or let it discourage you.

#6

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@number6

I do not see that to this extent anymore. You can not use "Amiga" for a product, but I do not think that this is really important. From technical side there is the 68k ROM and the installation discs that are copyrighted but for that you now have Aros 68k and Kickstart Replacement. As long as you use these components and avoid using the name "Amiga" you are not violating rights.

@Cod3r, plaz


Quote:

I'm not flip-flopping, I can't use or display ANY of the past 11 months work (in total) in public is I use non-GPL or other code that has a license that is non-OSI acknowledged. Not my decision at all. Look up EmuTOS for Atari. It is GPL. The copyright owner made the OS officially released the sources years ago. Aros is not GPL or another license recognized by OSI. Look it up, i'm not making this up.

okay, thats another reason to talk directly to jason as he was taking major part in licensing discussion lately. im quite sure this can be worked out, if both sides (ie cod3r and aros team) take it serious and show some insight. aros is being made with openness in mind in the end. but, cod3r, you will need somehow to prove you are serious too to aros team if you want their support in such an essential matter.

therefore i encourage you again to register and talk about it at their forums. it has no reason to discuss it here as neither os4 nor mos comes into question for technical and licensing reasons. os4 as example only supports hand chosen ppc hardware, the team makes port themselves and let them pay good money, some 50k eur as one of betatester confirmed.

the only alternatives that come to my mind is to

1)look for another hardware, which means practically start another project from the scratch

2) keep your hardware and license directly original amiga kickstarts, at best from cloanto, as jens shoenfeld, individual computers, seems to proceed:

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2012-07-00058-EN.html

Quote:

We're currently negotiating about including Kickstart licenses into the ACA500, so the built-in flashrom can be pre-loaded with different Kickstart licenses.

but it will likely meet same distrust on part of your employer.

3) regard this board (which is an attempted amiga 4000 accelerator, you will need the original machine), which is just in an early project stadium now, eventually join the team and base your 68k solution on that. you might even be able to earn some money here, i dont know..

http://ultimateppc.nl/

Last edited by wawa on 17-Jul-2012 at 03:04 PM.

@Cod3r

Quote:

X1000 by Amigaone

LOL!

You might have also heard of the XE by AmigaOne.

AmigaOne isn't a company, it's a machine. Infact originally it was a specification Amiga Inc released. X1000 and XE are the differnent models.

Quote:

And essentially, yes-Neither ColdFire or PPC are binary compatible to 68k.

Well no wonder it's been so hard! Forget that. As good as an Arm.

Quote:

PPC is based off a collaboration between Freescale, IBM and someone else who I can't remember at this point.

Apple? Back when Freescale were called Motorola. From the AIM alliance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance

Last edited by Hypex on 18-Jul-2012 at 06:04 AM.

@cod3r

That's too bad that things did not go well with your company. If another Amiga company needs collaboration or assistance from your company then the people that are in charge of Amiga companies should contact your company directly.

Meanwhile you can always work on AROS boutnties.

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AmigaOS = MorphOS = AROS = RISC OS

@Cod3r

The thing is, we have all sorts here, from trolls via troll feeders to the opposite.

Stooping down to the level of the most sarcastic commenters in your first thread isn't going to help your cause.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Cod3r

I am with KimmoK, get yourself some Amiga(ish) hardware and
help the devs with your programming skills. And if you are really
as good as you say then you can pull out a contract somewhere.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@Dirk-B
erm.. i think he has got a good job? why would he want another where he supposedly wouldnt even get paid?

@wawa

Thats cald a hobby, and if he can get a contract in his free time,
then he can get his money back for the stuff he has to buy.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Multicore support scheduled for AmigaOS4.2 and it well known, I guess AROS developers are trying to get there before, we will see, as closed source project like AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS are not so open about that they are working on and how long it’s going to take.

I heard SMP support will also come with auto-stack enlargement, Pixel Shaders and full memory protection too, right?


@cod3r:

AFAIK Aros Public License is some kind of slightly modified Mozilla Public License, that probably won´t be liked by your employer but perhaps somebody with deeper AROS Public License knowledge can point us to the differences with MPL

It´s a pity you have worked hard in your spare time and now you can´t show it. I hope Toni or Jason can take a look at some of the changes you did in AROS code to improve performance. Just don´t get frustrated, great hardware designers like David Haynie (one of the fathers of Amiga) saw lots of his products being killed even if they were in a functional state and would have sold better than the official products.

I hope you stay here, perhaps you find something you like in our community, despiting the internal wars there´s interesting diversity and there are many things a programmer can have fun with, from classic stuff to creating apps, demoscene (Amiga demoscene is one of the coolest), Amiga NG (AROS, MorphOS, OS4...)

Just try to enjoy what you do and ignore the trolls. In Spain there´s an old saying "hace un día maravilloso, seguro que viene alguien y lo jode", roughly translated as "it's a wonderful day, you can be sure someone will come and f**k it". Just hace fun and enjoy what you do without caring much about proving things to others or you´ll spend more time replying to trolls in forums that doing what you like.

Last edited by Crumb on 17-Jul-2012 at 09:50 PM.
Last edited by Crumb on 17-Jul-2012 at 09:48 PM.

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@Dirk-B

Quote:

Thats cald a hobby, and if he can get a contract in his free time, then he can get his money back for the stuff he has to buy.

hobby on a contractual basis? what is hobby about it? its work. and work that hardly allows you to pay your tools, whats so attractive about it?

but i guess the answer is up to the original poster.

Last edited by wawa on 17-Jul-2012 at 10:45 PM.

@KimmoK

I'm not looking to get rich or anything, I just want to contribute what I can, when I can-Without pressure and drama.

I'll look into those links, since I have plenty of time waiting on slow YouTube encoding my video upload.

@Dirk-B

I would but the cost for most of it is out of my range right now. I've got student loans to pay back... a master's degree worth

I have a Mac quad G5, and a Powerbook G4... maybe i'll try running MorphOS on those and check it out.

Quote:

Dirk-B wrote: @Cod3r I am with KimmoK, get yourself some Amiga(ish) hardware and help the devs with your programming skills. And if you are really as good as you say then you can pull out a contract somewhere.

@Hypex

I learn something everyday. Though I knew the last one, I just temporarily forgot. Went to a few Freescale seminars, but I was half asleep during the presentations

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @Cod3r Quote: X1000 by Amigaone LOL! You might have also of the XE by AmigaOne. AmigaOne isn't a company, it's a machine. Infact originally it was a specification Amiga Inc released. X1000 and XE are the differnent models. Quote: And essentially, yes-Neither ColdFire or PPC are binary compatible to 68k. Well no wonder it's been so hard! Forget that. As good as an Arm. Quote: PPC is based off a collaboration between Freescale, IBM and someone else who I can't remember at this point. Apple? Back when Freescale were called Motorola. From the AIM alliance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance

Last edited by Cod3r on 18-Jul-2012 at 02:46 AM.

@number6

That's sounds interesting, only because i'm curious as to what happened. If another company had problems with the license, why not change it and progress?

A corporate sponsorship can go a long way... and legitimize the platform. Look at Linux for the best example.

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT saying Amiga(R) OS or its contemporaries are not legitimate. I am speaking in the sense of being officially recognized as something other than a "hobby" OS.

Quote:

number6 wrote: We had another company propose a challenge to the community for a general project. They reached the same conclusion, although they stated their intent and their conclusion a bit differently. I won't elaborate because I know where this thread will proceed if I do. Sadly, be it AmigaOS4, MorphOS, AROS, Classic AmigaOS, hardware developers, software developers, the hobbyists, business minded people looking for change... Everyone with any sincere intent has, at some point, come up against either the legal side of what can be done and/or the special interest groups who use the legal side to promote and enhance their own positions. There is plenty that you can do, as you can see from merely reading here about projects that proceed without these issues. I suggest you contact the folks who speak for each group to gain a better understanding. Then you can justify any effort you might put in as being worthwhile and free from a work stoppage at some point when someone starts to talk legalities. It sounds worse than it is, but I wouldn't worry about it or let it discourage you. #6