Does the A1 come with an easily installable X11 environment? Every new Mac does?and an SDK to boot?and that opens up an awful lot of open source, free software like DTP, WP, audio mixing/editing software, games, etc. Oh, and every Mac comes with video editing software as well. How much of that does the A1 have?

For someone like me, who is not made of money, who does have something against needlessly?yes, needlessly?piling up debt, the fact that the Mac Mini is faster, cheaper, and has more software availability (much of it free) does make a major difference, like it or not. Like it or not, given this new information, if I had to buy a computer in the next two weeks, and I only had the money for one computer, it would not be an A1. I love Amiga, and I wish I had an A1, but facts are facts.

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@Bean

Congrats on making 500 posts

@Cyberstorm

Quote:

Not as cheap as it first appeard.

Seems alright to me in rip-off Britain. I was expecting £350 up to £399. Mind you the time I put in all the extras I'm getting over £550. For some reason I was hoping to use my PS2 keyboard and mouse (doh!).

@Thread

I love the case. It is simplistic, elegant and minimalistic. It is the sort of case I want to put a u-A1 in but that would be too challanging for me.

@DrBombcrater

Completely forgot the 9200 is faster than the 5200 although the iMac is a FX model (if that makes any difference). BTW, like the 6502 avatar. One of my favourite chips!

@Desolator

Would fitting memory yourself invalid the garantee on this thing? Besides, the 512MB upgrade is reasonablish.

Quote:

Many ppl are saving for a uA1 - and this may tempt them away.

In all honesty this has tempted me away but only temporary. I think OS4 final (manual, boxed, disk) would be out by May and this gives me chance to recharge my bank account.

I love all these small machines. I'm hoping for a SFF PCIe Athlon-64, u-A1, and a Mac mini all stacked on top of each other. I get the best of both worlds whilst taking up the desk space of one of those nasty Dell's.

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I think this is Apple's big dip at the Windows dominance, and more importantly, at Dell. Dell took a huge education market share from Apple over the past few years. This is Apple's way of saying "just ditch the ugly box and plug our box in". That way schools can keep their keyboards/mice/displays and use MacOS X box instead.

Everyone here seems to be focussing on one product released this morning. Don't forget the new version of iLife (iMovies, iDVD etc). iDVD now let's you plug in a camera and you can tell it to make a DVD from whatever is on there with one or two clicks. iMovie can build a movie from just raw footage (like to see how it works first!). Plus the new version of Keynote, Garageband and the word processor, Pages. These are things when sum totalled with a Mac and OSX *really* make a difference. They all seamlessly work together. And there are no viruses

If you want a pvr, just get an EyeTV to plug into the firewire port. Want a bigger drive, buy one and install it. If these new mini-macs are just as easy to open as the G5 iMac, piece of cake!

Fans of the Amiga will still buy an Amiga. People ticked off at Windows will start to seriously look at a Mac. Until you can buy an Amiga in a shop front, all boxed up with everything you need, the Mac is really the only alternative for Mum and Dad buyers.

@lavo

I just hope they won't do an IMiga

Both my brother and mother got rid of their pc's last year, and got Mac's instead.
They're both happy, and none of them are regretting leaving Windows, so yes, OSX has quite a lot of nice features

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@Billsey

AmiWin probably works, Holger Kruse did the port.

It hasn't been updated in yonks and is 68k, but did support RTG.

Other than that I'm not aware of any X server being available for AmigaOS.

Maybe Holger would be willing to give out the source, although it would have to be updated anyway, the X server it's based on is old as well.

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Sibbi

Disclaimer:
The opinions stated do not neccesarily represent those of my employer.

@Intuitioned

The case is actually smaller than mini-itx, so you couldn't even fit a mini-itx board in the thing.

The 9200 is a better card then the FX5200, the FX5200 is fairly crappy card. Although it is supported by core image whereas the 9200 is not. Win some, loose some.

Fitting the memory yourself does invalidate the warrenty. The $75 for the 512 meg DDR dimm is reasonable, 1GB DDR dimms are still very expensive, so that upgrade is very expensive for that reason.

This doesn't in any way change my mind about buying an AmigaOne. The only thing I would buy an Mac Mini for would be to replace my home x86 box. A mac isn't an amiga anymore than a x86 pc is an amiga.

Last edited by sibbi on 12-Jan-2005 at 02:38 AM.

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Sibbi

Disclaimer:
The opinions stated do not neccesarily represent those of my employer.

@DrBombcrater

Quote:

hat's a fairly capable chip, and faster then the GeForce 5200 they put in the iMac G5.

I really have doubts about that comment about the Radeon 9200.. Reasons I say this are as follows..

Most value PCs these days have a graphics card with at least 64MB or 128 MB of it's own memory. Not a "shared 32 MB".. This has serious implications on what you can do with the GPU for both texture memory and with shader technology. It eliminates the possiblity of a lot of cinema quality special fx that are present even in low-end value PCs of today..

Those of us with PCs or that are familiar with GPU (graphic processor unit) programming might even think that the graphics in this machine or two to three generations behind the current state of normal PC graphics.

It would be nice if the GPU was mini-agp card and replaceable in the unit. I don't see this unit based on speed and it's graphics power being something that I would stick a 22 inch monitor on. The question I have is where is the standard dual layer DVD burner in that price point? It's standard in most value PCs now and it is also only a $100 add on or less to go out and buy one.. Also where is the built in wireless (oh wait that's optional ) where is that price point now??

@Steff
Quote:

I probably agree with Rogue in that it will not in itself drastically change things but I think it may influence many people whom have been on the verge of buying a Mac before but have hesitated just because the price has been too high.

I think the primary market for AmigaOS and MorphOS was always going to be the ex-Amiga users, it is after all 1000 times bigger than the market for the "faithful". The existing market is minute and I doubt it's even paying the bills.

This essentially destroys that market (for hardware) I can't see how people don't realise that - unless you were never expecting to break out of the existing market...

--

This is a nice machine, it's powerful enough for most needs and is specced just as well if not better than similar priced PC - and that's not to mention the included software...

I rekon these things are going to sell like hot cakes, I was already seriously reconsidering gong back to developing audio software and this has pretty much convinced me. I wrote Amiga software once, I wouldn't even attempt it now (the Amiga audio scene was never that big and it never made me a living even then).

--

Unless the AmigaOS is to remain a tiny hobbiest OS I'd seriously consider allowing a AOM type system. I've always thought MorphOS should support it but they weren't interesed either :-/

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Whyzzat?

@DonnyEMU

It isn't sharing memory. It has 32 megs of dedicated memory. Quartz Extreme which is what you'll use most often uses all those 32 megs sure, but you'll get by with it.

You can realistically drive a 1920x1200 pixel display out of the DVI video output, which should be enough for most users.

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Sibbi

Disclaimer:
The opinions stated do not neccesarily represent those of my employer.

@thread

This is actually a pretty cool system. Of course, it annoys me now about what I paid for my used dual G4, but s'ok

With respect to it affecting uA1 sales.....sure, it could. There are always people that are looking for 'alternatives.' Some of them even forked out the $$ for a PowerMac or PowerBook to try OS X. Some of them in the past were interested in trying BeOS, and may be looking at AOS in the future. If Eyetech is still selling 3 gens back technology for state of the art prices, you think someone 'with an itch to try something new' won't pick up a Mac Mini in a heartbeat over a uA1-C or uA1-I at current prices, or even arguably at the same price? It will have an affect on that market.

That isn't to say that IS the market for AOS, of course...but it is a potential source of some trickling income, just like the existing Amiga fan base that are purchasing the A1s now. We all want to think the 'home' of AOS is the desktop, where somehow it's going to even get 1/10th of Apples marker (or a few that think no problem, it'll go head to head with M$ in a year or two), which just isn't going to happen without a _huge_ influx of cash.

Anyways...the mini mac isn't bad at all- it's perfect for the soccer mom or dad that's getting pissed off at Windows virii, and really like 'their cute iPod.' You can get MS Office on OS X, check email, and surf the web with a _REAL_ web browser. Oh yeah, and the thing is pretty fricking cute, too. Plus the software isn't bad....middle mid-tech American will eat these things up. If they add a media center type option (remote control, PVR software), the geek crowd might just eat them up too. Hmm, and a low cost PPC linux box? BBRV is probably wetting himself..it's not expandable, but it IS cheap.

OS X IMHO isn't all that great as a new user...looks like a broken version of a perfectly good *nix. I like my init scripts under /etc thank you very much! That annoying Menu bar at the top of the desktop screen instead of at least an OPTION to put it on the app windw (*cough , where it belongs!* ) is irritating. Not being able to customize the window decorations so the widgets are on the right side of the window is annoying. I see software updates available every few days with the OS X software installed...not critical updates like Windows often has, but updates. Oh, and the lack of integrating fink or the core BSD with the 'OS X updater' is somewhat annoying about OS X too.

But for the middle aged soccer mom, or grandma needing to check email, or anyone NOT using the command line...it's pretty. It has eye candy. It has modern applications that aren't bad. I'd be fine with safari if I could put the App menubar back on the app itself.

I can see people buying into these things, and then stepping up to buying an iBook (not badly priced at 1k), or perhaps asking for a Powerbook when their jobs pay for 'their next system', or even asking for a mini mac at work and saying it's cost competitve with the Dell they were going to get anyways (oddly enough, companies generally get beer standard prices on PCs, but they aren't stripped, nor do they get the '2 week only $500 off'' pricing that happens with Dell). Hell, IT WEIGHS THREE POUNDS! That's lighter than any of my laptops by half! people can throw them in their briefcase to give presentations or to work for the weekend assuming they have a monitor or LCD at home.

Hmm, there went one potential market for a 'A1 kiosk system' based on size (the mini is around 1/3 of the dimensions of my uA1 case) and price. OS X is 'BSD enough' that it should be able to be locked down pretty well, and the 'end user experience' isn't bad.

So yeah, I think these things have potential, and WILL sell. Entry level PCs, including (especially?) Dells nickel and dime you to hell adding in RAM and other 'essentials' (CD-RW, DVD, etc, so a few more bucks for 512MB RAM (which annoyingly can't even be bought for the uA1 yet...sigh, in that single RAM slot (in common with the uA1, but much faster memory)...and not a bad system at all. And an upsell or follow on sale into the iBook or Powerbook line is worth $$ to Apple.

Good job, Jobs...even if you are a dork.

Now if they made a G5 Powerbook for $1500....I would be *excited*

As much as I'd love to see it, I'm afraid to think that Amiga $$ may be tied more to the hardware than the software at this point, which means it's unlikely to see AOS ported (yes, this is sheer guessing from the available info, which is little as always), as I think this $500 system would shoot the uA1 for desktops right out of the water on specs and on pricing. That would leave AOS alone to somehow make Amiga/KMOS $$...until something 'magic' happens to change that income stream(or slow the bloodletting?), I just don't think we'll see AOS for other platforms, even if/when it is released as 4.0 gold.

PS- not slamming the uA1, I have one on order that might actually show up in the next 2 weeks. But yes, I think the pricing pushes some possible income away from A1s.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Quote:

ohno wrote: This will give me something to play until I can buy a ready-to-run, pre-installed Micro-A1i in a Fantasy-case. That's what I'm waiting for on the Amiga front now. Regards, Onno

Hi ohno,

Yeah!!!!, just wait and see, the Amiga Phantasy case kicks serious @$$!!!!

It's absolutely sexy, portable, compact (space efficient), expandable, AND powerful!


It COULD sell in the millions!



AmigaOne! AOS4.0! Future's so bright I gotta wear !!!!!!!

In Canada, the MacMini is $629 in its base configuration.

According to the Mac Group [link] (only Mac-only store in Ottawa), I was the first person to place a pre-order for one in the city. It will replace the Windows box my wife is using for surfing and email.

It turns out that we will have an unusual problem. I had initially planed to put it under my wife's LCD, but the MacMini is smaller than the LCD's footprint.

I think Apple will sell zillions of them, bringing many new Mac users into the family.

Quote:

AmiNTT wrote: In Canada, the MacMini is $629 in its base configuration. I think Apple will sell zillions of them, bringing many new Mac users into the family.

Hi AmiNTT,

Well, he's hit the beginning of the year running.

I hope that Steve "con" Jobs doesn't let you down in the long run, with all the add ons you'll be needing, it may cost you an arm and a leg more than you expected. What a gimmick (of the year) he's got going. Anyone for a swatch?


Maybe gates and ballmer whispered in his ear?

I don't think this'll be as cheap as people think, that's where all the vitriol is coming from.

For Amiga, maybe all the extra PPC sales will lower the price of CPUs for us? Hope so, maybe?



AmigaOne! AOS4.0! This is home!

Hi Atheist,

Something just occurred to me, Playstation 3 and x-$-x II will blow this out of the water, price, and more than likely, performance wise too. Its' days are numbered.


And the number is "666", oops, sorry, four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out!


- edit
Post no. 1245, nary a 3 in sight.
edit -

Last edited by Atheist on 12-Jan-2005 at 06:26 AM.

@Atheist
Quote:

I hope that Steve "con" Jobs doesn't let you down in the long run, with all the add ons you'll be needing, it may cost you an arm and a leg more than you expected. What a gimmick (of the year) he's got going. Anyone for a swatch?

What add ons will I be needing?

To quote myself:
Quote:

It will replace the Windows box my wife is using for surfing and email.

You don't need more than the base system to surf, send email or listen to MP3s, which is all my wife wants to do.

For this task, the MacMini (I keep wanting to call it the MiniMac) will do fine. For anything else, I'm sure my G5 can handle the task.

@Intuitioned

Another thought just came to mind...

There exists the possibility that no-one takes this computer seriously, it's so iSmall and iCute that they don't believe it's enough computer for them...the Cube definately suffered from this phenomenon albeit at a much higher price point...

Has anyone confirmed that the hard drive inside is 2.5" ATA...I mean it has to be from teh form factor right?

@Atheist

Quote:

I don't think this'll be as cheap as people think, that's where all the vitriol is coming from.

You need some alkali to neutralize that vitriol, methinks.

The Mac Mini looks like a great deal to me. My only complaint is that the base configuration should have 512 MB of RAM not 256 MB. Apart from that, it has everything it needs for the target market.

I'd buy one if I had a spare $500 kicking around. I've been looking around for a good deal on a processor upgrade for my 9500 (it's currently got a 333 MHz G3). I now think that the money would be better off going towards a Mac Mini.

Cheers,
Rich

I dont see why anyone is claiming it will kill the uA1 or A1. Its cheap enough for someone to buy a spare.

Lets face it most peopls motivation in buying an A1 or uA1 is to run version 4 or later of AmigaOS and help the operating system survive.

If your only motivation is as a "microsoft refugee" then for gods sake just go and buy a small x86 PC, run Linux and hang out with other basherboys on #l337

If your only motivation is as a "amd/intel refugee" then buy a Mac, new or used.

But if you want to use a new generation Amiga, you only have one choice, at the moment.

@DaveP

Quote:

Lets face it most peopls motivation in buying an A1 or uA1 is to run version 4 or later of AmigaOS and help the operating system survive.

Well said that man!

Let's face it: as far as your Aunt Tillie is concerned, AmigaOS 4.0 isn't yet ready to compete with MacOS X or Windows (lack of a modern browser or office suite are just two obvious problems).

When it is ready, then perhaps we can think about competing at the hardware level in terms of price/performance.

Cheers,
Rich

@DaveP

I don't think anyone who thinks about it thinks it's going to really significantly affect A1/uA1 sales, at least not at this point. I expect it will lose some 'fringe sales' that can be measured in single digit percentages. It will likely mean few 'consumer' Linux PPC sales for the A1 lineup, which doesn't seem to be happening anyway, at least not for Eyetech that anyone is aware of..

Of course, this does server as some sort of bang/buck comparison for hardware, within reason. If AOS4 is released, gains some new users, and then the new XC were to come out, say a G4 1GHZ with USB(2!!!), firewire and AGP comes out costing $2k....THEN it could be a problem with ever having a chance of converting anyone outside of hardcore fans, let alone perhaps even some Amiga fans. That would be a problem then, at least for the desktop users and the Linux/PPC market.

For the time being, not a big deal. It could possibly mean cheaper G4 CPUs for Eyetech in the future, which would be a good thing (I just don't see a new A1 box in the next year+, even in prototype, being a G5 box cost-wise) for A1s overall.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!