@AmigaMac

True, with the right planning, a single piece of hardware can go both ways, but it would likely double the development time and need very careful planning to implement enough of both sides equally.

It can be done, but after all the R&D, would both sides come to the table and support it? That seems to be the question...

Quote:

AmigaMac wrote: @Cod3r Quote: And other than a shared native architecture on the original platforms, do Atari and Amiga share anything else? I doubt it, but since hardware is much harder to develop and produce than software (due to lack of money, time and expertise); I think that the Amiga and Atari communities could collaborate on a single hardware platform that could be flexible enough to serve those communities. Heck, maybe you could eventually develop APIs where Amiga and Atari applications could be easily ported between the platforms... strengthen the application pool a bit.

@asymetrix

Thanks for the welcome

I can't say much at this point, but I will say that some of the veterans of the scene are listening, and I have a feeling something great will become of it.

All it takes is for some of us to do some planning, and try to implement it. Believe me, if things go as planned with the parties involved, it will be monumental. And you won't have to wait five years to actually see something.

I'm glad you like the ideas, and I am flattered to be part of such a great community.

Regarding the chipset in GPU idea, GPU's today can be used in general computing, so anything a CPU can do, a GPU can do as well. The secrets lie in the implementation.

Quote:

asymetrix wrote: @Cod3r Welcome ! I too was waiting along time for Natami, but its taking its toll. Amiga world is a strange place, we all been through alot. Anyway, I really like your ideas alot needs to be done. I want a cheap Amiga compatible system, i want to write software for more than one Amiga system. I hope we can have a community central API repository to compare different Amigoid systems compatibility. if we all decide to use MUI GUI for example agree on an XML standard for portability. I dont care what system I develop on - i wont mind a Visual Studio cross compile to Amiga chipset/gui simulation. Amiga is a loving system, beautifully elegant - it deserves so much more. Can Amiga chipset be simulated in GPU Amiga need XMP,Java, Visual developer suite, new framworks Amiga kernal needs updating to support application execution and control via script. Amiga is an open canvas, there is not much we cannot do and hence the importance to work together.

I wonder if JAVA could help our SW base.
Most likely it's too heavy for 68k systems?

But almost every flavour (MOS,AOS4) has 68k JIT that can perform near native speeds and then there still exist real 68k systems (that are in active development even). AROS uses UAE pretty nicely.

Could 68k + modern APIs enable compile once run everywhere apps?
(beside Hollywood apps that is)

Could next gen 68k code use multicore CPUs ever?
Could next gen 68k code handle large files (like blue ray images & large video productions)?

Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Jul-2012 at 07:35 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Jul-2012 at 07:34 AM.

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@Cod3r

"I can't say much at this point, but I will say that some of the veterans of the scene are listening, and I have a feeling something great will become of it.
All it takes is for some of us to do some planning, and try to implement it. Believe me, if things go as planned with the parties involved, it will be monumental. And you won't have to wait five years to actually see something."

Interesting.

Good to see the thread turned to a bit more positive.

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@adrianbrowne

I will personal not comment Natami anymore, perhaps there will be something but nobody knows when (and partly if). I say generally when someone from the outside wants to invest in a platform (f.e. write software) it is the more risky the smaller the platform is (expecially if it is "closed source" and "commercial" and nobody knows if the support not drops in future from one day to another. We had such examples in the software area here). So only opensource can "guarantee" not support but at least existence and the chance to adapt the source yourself when necessary. I personally would never again base something on commercial "closed source" projects.

@Cod3r

there were some prototypes that are working (chipset not fully implemented)

@KimmoK

+1

a thread with hundreds of entries and not the typical bashing... strange

So, is there a way, you can help Natami to become finished?

Last edited by Birbo on 20-Jul-2012 at 11:28 AM.

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@Birbo

I personal do not think that this is possible. Thomas Hirsch wants all do himself.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 20-Jul-2012 at 11:38 AM.

@KimmoK

68k + old API’s

Yes

68k + new API’s

No because MorphOS and AmigaOS4.1 has different modern API’s, the old ones are the same but some are deprecated / and some are considered obsolete, it is however possible to detect the OS, and work around differences.

It is better if you recompile applications and put platform dependent stuff in a separate .o file.

It might also be possible to make a wrapper library that hides the differences between the operating systems, so that writing platform independent applications is easier.

Similar to having standardized API’s like SDL or AHI.

There is a 68k MorphOS program, “Aminet radio” it starts on AmigaOS4, but crashes due to modern MorphOS api’s, when you select custom GUI’s.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jul-2012 at 12:39 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jul-2012 at 12:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jul-2012 at 12:30 PM.

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@OlafS25

Is there a way to contact Thomas Hirsch for a statement about this?

Should I youse the Natami-Mail or is there an other way?

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@Birbo

It is the only official way. I do not know if he really gets the emails or if they are "moderated" but you can try. But as I said I do not think he is interested in someone else working with him (at least regarding the chipset "SAGA"). He has completely retreated from the "team" so I have no information what he is doing. I have now the opinion that in a small community anything "commercial" and/or "closed source" is no base because you always have the risk that a project drops from one day to another. In a big market mostly others take the torch (so to say) but not here. The base of everything must be open that is in my view the only chance. When a project is "closed" and based on one person what happens when this person cannot continue because of reasons or is not interested anymore. Or the project needs too long to be finished and is dropped? We all know examples from the past. Natami perhaps will (under a different name) be published but even then my basic concerns would be there.

@OlafS25

Thanks a lot.

Somehow I will contact him. I think, today it should be possible.

The only thing I want is a statement, so that everybody who was looking for the natami the last few years knows what's going on...


I mean: All the videos of natami were really promising... so I thoght, that natami was near to be finished.

I was wrong...

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@Birbo

he published now and then infos (a list) what is open and what finished. But even though there were many points signed as completed it is not possible to say how long it would still need. We wanted the information ourself (at least a estimation like "this year" or anything but that obviously was too much pressure already). So I would not expect it in near future. You can ask but do not expect a answer.

@Cod3r

Quote:

I'll tell you what, lets substitute "shameful" for "unfortunate"-That is a better word choice.

Fair enough.

Quote:

And as an AmigaOne X1000 owner, obviously, you love and stand by your purchase. If I spent my hard-earned cash on one, I would too.

It's not so much standing by a product because I spent the money on it, but rather knowing beforehand exactly what I would be getting for the money and determining that for me it had value. As an upgrader from less-capable next-gen AmigaOS systems, I got no surprises. Running the latest version of AmigaOS and my stable of new and classic Amiga software on the fastest hardware possible is what I was after. I am still sort of silly-thrilled (to coin a term) that we're talking about this stuff in 2012.

We all agree on this, though: This stuff needs to be less expensive. There's less agreement on how cheap it *CAN* be, given realities.

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@mbrantley

I understand that people have nostalgic links to AOS but I think he adresses developers and users outside the community who do not care about it

@OlafS25

Quote:

I understand that people have nostalgic links to AOS but I think he adresses developers and users outside the community who do not care about it

You're right -- they don't care. Not gonna reel those people in based on what we have to offer. More power to anybody wanting to invent something new to go after new markets. I just don't see the point in saying we're doing wrong to develop and offer stuff for folks interested in AmigaOS in a recognizable form.

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@itix

Quote:

I don’t know who made AmigaOS 2.0 but he certainly weren’t very clever.

Well I don’t think it was possible to predict in what direction it was going to take back then, what is clear that guidelines has to change as long as the operating system is progressing.

I probably apply a strict form no local addresses, and see what failed and review what possible whit etch function.

I probably end up whit system that is rally stable, but not as compatible, and possible a system that might be easier to develop applications in whit out crashing the computer.

Something like Windows2000 vs WindowsME :-b.

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@mbrantley

I don’t mind if some one make a compatible classic Amiga computer for fun of it or a company can get price down, this kind of hardware thanks to existing products that can be reprogramed and used as is, but it’s nothing revolutionary.

And if we are taking about revolutionary, one man whit an idea, can’t possible solve all the problems we are having and preserving while progressing what we call AmigaOS, whit out replacing it whit out repainted sand.

I think AmigaOS can become as good as any OS, given time and right ideas to move it forward, and then is question of resources to get it done.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jul-2012 at 03:47 PM.

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@KimmoK

When the right people get involved, many things can turn positive

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Cod3r "I can't say much at this point, but I will say that some of the veterans of the scene are listening, and I have a feeling something great will become of it. All it takes is for some of us to do some planning, and try to implement it. Believe me, if things go as planned with the parties involved, it will be monumental. And you won't have to wait five years to actually see something." Interesting. Good to see the thread turned to a bit more positive.