@Tomas

Quote:

According to the gamespot reviews, the ps3 version suffers from frame rate problems in 1080p and a bit more jaggies than RR6.

Yes, I would have to agree with this. There are some framerate issues at 1080p and at 720p the PS3 version is far more jagged than the Xbox 360 version. I think, if you quote the review correctly, that part of it at least is accurate according to my experience.

Why no anti-aliasing is one major question for me. At least on 720p it would be very much needed.

@MikeB

Quote:

Claims of worse graphics and performance, serious bugs and such.

There are some graphics glitches at least at 1080p, as I noted in my earlier posting about the demo. I haven't seen the same bugs on Xbox 360 at least not yet, I will let you know if I do. I also have to agree with the notion that there are framerate issues at 1080p on PS3 and that graphics at 720p on PS3 are worse due to no anti-aliasing (I could actually live with the cars without anti-aliasing at 720p, but the scenery pixellates too much - luckily there is 1080p for me which has some wow factor).

I don't think RR7, from my experience so far, is inferior to RR6 as a game. I think there certainly are improvements. But as an engine demo or a showcase for PS3, there are also reasons to find some aspects of RR6 better as people have done.

As much as I like RR7 and spent my 60 euros on it, I can't just go out and say the negative things about it listed in the quote above or the GameSpot review quoted in this thread are wrong, because clearly they are not. I'm sure there have been real cheapshots, probably fueled by both fandom and the fact that some things are worse on PS3, but those you specified aren't them, at least not entirely.

Again, just to make it clear: because of 1080p, and because I can run it there, I still feel RR7 is better for me (I also think that further track developments are nice too, it is a later game after all than RR6 so I feel like getting more bang for the buck).

Last edited by jtsiren on 02-Apr-2007 at 06:38 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 02-Apr-2007 at 06:32 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 02-Apr-2007 at 06:31 AM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

And I can't imagine anyone wanting to do business with you, so I suppose that makes us even. I do, however, write for one of the most thorough and non-compromising sites in Denmark, and regardless of what you think, I have absolutely no doubts about the quality of my reviews - and according to our feedback functionality, nor do the readers.

You honestly think you can judge my social and professional skills from the message board fights? I think if AmigaOS4 is dear to you, maybe you should worry more with regard to the Amiga community being a hard sell to the bigger players, due to what may seem to them as self-destructive attitudes and a lack of tolerance. (IMO the community always was Amiga's strongest asset)

Last edited by MikeB on 02-Apr-2007 at 09:03 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 02-Apr-2007 at 08:36 AM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

luckily there is 1080p for me which has some wow factor

Quote:

I still feel RR7 is better for me (I also think that further track developments are nice too

This I gathered from many people owing both versions, fans of the series and wanted to point this out. That's why I stated to take the comparison article with a grain of salt.

@MikeB

Quote:

This I gathered from many people owing both versions, fans of the series and wanted to point this out. That's why I stated to take the comparison article with a grain of salt.

... ignoring the rest of the message as usual...

_________________

@MikeB

Quote:

You honestly think you can judge my social and professional skills from the message board fights? I think if AmigaOS4 is dear to you, maybe you should worry more with regard to the Amiga community being a hard sell to the bigger players, due to what may seem to them as self-destructive attitudes and a lack of tolerance. (IMO the community always was Amiga's strongest asset)

You honestly think you can judge HIS social and professional skills from the message board fights? His message was obvious sarcasm, in response to your post.

_________________

Good news with regard to PS3 sales, European sales are now roughly on par with total Japanese sales. For Spain sales are nearing XBox 360 total sales of 2005 and 2006 combined.

With regard to electricity and Folding at home worries it has been calculated if you have your PS3 contributing 24/7 working on Folding @ Home's intense calculations, if you live in Vancouver this would add less than 8 dollars on your monthly bills, but be sure to turn off your TV as some of the bigger displays consumes mulitple times as much electricity.

@AMiGR

In addition to the endless second opinion quotes from reviews and users owning both versions, here's another quote from brand new Australian review (theage.com.au) posted today:

"The lightning-fast, turbo-fuelled racing and snappy Arcade presentation are as good as they've ever been.

Crisp, vivid graphics and a foot-tapping techno soundtrack also help to make this PS3 debut the most polished game in the series."

Why not give it a rest? I value anyone's opinion who actually played both versions, so I value jtsiren's perspectives on this matter and don't have to reply to every simply word he stated.

@AMiGR

Quote:

You honestly think you can judge HIS social and professional skills from the message board fights? His message was obvious sarcasm, in response to your post.

I am really surprized Trezzer isn't that interested in doing more research considering his involvement in the PS3 threads. Personally due to Trezzer's comments I got interested in doing more XBox 360 research myself. I think curiosity to do research (in-depth knowledge) and open-mindedness towards products you haven't used yourself, are very important traits for any product reviewer.

@MikeB

Quote:

This I gathered from many people owing both versions, fans of the series and wanted to point this out. That's why I stated to take the comparison article with a grain of salt.

Do you have a link to that RR comparison article? I'd like to check any statemens made there against the games I have.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think curiosity to do research (in-depth knowledge) and open-mindedness towards products you haven't used yourself, are very important traits for any product reviewer.

Possible. But to be fair, Trezzer is not reviewing PS3 here. If he were, and would post something outrageous, that would tell something of him as a reviewer. For me, I think the main thing he has brought into these discussion is knowledge about console games in general (if not specifically about PS3) from Xboxes, PS2 etc. probably much more so than anyone else here.

Speaking of open, you certainly are open to any good news about PS3 you can find and post.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: @Tomas There's one word that describes NFS Carbon: "blows". I think the same about Most Wanted although some people enjoyed that for reasons I fail to comprehend.

I actually have both Carbon and Most Wanted on my PC and I must say that they are extremely enjoyable games to play. Sure, the handling of the cars is full arcade, but they are still good, no brainer games, especially with FFB steering wheels.

Edit: If people want to compare the PS3 and the Xbox 360, compare Oblivion. Apparently the expansion, which is available for the Xbox 360 improves the graphics engine to be on par with the PS3 release of the pre expansion Oblivion, which had almost a year extra for improvements.

That said, ####ing contests get old quick.

Last edited by KrasH on 02-Apr-2007 at 12:13 PM.

_________________
Amiga 4000 CSPPC [retired]
Intel i7 3930K @ 4.3Ghz / Corsair H100 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 16 GB / 2 x 240GB Corsair Force GT SSD / 2 x EVGA 2GB 680GTX SC Sig / 3 x Benq XL2420T
27" iMac / i7 @ 3.4 / 680mx / 3TB Fusion / 32GB RAM

@KrasH

Yeah, it's very possible the PC versions are ok, but the console versions aren't. Sadly. That Carbon actually generally scored in the 80s percentage realm is quite simply scandalous. I can only think of one reason and it isn't pretty.

@Trezzer

On my setup it runs at about 45fps or so at 1600x1200 with full everything. It does stutter to as low as 25fps on the odd race for a split second, but very rarely. I'm thinking the CPU being the bottleneck of my system is to blame :)

_________________
Amiga 4000 CSPPC [retired]
Intel i7 3930K @ 4.3Ghz / Corsair H100 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 16 GB / 2 x 240GB Corsair Force GT SSD / 2 x EVGA 2GB 680GTX SC Sig / 3 x Benq XL2420T
27" iMac / i7 @ 3.4 / 680mx / 3TB Fusion / 32GB RAM

@jtsiren

Quote:

Do you have a link to that RR comparison article? I'd like to check any statemens made there against the games I have.

The article was in Spanish and sadly only contained pictures of the display regarding one track only where water textures and some details gone missing, this weak comparison was covered all along the internet combined with claims the XBox 360 version is better, here at AmigaWorld the comparison was used to back up claims that 1080p gaming would not be such a good idea as there would be less details (but overall they added quite a few details in the PS3 version).



The XBox 360 pictures for some reason looked much sharper:


Later 2 other shots were added which look a bit more representative, in which reflective water / mirros, sharper textures, more polygons, brighter lighting (if you prefer) and other improvements were IMO pretty noticeable:

PS3:


XBox 360:


I got slammed here at AmigaWorld for stating that in the above pictures IMO the PS3 version looked better, but overall thought it was a weak comparison of the game as a whole as some tracks got more rework than others and the new ones look better than the old ones.

Last edited by MikeB on 02-Apr-2007 at 12:25 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

but be sure to turn off your TV as some of the bigger displays consumes mulitple times as much electricity.

"Our 40 light bulb solution hardly requires any electricity compared to others' 160 light bulb solutions". I suppose that's one way to spin it. Well, except in this case it's more like 4-6 old-fashioned light bulbs or so.

At least in this case something good can potentially come of it. For those interested, there are talks about bringing Rosetta@Home to Xbox 360.

@KrasH

Quote:

If people want to compare the PS3 and the Xbox 360, compare Oblivion

Yeah. It's certainly an improvement.

It's somewhat sad to put so much effort into discussing games, where we're really not comparing apples with apples. I guess we need another six months or so before it's more or less fair to compare the performance of the two judged from the standpoint that they are more or less equals. Obviously we can easily conclude that it's not the leap-ahead monster people thought it would be - that much is obvious from comparing simultaneously released games that have either been about the same or slightly worse on PS3. That is also what piqued my interest in the first place - the apparent severe misrepresentation of the PS3 as somehow much more powerful in real life.

I suppose that's why we're here clutching at straws for little improvements in titles that are not identical on the platforms (e.g. sequels).

Last edited by Trezzer on 02-Apr-2007 at 12:23 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It's somewhat sad to put so much effort into discussing games, where we're really not comparing apples with apples. I guess we need another six months or so before it's more or less fair to compare the performance of the two judged from the standpoint that they are more or less equals. Obviously we've seen that it's not the leap-ahead monster people thought it would be - that much is obvious from comparing simultaneously released games that have either been about the same or slightly worse on PS3.

Yes, I certainly acknowledge that I am comparing Ridge Racer 6 with *7*. The PS3 version, while not a vastly different game, is a later edition and thus subject to all kinds of improvements which could for all we know run equally on Xbox 360.

Quote:

Obviously we can easily conclude that it's not the leap-ahead monster people thought it would be - that much is obvious from comparing simultaneously released games that have either been about the same or slightly worse on PS3.

Agreed. That was my perception immediately pre-PS3 launch and it continues to be my perception. There are areas where PS3 has more polish (and some where less like the controller), but the games themselves I don't think are anything Xbox 360 couldn't handle as well. In the future we'll see how this evolves.

I was and continue to be surprised how capable Xbox 360 is having still come out so early.

Last edited by jtsiren on 02-Apr-2007 at 12:32 PM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

Speaking of open, you certainly are open to any good news about PS3 you can find and post.

Actually I have criticized some early PS3 games for not being on par with the XBox 360 version. To me it seems they were rushed out to meet the launch deadline.

I also criticized Sony for some IMO lame PR "efforts" in the past. I find nothing wrong with positive PS3 news though. Trezzer on the other hand mainly posts any negative coverage he can find, yet received by far less criticism from you than I have.

With regard to Oblivion, he pointed out that Oblivion would have worse loading times to which I replied that IMO this wasn't needed to be so and criticized the game developers if this will be the case. Luckily one thing which has improved a lot with regard to the PS3 version of Oblivion are that loading times both in terms of length and frequency has been reduced significantly. So the game appears to be a quality port, I never expected wonders from cross platform PS3/XBox 360 ports.

Last edited by MikeB on 02-Apr-2007 at 12:39 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

mainly posts any negative coverage he can find

Actually I skip most of it and only post the interesting bits. If I were to post all the negative stuff I could find on PS3 the thread would have as many negative posts from me as overly positive posts from you.

As for Oblivion - you're currently comparing with the outdated version. The new version is likely to be about the same - even though the data redundancy, they were forced to put into the PS3 version, might speed up seek times here and there.

Quote:

I find nothing wrong with positive PS3 news though

Nor do you show any critical sense as long as the word "PS3" is involved. That's when you accept anything as fact whereas good news about 360 is obviously misinformation.

Last edited by Trezzer on 02-Apr-2007 at 12:44 PM.