Another thing I was thinking about : Why having 2 Amiga like os on the efika? They have (perhaps) MOS on the efika and could promote it as Amiga compatible next gen os. This should have good chances as there's no os4 hardware at the moment .

Having 2 of them, doing more or less the same ... don't understand this logic. Perhaps somebody can explain me what's the sense behind this.

BobW wrote:
@Darrin

Quote:

I don't pretend to understand what goes on inside BBRV's heads. Do they want OS4 on their hardware or do they just enjoy making things difficult for Amiga Inc? This is not the first time he/she has shown up here claiming that everything is great and we will have a solution soon.

LOL. Neither do I except the fact that he's still here in this market and trying to do business shows that he has a hell of a lot of enthusiasm for his product and that he thinks there is a profit to be made somewhere. The reason I originally posted was to cut through his version of "on track, and rocking!" and to give the whole situation a reality check. I don't want to see people rushing out to buy an Efika only to run Linux for the next 5 years.

Quote:

Another thing to consider is the involvement of lawyers. Any time you involve lawyers and the legal system things take LONGER to happen.

I absolutely agree 100%. Any agreement really needs to be made over a business table and not via lawyers in court. Even if Bill's lawyers win (as they apparently have once) then it's no guarantee of cooperation and will probably produce the reverse effect. That said, it's hard to believe that a deal hasn't been reached. It frustrates the hell out of me.

Quote:

Really I don't think he cares about OS4. If he can get a few people to buy EFIKA by spreading this crap then he wins. If he somehow gets his hands on OS4 then thats just a bonus.

I don't think he could manage to sell more than a couple of units that way and then he'd certainly undermine any credibility with regards to future products. While I agree that he probably doesn't want OS4 to run on his personal desktop, I'm sure that from a business point of view he sees it as a valuable asset. The good think about successful business men is there care about their assets so regardless of his "user" enthusiasm for OS4, you can be sure that he'll market it to the best of his ability if he gets to sell it, and that would be good for us as the end users.

Quote:

Having said all that I'm not against OS4 running on the EFIKA. I would just rather see it handled in a professional manner. Show me OS4 running on an EFIKA and then I'll buy one.

I'm with you all the way.

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AmigaOne X1000, A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, A500, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, CBM4032, Efika, Ultimate64

@Naz

It's quite easy from the hw selling point of view. The more OSes work on the hw, the more customers.
Anyway, the Efika itself is sold 'as it' w/o any EULA, it's entirely up to the customer what bits and bytes he puts on the board.

Anyway MOS support for that board is granted already, thus I do not see whether the investment (time, hassle, money) will benefit accordingly in extra sales. But that's up to BBRV - but I instead of them wouldn't invest (read time, hassle, money) too much into the OS4 effort. I just doubt it is worth it (from a commercial POV).

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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

Quote:

Naz wrote: Another thing I was thinking about : Why having 2 Amiga like os on the efika? They have (perhaps) MOS on the efika and could promote it as Amiga compatible next gen os. This should have good chances as there's no os4 hardware at the moment . Having 2 of them, doing more or less the same ... don't understand this logic. Perhaps somebody can explain me what's the sense behind this.

It makes sense from a business point of view as it allows you to market the marchine to the widest audience: The Reds, the Blues and Linux users. The more units sold then the less money it can be sold for to make it viable (thanks to larger production runs) which in turn makes it more attractive to casual or new users.

The user will also have access to a system than can run OS4 and MorphOS software and thus has more choices when purchasing applications. Plus, should either OS4 or MorphOS crash and die, then there is always another OS to fall back on.

Personally, I'm only interested in OS4, but I certaily wouldn't mind the oportunity to poke around in MorphOS and have the occasional game of Birdie Shoot.

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@Zylesea

OK. I understand and agree to what you say. Just was thinking in another way. As far as I remember the whole story, it was MOS and bplan and Hyperion and Eytech that were in competion who will be first to come on the market with a next gen Amiga style os. Bearing this in mind I believe that it is logic to push my product to get my share in the market. But anyway, I think you're right saying that they will sell some more boards if there are more options. We will see. Anyway, I never saw real sales figures, not of Amiga One neither of Pegasos, and neither of all the Amiga Anywhere titles what should be interesting to have a cleare picture. Time will tell.

@bbrv
Quote:

We never said that. Post a link here if you can.

Here you go: http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/98063.shtml

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ExecSG Team Lead

@Darrin

Quote:

I won't quite go THAT far

True that I'm obviously exaggerating, but what I mean to say is that OS4 on a cheap PPC board like the Efika is exactly what I want.

MorphOS on the Efika is 99% of what I want, but if I get OS4 on the Efika I will personally make an animated .gif of me doing the banana dance, and I will post it here for all to see.

Come on guys, it's got to be worth that!

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Gleng wrote:
@Darrin

Quote:

if I get OS4 on the Efika I will personally make an animated .gif of me doing the banana dance, and I will post it here for all to see.!

If that happens then you wont be alone and we can probably make up a whole chorus line of AW members dressed in banana suits, dancing across a stage singing "I love pancakes!".

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AmigaOne X1000, A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, A500, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, CBM4032, Efika, Ultimate64

@bbrv

Quote:

@AmigaHeretic That reminds me of why we usually ignore your posts. We never said that. Post a link here if you can.

That was quite rude. If I post a link will you appologize?

Now normally I would tell you to go to google.com and type in "bbrv owns amigaos4", but I'll do it for you today


OK, then here you go...


BBRV post about owning AmigaOS4



and I quote

"We can sublicense Hyperion for less than they have agreed to pay -- that is, if we can all get along. "

I like this part....

"As the license is validated under US law Hyperion will not have any recourse unless Amiga Inc. gets our written consent, which will not happen. "

and this looks like more of what I said...

"However, we will sublicense (as we can under the Agreement) Hyperion for less than they would have paid Amiga and the customer/community will benefit from lower prices."


And, read this part
"In the meanwhile, we will publish OPA and life can go on for all concerned. It will be quite easy to port OS 4.0 then and 4.2 will come now even sooner with OPA. "

That sounds like your all set with your "new OS".



Anyway BBRV I'm surprised you don't remeber that. There we several threads over at Ann.lu about it and it looks like you posted in quite a few.

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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@Darrin

Quote:

Let me also add my disbelief in Hyperion/Amiga inc not grabbing the opportunity to grab the Efika by the horns and to release a package on which they can actually MAKE SOME MONEY!!!

Make money how exactly?

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

I really hoped to see something out of Amiwest. I was looking forward to buying a new amiga for Christmas.

Now I see Efika and wonder why Amiga Inc did not put anything together with this board for a Christmas release.

I thought most companies want to make money? Bill came out of the closet and talked to many groups and has since been silent. He made mention that he would not do this again.

After Amiwest, I got tired of waiting for another amiga. I bought OS X and love it. I feel that this is what an Amiga 5000 or 6000 would have been. It seems like a logical progression.

I still want to see an Amiga packaged with an OS. I am beginning to doubt this though. Where else do we see an OS being developed without any hardware and hardware being developed without any OS for it? Yet here we have an OS and hardware that makes sense together and Amiga can't act?

Is it just me or does it seem that the Amiga when faced with sucess always seems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

*I shake my head*

I really hope that OS 4.0 can be made available on Efika....

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@bbrv
Quote:

Amiga Inc. has behave fraudulently. End of story. They signed an Agreement they modified over time in their mind, but not on paper. No amount of corporate shell games will prevent the enforcement of the Agreement.

Wow. Interesting to see what happened to the we-received-an-email-from-Fleecy stuff with happy faces and everything.

An interesting flip-flop to be sure but I wonder what motivated the decision. Is this a sign that Genesi is having serious trouble selling this product in any sort of volume? I'm wondering what ever happend to the "An Efika license was granted for more than 50.000 units to ODM Technologies..." from Genesi HMC?

I mean, if Genesi is selling 50k units why are they bothering with Amiga Inc?

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ExecSG Team Lead

@saimo

Quote:

saimo Your behaviour, on the other hand, is so honest and clear. You are here again trying to make the Amiga crowd believe that AOS4 is (part of) AmigaDE: AOS4 (for now) has nothing to do with the AmigaDE.

I quite agree with you.

I don't know what's in the orginal papers but it always sounded to me like these were a couple of the basics.

1. Amiga Inc, was suppose to port AmigaDE to ONE specific board ( think it was handheld thing, but not sure) .

2. Amiga Inc. provided the software and Genesi paid for each copy. Much like an OEM or if you just built computers yourself. You go down to the store and buy a copy of Windows for each computer you sell.


I think we can all agree that if someone started making threir own computers and got an OEM license from Microsoft, well if Microsoft decided not to ever ship copies of Windows for whatever reason to the guy (maybe they heard the guy was slandering MS or something) that the guy could not sue Microsoft in court and then OWN Microsoft Windows or at least have full access to the source code to do what he wants. I mean this is just rediculous. He would only be entitled to whatever amount of copies he paid for.

Did Genesi ever pay for copies of AmigaDE? Or did they pay upfront for the source code of something? What I always thought was Amiga Inc. never delivered the software, but Genesi never actually bought Amiga DE anyway.


On top of all this, BBRV could have spent all the time and money porting an app to MorphOS, like say FireFox, to include with EFIKA or whatever hardware and he would at least be closer to having a complete solution. Motherboard, OS, and Modern internet capabilities. Now all his has is a Motherboard. Maybe a morphOS port, but MorphOS is not of any real use for modern internet use (just like AOS4 isn't) at least not up to the level a company that would buy a bunch of Efikas would want.


What does AmigaDE (doesn't exists anyway, but AmigaAnywhere basically) offer BBRV? How can that add ANY value to EFIKA?

CLUE: ( and I won't make you link to a BLOG!)

IT ADDS NO VALUE!

BBRV Just wants the AMIGA brand name (which many people have called us zelots about). That's what he always wanted and wasted so much money and time trying to get.

Soooo much wasted resources.

And still, MORE court battles Sigh......

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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@Darrin

Quote:

Thanks for the reply, but it unfortunately seems that even though you WANT OS4, (possibly) have the rights to OS4 and have the ideal hardware to RUN OS4, that you still have no OS4.

Yes, obviously they will not get anywhere without the approval of "the OS4 Team". If that team would be "hostile" towards the idea, they will not get anywhere in practice, even if they have a crystal clear case in the Amiga Inc issue. Of course BBRV knows this, it's a prerequisite.

I guess they wouldn't bother if they thought it wouldn't be doable?

Quote:

You also have a long uphill battle to get OS4 ported and packaged.

I don't think it necessarily needs to be an uphill battle at all. I actually don't think the OS4 Team are that hostile towards Genesi/Bplan. The Friedens has assured many times that they have no problem with supporting the Pegasos, and I don't think they would object to the Efika either, rather the opposite perhaps. I'm sure they all are pretty tired of the current locked-down situation.

And technically speaking, porting the OS4 to the Genesi HAL/OF could be done in a few days, a week tops. This according to one of the Friedens (can't remember who). And according to BBRV, it has already been done, and OS4 inofficially runs on the Pegasos today (and has been doing that for a very long time). I don't think that is unbelievable in any way. In fact, I find it more difficult to imagine that *no-one* in the OS4 Team has done this, out of pure curiosity if for no other reason.

The only obstacle I see is Amiga Inc. And if there is a way around that obstacle, then I wouldn't mind to try it. It would be a good thing for everyone involved, and the whole community.

Quote:

ssolie wrote: Wow. Interesting to see what happened to the we-received-an-email-from-Fleecy stuff with happy faces and everything.

Obviously negociations ran into a brick wall.

Quote:

An interesting flip-flop to be sure but I wonder what motivated the decision. Is this a sign that Genesi is having serious trouble selling this product in any sort of volume? I'm wondering what ever happend to the "An Efika license was granted for more than 50.000 units to ODM Technologies..." from Genesi HMC? I mean, if Genesi is selling 50k units why are they bothering with Amiga Inc?

Perhaps because any business worth it's salt that sells 50,000 units will look at it's books and say "Now what do we have to do to sell 60,000 units?".

This is probably why Gensei are still here and Eyetech are not.

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AmigaOne X1000, A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, A500, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, CBM4032, Efika, Ultimate64

@ssolie

Quote:

I mean, if Genesi is selling 50k units why are they bothering with Amiga Inc?

Exactly, what could AmigaDE possible offer them?


A port of JAVA would give them easily a 10,000 times more functionality than AmigaDE at this point.

They either want the Amiga name, AmigaOS4, or maybe they just want to own Amiga like many of us have probably dreamed of. Rename Genesi to Amiga Inc., when they are done.

It's so strange, on one hand BBRV seem like serious business people, but on the other they play so many games and waste so much time and money going after a resource that offers little to know value. Not how a succesful company is run.

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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

Yes, obviously they will not get anywhere without the approval of "the OS4 Team". If that team would be "hostile" towards the idea, they will not get anywhere in practice, even if they have a crystal clear case in the Amiga Inc issue. Of course BBRV knows this, it's a prerequisite. I guess they wouldn't bother if they thought it wouldn't be doable?

I hope you're right. I mean, a BBRV/OS4 Team alliance makes sound business sense, but there is a lot of bad blood circulating. I hope that common sense will allow all sides to come together and find the middle ground and then push forward as one.

Quote:

I don't think it necessarily needs to be an uphill battle at all. I actually don't think the OS4 Team are that hostile towards Genesi/Bplan. The Friedens has assured many times that they have no problem with supporting the Pegasos, and I don't think they would object to the Efika either, rather the opposite perhaps. I'm sure they all are pretty tired of the current locked-down situation.

I hope you're right. They deserve to see their work released and they deserve to reap some sort of financial reward after all of this hard work.

Quote:

And technically speaking, porting the OS4 to the Genesi HAL/OF could be done in a few days, a week tops. This according to one of the Friedens (can't remember who). And according to BBRV, it has already been done, and OS4 inofficially runs on the Pegasos today (and has been doing that for a very long time). I don't think that is unbelievable in any way. In fact, I find it more difficult to imagine that *no-one* in the OS4 Team has done this, out of pure curiosity if for no other reason.

I have visions of members of the OS4 Team secretly developing the final release on Pegasos2 machines due while broken AmigaOne mobos gather dust next to them.

Seriously, you're probably right. You'd think they would want to at least evaluate the performance of OS4 on the Pegasos and experiement with porting to a different motherboard.

Quote:

The only obstacle I see is Amiga Inc. And if there is a way around that obstacle, then I wouldn't mind to try it. It would be a good thing for everyone involved, and the whole community.

Agreed.

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@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

BBRV post about owning AmigaOS4 and I quote "We can sublicense Hyperion for less than they have agreed to pay -- that is, if we can all get along. " I like this part.... "As the license is validated under US law Hyperion will not have any recourse unless Amiga Inc. gets our written consent, which will not happen. " and this looks like more of what I said... "However, we will sublicense (as we can under the Agreement) Hyperion for less than they would have paid Amiga and the customer/community will benefit from lower prices." And, read this part "In the meanwhile, we will publish OPA and life can go on for all concerned. It will be quite easy to port OS 4.0 then and 4.2 will come now even sooner with OPA. " That sounds like your all set with your "new OS".

I have to say that I don't see Bill claiming to "own" OS4 anywhere in there. Rather, I see him claim that he has a legally binding license which a judge has agreed includes the rights to OS4.

He goes on to say that he intends to enforce this court order.

I'm no legal expert, but it seems that he doesn't need to take Amiga Inc to court again to fight for the right to use OS4 as that has already been won. It looks like he intends to go back to court to ensure that the court order is followed. I assume that Amiga Inc have not tried to appeal the original decision, so I wonder how much trouble the could be in if the judge decides to make an example of them.

Again, I'm sure we all hope that it doesn't come to that and Amiga Inc just cooperate with the licensing terms.

The attempts to move the assets of Amiga to KMOS on onwards does start to look rather dodgy considering the judgement.

Last edited by Darrin on 12-Dec-2006 at 04:53 PM.

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AmigaOne X1000, A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, A500, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, CBM4032, Efika, Ultimate64

@ssolie

Quote:

"An Efika license was granted for more than 50.000 units to ODM Technologies..." from Genesi HMC? I mean, if Genesi is selling 50k units why are they bothering with Amiga Inc?

I think the 50,000 units might be something like the 5000 Pegasos Settop boxes that BBRV said they sold....

Imaginary



ps. Oh and before BBRV asks for a "link" for proof 5000 STBs

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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@BobW

Quote:

I see this as nothing more than an advertisement for the EFIKA.

Only in your head dude, only in your head.

Quote:

All your trying to do is get more people to buy your board based on the POSSIBILITY that someday OS4 might run on it.

Laughable. Outright laughable!

First of all, everyone on this site (and all other community sites) knows perfectly well the situation; they *know* that OS4 *is not* available for the Efika, and they *know* that seeing is believing, and before anyone can see OS4 running on the hardware (Efika, SAM, Troika, ACK, whatever) they won't buy that hardware, if OS4 is all they want. Everyone is grown up here, right? Please do not insult peoples intelligence by making such ridiculous comments.

Secondly, I think you are extremely naive if you think that a few hundred sales to this community is their ultimate goal. Or that it would make *any difference whatsoever* to them for that matter. A few hundred sales (or a few thousands even) wouldn't even recover the time, effort and money they spent to get the damn thing out of the door. That is *not* why they are doing this.

It is all about people, all about *community*. They are here to *support* the community! It's all about creating momentum for a unique platform. About supporting creativity and developers.

Why on earth do you think they have provided for more than *two hundred* developers to get *free* Efikas? To make money? No, no, the income from a few hundred boards is worthless, but two hundred creative souls are *not*! It's about having fun, it's about creating, and building a future for everyone that wants to participate.

The Amiga community (which of course includes MorphOS and AROS) has been welcomed from day one, but as soon as anyone mentions Genesi's developer sponsorship programs (that is by no way limited to the Efika hardware), then there is always some loonie that starts screaming "advertising, ADVERTISING!! Hello Moderators! Some evil dude wants to sell something evil here! Come on and interfere, or we will go off creating a new site!".

Quote:

I think it's disgusting. Just another example of a company screwing the Amiga community.

Oh yes, this and this is indeed pure evil and very solid examples of an evil company that only wants to screw a community over!

*SIGH!*

Some people never stops to amaze me!