@Cod3r

I installed AmiKit on my laptop, D drive, I then installed OS3.9 to run it. The whole point is, OS3.9 runs much faster then on my A4000T with 060. Its a cheap way to run an amiga system on a very fast machine. Some programs don't work well with emulation, AROS tries to get around those problems, but nothing is perfect.

Never wiped a windows system, but think they install linux & run winuae on that. Maybe a more knowledgeable person can explain better then me.

Note: damn spelling...

Last edited by sundown on 22-Jul-2012 at 06:13 AM.
Last edited by sundown on 22-Jul-2012 at 06:12 AM.

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @Cod3r Quote: But i'm sure you have to have a very fast processor to have cycle accurate emulation of all those processors used in the Amiga. True, and most people would say it is dog slow. Quote: Does the original software that bangs the hardware work well on E-UAE? It's not quite that simple. E-UAE has a todo list and until I can compare some results with WINUAE, I can't say. We have an issue with interlace, for example, that may be an interrupt issue (less likely), an E-UAE issue, or even a monitor issue. I'll let those who have used E-UAE comment. Perhaps they disagree. Quote: If so, why would Natami or FPGA Arcade or Minimig or any other idea be born? Because creativity is a strong point of the community I think. Quote: Amiga users just want to have ten different systems that do the same things? I sincerely doubt the h/w people talk to each other and combine efforts, any more than the s/w people do. #6

Ok. I think I see...

Maybe the Amiga community should communicate more? I saw that an individual on Amiga.org created a site for all the community projects in one place, which I thought was a great idea-Why not list projects there? Or have a similar concept elsewhere?

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @Cod3r I installed AmiKit on my laptop, D drive, I then installed OS3.9 to run it. The whole point is, OS3.9 runs much faster then on my A4000T with 060. Its a cheap way to run an amiga system on a very fast machine. Some programs don't work well with emulation, AROS tries to get around those problems, but nothing is perfect. Never wiped a windows system, but think they install linux & run winuae on that. Maybe a more knowledgeable person can explain better then me. Note: damn spelling...

Ok, I get the concept. Thanks for the explanation.

The E-UAE emulator is hosted on Linux and through sysinit.rc or similar script the emulator is started after bootup.

@Cod3r

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Maybe the Amiga community should communicate more?

Understatement of this or any other decade.

Quote:

Why not list projects there? Or have a similar concept elsewhere?

We tried that here, but *cough*...

Welcome to the Developer Projects Forum!

#6

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @Cod3r Quote: Maybe the Amiga community should communicate more? Understatement of this or any other decade. Quote: Why not list projects there? Or have a similar concept elsewhere? We tried that here, but *cough*... Welcome to the Developer Projects Forum! #6

See, you guys should have it listed for us newbies who just sign on and don't know where to look

@Cod3r

Quote:

See, you guys should have it listed for us newbies who just sign on and don't know where to look

I'm sure the admin will take your comment under advisement.

#6

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Quote:

number6 wrote: @Cod3r Quote: Maybe the Amiga community should communicate more? Understatement of this or any other decade.

Oh there have been mountains of communications over the years.
I hear the problem has to do with big endian little endian conversions though.


Plaz

@Cod3r

I guess you can see it that way, but ColdFire chips are not running at much higher of a speed.

And that is why they are not really interesting. Sure, I'm MorphOS biased, and don't care much about hardware (chipset level) compatibility with old 68k Amigas. We have software compatibility done by JIT 68k emulator and it performs very well, probably better than real ColdFire processors.

What happened to AmigaOS being a resourceful and fast OS? 400mhz isn't enough on a platform that started with 7mhz?

There are two answers. The first is that every system evolves and you may ask similar question for almost any living OS in the world. What happened with Windows? With Linux?...

The second answer is more detailed. In fact not much happened. MorphOS, which is an unofficial, backward compatible AmigaOS derivative, can be run on 160 MHz PowerPC and 64 MB RAM. But then, not the system, but applications are resource hungry, because they perform much more complex tasks nowadays. Running a basic webbrowser on plain Amiga 500 was not a nice experience even in 1995. Now websites are so complicated and huge, that 400 MHz processor and 256 MB of RAM is a minimum. The same is for video playback, games, and so on... Displays are larger, mass storage is larger, network is faster... Applications have to deal with all this and some increase in complexity and resources usage is unavoidable.

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RastPort

@A.R.

Responding here instead of going off-topic in the AresOne news item.

Quote:

Interesting thoughts. Perhaps there should be a look towards a new specification if the PowerPC platform is unlikely to meet future requirements.

The situation in the AmigaOS arena is somewhat different.
Hyperion has always sought to be in the embedded marketplace.

Quote:

Our OS or applications do not require the massive computing power apparently required by Apple to keep up in Ghz race.

source

Management has made this statement, whilst users expectations are quite the opposite. Granted this posting was a snapshot in time from 2005, but nevertheless it expresses how they felt at that time.

And a re-iteration same year from OS4 core developer.

Quote:

Hyperion has repeatedly stated that our goal is to place OS 4 in the embedded market, namely for STB's, kiosk systems, point-of-sales and so on.

source

Skipping other such similar statements, we get a slightly different look at company direction and thought process here. Most noticeable standouts are the notion that legal implications regarding change still exist, despite the lawsuit settlement and willingness to consider ARM.

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Then there are some legal issues like some licences being tied to PPC only. All of this could be worked around however given sufficient funding. E.g. an ARM/X-Scale version of AmigaOS 4.x is perfectly possible.

source


Hope this assists you with your analysis.

@Cod3r

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Can you give me some names?

Just did.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 22-Jul-2012 at 04:07 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 22-Jul-2012 at 03:51 PM.

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@g_kraszewski

Quote:

g_kraszewski wrote: @Cod3r I guess you can see it that way, but ColdFire chips are not running at much higher of a speed. And that is why they are not really interesting. Sure, I'm MorphOS biased, and don't care much about hardware (chipset level) compatibility with old 68k Amigas. We have software compatibility done by JIT 68k emulator and it performs very well, probably better than real ColdFire processors. What happened to AmigaOS being a resourceful and fast OS? 400mhz isn't enough on a platform that started with 7mhz? There are two answers. The first is that every system evolves and you may ask similar question for almost any living OS in the world. What happened with Windows? With Linux?... The second answer is more detailed. In fact not much happened. MorphOS, which is an unofficial, backward compatible AmigaOS derivative, can be run on 160 MHz PowerPC and 64 MB RAM. But then, not the system, but applications are resource hungry, because they perform much more complex tasks nowadays. Running a basic webbrowser on plain Amiga 500 was not a nice experience even in 1995. Now websites are so complicated and huge, that 400 MHz processor and 256 MB of RAM is a minimum. The same is for video playback, games, and so on... Displays are larger, mass storage is larger, network is faster... Applications have to deal with all this and some increase in complexity and resources usage is unavoidable.

Ok, I won't dispute the first point you made but on the second point I must disagree.

Sure, change and higher system requirements are a part of progression, but the bottom line components for Linux (kernel, shell, scripting languages) can work on the original specification of i386, including a GUI.

What happened to the prospect of AmigaOS being able to do that? A more modular design would seem to be wise, along with support for the original official machines, in one way or another.

Windows, hahahaha... I won't even answer that, except to say that even Windows 7 added more features with a smaller footprint. I'm not talking about official specs (of course, they want you to believe that you can't run it on your old machine), but i'm talking about real world specs. Win 7 is faster than Vista and almost equal to XP SP3 on the same hardware. Not so here...

Open source... hmm, Haiku OS is a 64mb ISO, min system requirement of a Pentium I and can run on old machines but also works well on new ones. And it flies, and can surf the web and play video, almost anything you throw at it. Not to mention it is FREE and OPEN and has SMP.

Why can't a commercial OS as AmigaOS or MorphOS at least compete with that? They do have SOME money to actually pay developers and further the platform and they have new official machines built especially for the OS (AmigaOS).

@number6

Thanks for the information and pointers to who is what. I am in no position to talk to these companies about what they are doing or want to do.

I can only work with what I have on my own with advice from the community.

@number6

You are welcome. No need to apologize to me, for you have done no wrong.

@NutsAboutAmiga

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NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @A.R. Well Motorola has a big legacy, it was a shame it was sold to Symbol.

Yes, so I've heard. I was long gone before then, as I worked for there in the 1990's. In the corporate world, these things are quite common. It all comes down to making the proper decisions by the acquiring entity, with a view towards continuity.

@Franko

Quote:

Franko wrote: @A.R. Quote: A.R. wrote: @All Amigans, I truly understand you. In the beginning, I was a Commie Welcome to Amigaland A.R., you've probably noticed already that there is still life in the old machine from the various views and opinions posted here and will be for many years to come... Other computers come and go but the Amiga always was something just that wee bit special and will probably outlive us all... PS: Good job this aint the Hoover era as being a "Commie" could have got you into a lot of bother, Hmmm... mind you being an Amigan in this day and age still can...

Thank you, Franko, for the welcome. The Amiga platform appears to be quite vibrant, even to this very day. Personally, I have never owned an Amiga machine machine, but I have many friends who did. My first computer was a Commodore 64 with a Commodore cassette drive. Piece by piece, I recall fondly of all of the peripherals I added to the system over the years.

I can truly relate to Amiga users, as we both have a shared history of sadness and disappointment. Particularly with the fall of the Commodore company in early 1990's.

I also recall the years of bulletin board systems before the popularity of what is today known as the World Wide Web. Ah, the dark ages of computing.

@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote: @ A.R. Welcome aboard. You'll certainly find many Motorola fans here. It's part of the reason a path to coldfire was sought so hard over x86 choices and PPC remains prominent. I wish you and Cod3r success in any attempt to further Amiga products or possibly bring momentum to existing projects. Here's hoping. Plaz

Thank you, Plaz, for the welcome. I sometimes wish I could go back to recall some of the things I saw in use at the Motorola facilities. Some would probably be quite surprised of some of the things that were made and put into service within the company. For example, few know that Motorola made IA-32 based computer systems, even while production of ColdFire and PowerPC processors was in full swing. Motorola had so many departments and teams who often had little to do with one another. The facility at which I spent most of my time was a sprawling complex. It was similar to a small city in its layout.

Thank you for the wishes of success, but I must state that I have no intentions of working on Amiga products at all. I am here just to enjoy the vivid and heartfelt debates between the members of the community.

@Cod3r

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They do have SOME money to actually pay developers and further the platform and they have new official machines built especially for the OS (AmigaOS).

As I indicated earlier, during and after the lawsuit, many people left.
I think they became resigned to the fact the community would essentially be for developers and a small group of fans, until such time as they felt the OS would be ready for primetime, so to speak. The choice of a more powerful but expensive computer not geared towards entry level also speaks to that desire from developers as well.

In short, the thrust has not been on marketing for these reasons, imo.

#6

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: As I indicated earlier, during and after the lawsuit, many people left. I think they became resigned to the fact the community would essentially be for developers and a small group of fans, until such time as they felt the OS would be ready for primetime, so to speak. The choice of a more powerful but expensive computer not geared towards entry level also speaks to that desire from developers as well. In short, the thrust has not been on marketing for these reasons, imo. #6

Cant agree with you on that point of view, to me it's simply nothing more than a greedy bunch of gits who thought they could make a quick buck off the Amiga & Commodore names and it back fired badly on them...

Imagine for a moment if you compared Amiga development to that of the development of medicine, We would have had the invention of Apsrin (The Amiga) followed by the invention of soluble Asprin (The NG side of things) and nothing else, things like Penicillin/ antibiotics, while they do sound like a jolly good idea and have very good possibilties, well we just can't agree on what colour to make them or what to actually call them so lets just argue about them from now till doomsday instead...

Thank gawd, we don't rely on Amiga companies or Amiga developers to market or develop medicines or we'd all be up a very brown coloured creek with nothing to row with...

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@A.R.

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I am here just to enjoy the vivid and heartfelt debates between the members of the community.

Thats a good enough reason to hang around on the Amiga World.

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @Cod3r Quote: They do have SOME money to actually pay developers and further the platform and they have new official machines built especially for the OS (AmigaOS). As I indicated earlier, during and after the lawsuit, many people left. I think they became resigned to the fact the community would essentially be for developers and a small group of fans, until such time as they felt the OS would be ready for primetime, so to speak. The choice of a more powerful but expensive computer not geared towards entry level also speaks to that desire from developers as well. In short, the thrust has not been on marketing for these reasons, imo. #6

Oh ok, I get it now. Oh well, what can we do???

@Cod3r

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Oh ok, I get it now. Oh well, what can we do???

As you surely noted from my prior links. It's about funding.
Mind you as a hobby the same constraints don't apply as in other businesses.

Nevertheless, from your standpoint of growth into something more than what we have today and given what information we have offered you in good faith:

any ideas?

#6

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