@zerohero

OK, I read them I don't disagree with what he stated the PS3 and XBox 360 is capable of (displaying 1080p @ 60 frame per second, sure the PS2 can display 1280X1024 but nearly all games are 480i or 480p). What I disagree with is:

"Then all new PS3 games will look weak. Neither 360 nor PS3 have the horse power necessary for 1080p with full effects. It really is that simple. Don't drink the Sony kool-aid."

My message regards the latter and not the former. Is this really so hard to understand?

@MikeB

Your disagreement is one thing, this is about you quoting him badly, and even editing his words to say something else. That is not OK. It has nothing to do with you disagreeing or not.

Just don't do it again, that's the bottom line. You are not allowed to change his words when quoting something.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

Last edited by zerohero on 06-Apr-2007 at 10:20 AM.

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

I don't agree, I understood his message completely and quoted only the relevant paragraph I was responding to. That you got upset with regard to: "all new PS3 [1080p] games will look weak", I find quite funny as that's exactly what he said. Especially interesting because I have actually been quoted very badly in the past without you making some fuss about this.

@ Thread

Anyway back on topic, Super Rub 'A' Dub is now available on the PSN. A fun simple 1080p game available for 4.99 Euro, I myself and my girlfriend had a lot of fun playing this game (she loves rubber ducks, she even has a T-shirt with a rubber duck and on MSN she has a rubber duck as her avatar! The game makes interesting use of the PS3 motion sensing. You control a mother duck and you have to save your little ducklings. The rubber duck is moved by tilting the underground, you can hop by quickly moving the Sixaxis upwards, funny after some playing and getting back to Resistance for the first minute I still felt like hopping the Sixaxis like I had to in Super Rub 'A' Dub, instead of pressing the jump button!

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 10:25 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't agree, I understood his message completely and quoted only the relevant paragraph I was responding to. That you got upset with regard to: "all new PS3 [1080p] games will look weak", I find quite funny as that's exactly what he said. Especially interesting because I have actually been quoted very badly in the past without you making some fuss about this.

That is not what he said. It's part of a bigger context. You're changing the meaning of what he said completely.

About not making a fuss when you get quoted badly, I have never received one single AR about it. So no, I have not made a fuss about it, I didn't even know about it.

This is my final post on the matter in this thread, just stick to netiquette and we're going to have no problems in the future.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

I am not disagreeing with Moderation policy, and I thank you for the references, I feel there might be need for a little thinking about things.

What I read certianly had edited and used only part of sentence, but the edit was indicated with square brackets (this may not be the same convention used in other languages). The insertion was sympathetic, it simply brought the subject in logical relationship with the predicate, displacing the 1080p from the end to the remark itself.

The distortion was merely to drop the qualification that any of the consoles would suffer, but nothing was made of this, or the reasons given it, and an answer was implied by the response, without disadvantaging the original author.

Shortening, amending for reading sense, and discarding parts thought irrelevant is normal practice in all forms of publishing. The point of judgement does not I believe, live in the act, but in the context.

Is there a significant distortion (all quoting is by nature a distortion), and is this distortion being abused by the quoter? I can't see it, in this case, others may differ.

Sympathetic quoting is alright, but conveying every thought of someone through a quote is impossible. Unsympathetic quoting, quoting in a way that significantly disadvantages the source is a different matter.

This could be partially solved for the site if it was possible to include a source link to the passages being quoted.

What is unacceptable is a quote and edit which reverses a meaning, or is done for the purpose of ridicule, or a declared mistyping or unfortunate phrase is used ridicule a source. I just can't see it in this particular instance.

We all want our entire thought replied to, but this very rarely happens. It us usually assumed to be enough to convey the gist of what is being argued and leave it to the author or the source itself to qualify exactly what was meant.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@BrianK

Quote:

Yet sales of Blu-Ray are 2:1 or 3:1, depending on your source, not anywhere near 40:1.

Although you quoted me out of context as I wasn't referring to North America but Australia instead, unlike others I will be a man enough about this and won't generate a huge fuss, as I usually do giving you the benefit of the doubt it was just a honest mistake. (Anyhow this is a forum thread I am posting to myself. so I clarified the proper context myself like I always do, IMO generating fuss only distorts actual from actual on topic discussion)

But you may find this latest report interesting regarding high definition movie sales in North America, Nielsen Tracking Report Tells Which HD Sells:

Top 25 titles sold during the year
1) "The Departed" Blu-ray
2) "Casino Royale" Blu-ray
* 3) "The Departed" HD-DVD *
4) "The Prestige" Blu-ray
5) "Crank" Blu-ray
6) "Saw 3" Blu-ray
7) "Superman Returns" Blu-ray
* 8) "Batman Begins" HD-DVD *
9) "Black Hawk Down" Blu-ray
10) "Underworld Evolution" Blu-ray
11) "The Fifth Element" Blu-ray
12) "X-Men: The Last Stand" Blu-ray
13) "Talladega Nights" Blu-ray
14) "The Guardian" Blu-ray
15) "Open Season" Blu-ray
16) "Ice Age: The Meltdown" Blu-ray
17) "Babel" Blu-ray
18) "Flyboys" Blu-ray
19) "House of Flying Daggers" Blu-ray
20) "Mission Impossible" 3-pack Blu-ray
21) "Click" Blu-ray"
22) "The Terminator" Blu-ray
23) "The Covenant" Blu-ray
24) Gridiron Gang" Blu-ray
25) "Kingdom of Heaven" Director's Cut Blu-ray

2 out of 25 top selling HD movies were Blu-Ray movies.

Stats graph:
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1881/blurayxr8.jpg

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 11:32 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 10:58 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 10:56 AM.

@GregS

Quote:

Is there a significant distortion (all quoting is by nature a distortion), and is this distortion being abused by the quoter? I can't see it, in this case, others may differ.

The problem is the number of people reporting him, again and again, with the bad quoting. A lot of those ARs we have just deleted, but we can't ignore users who feel their words are being twisted to something completely different.

In this case I have been spoken to Trezzer about it, but there are plenty of others it has happened to, as well.

Quote:

This could be partially solved for the site if it was possible to include a source link to the passages being quoted.

If you have the post you're quoting before you, you can also link to the particular post, it's not that hard.

It's all about how often it happens, really. Sure there are people that occasionally quote something badly, but we've had numerous reports about it in this thread alone. We have to do something about that, I know you know that, since you're a former staff here.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

Quote:

The problem is the number of people reporting him, again and again, with the bad quoting. A lot of those ARs we have just deleted, but we can't ignore users who feel their words are being twisted to something completely different. In this case I have been spoken to Trezzer about it, but there are plenty of others it has happened to, as well.

Why not provide me some examples in private? On 1 occasion I apologizedfor not being clear enough. It was with regard to one message I was responding to, but the content I was responding to within his message wasn't regarding his own perspectives. He listed a thread title amongst others, and I quoted this part and shared my perspective on what the thread title said (which was not per se a view the message poster agreed with). Nothing really of severe importance, but as the message poster got upset I apologized. And I think you Zeroheo tried to make a fuss out of that one, I think I am being given special treatment here at AmigaWorld.

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 11:34 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 11:06 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 11:04 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Super Rub 'A' Dub

Here's a trailer:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=18242&type=wmv

However IMO the trailer doesn't provide a full perspective on the gameplay, for instance the sharks you see in the video you can turn around laying on their back helplessly by hopping and you should try to push them over the edge by tilting so you don't have to worry about them eating you or your little ducklings.

Also through the internet you can check how well you have done in comparison to others playing this game through a ranking system similar to Gran Turismo HD.

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 11:30 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

And I think you Zeroheo tried to make a fuss out of that one, I think I am being given special treatment here at AmigaWorld.

No, I didn't handle that one at all. I could probably look it up, but it wasn't me. And no, I don't treat you in any special way, if you look in my first post I warned three of you, including a moderator here at this very site. I also expect to be corrected by any of the other staff if I'm doing something wrong, or abusing the power that has been given to me.

Please, don't make this thread about moderation now, I know I had to step in and correct a few things here, but can't we just leave it at that?

Regards,
Joachim Birging

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@GregS

May I suggest, that some specific reason be given for locking the thread, or threatening to do so. No doubt you have your reasons, but I cannot see any myself.

Other then getting close to off topic, and a replay of the previous PS3 vs rest threads, the (borderline) personal attacks, a few ARs against some posts things starting to heat up (as in the older threads) and I wanted to discuss the warnings given without policing this thread as well in the mean time.

The thread was locked, and after we discussed this unlocked again. I never implied the lock would stay.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@zerohero

Quote:

but can't we just leave it at that?

That's what I suggested, maybe you didn't provide examples in your PM to me because you lack hard evidence?

And yes it was you and AMiGR, AMiGR made the public warning and you referred to this later on to justify the week banning.

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 11:52 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

And yes it was you and AMiGR, AMiGR made the public warning and you referred to this later on to justify the week banning.

Ah, OK, I see we're taking about two different occasions. Yes, I handled that one.

Quote:

That's what I suggested, maybe you didn't provide examples in your PM to me because you lack hard evidence?

I told why there was no "hard evidence", AFAIK the AW.Net engine doesn't save old abuse reports. At least I can't find them.

I tire of this, it's as simple as keeping to netiquette and you won't have to deal with us, same goes for everyone. Now, could we leave the thread to PS3?

Regards,
Joachim Birging

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

Quote:

I told why there was no "hard evidence", AFAIK the AW.Net engine doesn't save old abuse reports. At least I can't find them.

At least in the past AW did, deleted abuse reports could still be found I AFAIR they include dates, if so this shouldn't be too hard.

Getting on topic:

No more 20GB PS3: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/05/sony-style-stores-done-with-20gb-model/

Also, Nintendo just partnered with eSol for SDIO api's and proper USB 2.0 stack. This means that hopefully, the Wii will use it's SD slot for more things than just 2.0GB SD cards and open up the doors for external USB hard drives.

Shiggy M. recently said that there were updates coming to the Wii to make it appeal more to the "hardcore" crowd. A rumored DEMO channel may be coming with the use of an external hard drive for downloads...

Looks like the Wii's features may close in on the 360 and PS3.

I'm hoping they eventually unlock a 540p or 600p video mode as the Wii browser reports a screen size of 1024x600 to web pages... 540p would scale nicely on 1080p-capable TV's...

Note: I believe PGR2 actually renders in 1024x600 and is scaled by the 360's built-in scaler to whatever resolution the system is set for...

@Seer

Sorry Seer, I arrived to catch up and found the lock announcement, it's fine. Moderators must do their job as they see it, I wasn't trying to argue against decisions but gently suggest that such actions need to be explained when they can be - my first impression was not as good as it could be.

In your post you made it clear that you were going to consult, which is a good thing.

While more on MikeB's side on this question I have not had any problem with those opposed to his point of view - so the appearance of a lock seemed to my mind - a bit out of place, but I also don't see the reports whereas the moderators do, perceptions are bound to be different because of this.

I seriously believe that the positions on quoting needs to be thought about, but that is by way of a general suggestion and for the moderators to decide.

Forgive a return to this subject in this thread, I will not prolong this further, thanks for replies from the moderators and others.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@GregS

Quote:

Is there a significant distortion (all quoting is by nature a distortion), and is this distortion being abused by the quoter? I can't see it, in this case, others may differ.

Since that one initial sentence was an sarcastic exaggeration to drive a point home, in response to a post that was as unrealistic, but in the opposite direction - which I then go on to elaborate on in the rest of the reply, it is critical that it is not taken out of context.

As my more precise intent has been repeated time and time again in this discussion, I see it as purely provocative that this one sentence is taken out of the greater context - much like we could quote MikeB with "PS3s are crap, Xbox 360 rulez". I no longer have any count over the number of times I've said that simple games can look just fine in 1080p while complex games will in most cases suffer.

That he furthermore went on with his long list of pseudo-quotes (all of which were wrong) only exacerbated things.

Mike's post

My post.

So not only is it quotes taken out of context but also claiming that I have said things, which I know I'd never say because it's utter bull - something Mike says with the clear intent of making me look bad. Of course he doesn't bother to document it (and he can't) - nor does he apologize for his actions.

Last edited by Trezzer on 06-Apr-2007 at 02:11 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Note: I believe PGR2 actually renders in 1024x600 and is scaled by the 360's built-in scaler to whatever resolution the system is set for...

That's PGR3. And according to speculation around the web it's done because a game needs to be designed around tiling to use the free AA on the 360. Since this was a launch title and had to get out the door in time, the choice was between either running 720p with no AA or lowering the resolution slightly to get free 2xAA. I guess they tried both and found this solution to be better looking overall.

@jtsiren
Quote:

Again, the crisp (non-antialiased) and brighter image leave the RR7 on PS3 track a bit more sterile than on Xbox 360, but the additions do look better, 1080p again IMHO looks better than anti-aliased 720p and it is a matter of taste if one prefers the brighter look or not. I also played the level at 720p, to compare resolution vs. resolution, and the PS3 did look harsher and more pixellated as before.

I am sure you are right about it looking better overall, but i dont think it is something that 720p could not handle. I think the main reason for some of the stuff looking better, is due to the fact that it is a newer game than RR6.
I kinda wish Namco would release RR7 for the 360 as well.

Seems like there are other ps3 owners who are disappointed with lack of AA as well.
thread