IMO, this is a interesting laptop idea: Transmeta Crusoe based laptop.

- it can be sold to Windows users with x86 code morphing
- it could be sold to Amiga users bundled with Amithlon/Berniethlon/AmigaForever
- it can be sold to AOS3.x users with 68060 code morphing (for RTG & AHI friendly apps)
- it can be sold to AOS4.x users with PPC code morphing
- it can be sold to PPC Linux and MOL users with ....

Any comments?


(well, it was interesting to me at least ... perhaps because I think I invented it after transmeta was mentioned elsewhere)

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

I am going to design A1200 + Blizz 1220 /25 Mhz A1200 laptop .

Except LCD AV monitor and the case almost ready.

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@KimmoK


As far as I know Transmeta only have a licence to emulate the x86 instruction set. They do not possess such a licence to morph to PPC, or 68K.

The only benefit the cruesoe really has is its ability to keep cool, and use very little heat. In terms of performace though , they are very slow when compared to other processors in the market today. As a result the cruesoe is best suited to mobile devices.

However, OS 4 does run on a HAL - so maybe if the HAL was ported along with any specific drivers that may do the trick?

@KimmoK

Quote:

(well, it was interesting to me at least ... perhaps because I think I invented it after transmeta was mentioned elsewhere)

That was in the "Jim Collas" era, right? IIRC there was no chance that Transmeta will do a 68k-code morphing CPU, though.

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@KimmoK

Interesting, but probably best steering away from the x86 / Windows path, which leads to despair, BeOS style !

My four penn'orth is to base something on IBM's reference design for a PDA, using one of their PowerPC 4xx series Low footprint CPUs:

these run around 400MHz (top end, last I heard) and support TFT screens.

-Use a larger screen - say 720x480 (possibly bigger - 8" screen ?)
-add in a Palm-V style keyboard (tiny, yet convenient to use),
-and a jog-dial type thing (as in various PDAs)
-a USB connector, and a couple of memory card slots (CF / SD etc) should complete the ensemble.
-a 2.5" HDD will contain apps, and software, the OS can go on a Flash ROM style internal memory seperate from the UBoot chip (necessarily surface mount, probably non-flashable). this would contain the kickstart, basic workbench and a few devices and libraries. everything else on the internal drive.
-a 10/100 MBit ethernet could also be included,
-simple audio (CMI8738 ?)
-Radeon Mobility for Graphics (not the top of the range version !)

this would inevitably be in a case somewhat larger than a PDA, but smaller than most Laptops, and sufficiently different. maybe include a laptop-style DVD for watching movies on the fly ?
Possibly even a DVD-RAM for recording video !

Caveat:
this is just me thinking into an edit-field. it is not meant to be structured (despite appearances !).
should be some interesting points for discussion !

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@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

The only benefit the cruesoe really has is its ability to keep cool, and use very little heat. In terms of performace though , they are very slow when compared to other processors in the market today. As a result the cruesoe is best suited to mobile devices.

Hence my suggestion of IBM's 4xx series PowerPC CPUs. VERY low power consumption, and a few other goodies for portability - possibly even TFT driver circuitry, and a trimmed PPC core, though instruction compatible.
and we know that even stock PPCs are cool running chips !! no contest, IMO !

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@Bobsonsirjonny

"As far as I know Transmeta only have a licence to emulate the x86 instruction set. They do not possess such a licence to morph to PPC, or 68K."

I think they do not need licence necessarily. Code morpher inside crusoe is alittle bit like PearPC for the LVIW unit of the crusoe.

"The only benefit the cruesoe really has is its ability to keep cool, and use very little heat."

Right. It would not outperform PPC750 in low power use.

But in this case the same (laptop) motherboard could be sold to different market segments. (x86 and PPC) That would be the basic idea and advantage of this solution.


"In terms of performace though , they are very slow when compared to other processors in the market today. As a result the cruesoe is best suited to mobile devices."

IIRC, 1Ghz crusoe delivered 700Mhz P3 performance (identical to about 700Mhz G3). Enough for a small Amiga OS4 laptop, IMO.

"However, OS 4 does run on a HAL - so maybe if the HAL was ported along with any specific drivers that may do the trick?"

If crusoe is made to run PPC binaries, all that Hyperion needs to do is to port "other" relevant parts of the HAL, etc. And someone needs to get the licence from KMOS.
I think. This would not be stepping on the toes of Eyetech.

Biggest issue is that: Someone would need to have the money to pay transmeta to develop the code morpher (with northbridge).

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Agafaster

"Interesting, but probably best steering away from the x86 / Windows path, which leads to despair, BeOS style !"

Thinking about dual booting to the competing environment?

The motherboard could be locked with UBoot bios or by disbling crusoe code morpher change possibilities, so that once dongled as Amiga compatible it would not be possible to change it "back" to x86.

"My four penn'orth is to base something on IBM's reference design for a PDA, using one of their PowerPC 4xx series Low footprint CPUs:..."

Then there would be the problem of getting the volumes up (Linux would not run satisfyingly fast on such embedded PPC) to get the price down and R&D costs covered. By using crusoe it might be possible to tackle both x86 and PPC market without changes in HW.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Giovanni

"IIRC there was no chance that Transmeta will do a 68k-code morphing CPU, though."

It depends... I think there's still a lot of industrial 68k CPU users that could have some use of 1Ghz 68060.

More interestingly, for AOS4 use: would it be cheaper to just to develop the PPC code morpher than a whole new laptop motherboard?

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@turkamigaman

I have an LCD, and I have an idea for a scan converter (I have most of the parts, just need to learn some FPGA programming, we're doing a course on it this fall at work ). I also have a laptop keyboard and touchpad which could be useful.

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As I said, I ran the idea by Ben(Hyperion) at the Amiwest show and he was dead set against it, and practically called me an idiot for mentioning it. Ok, not quite, but I felt like one. He went on about the superiority of the PPC over everything out there. Seriously, there were PPC specs coming out of his mouth faster than a speeding locomotive.

Talking completely out of my a$$, but perhaps the reason Crusoe can code-morph to an x86 at all is because of the Cyrix/486 litigation where 486 was deemed a model number and therefore could be copied. Isn't that why Intel changed the name of their next gen chip to the Pentium rather than the 586? Thinking about it more, I doubt IBM or Freescale are going to allow another chip manufacturer to emulate their chip and compete with them.

@Kimmok
Is your avatar a Transmeta device? Imagine if that was an Amiga. Awesome.

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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@olegil

I am very glad to find somebody talk aboot Laptop Classic Amiga here.

I found a very thin laptop keyboard which has 2 slice of films in.
top slice has full circle and bottom has 2 half circle under each key. I used top slice only and design a pcb for Amiga keyboard scheme as standard A1200 film design .

I used Datron brand pc mouse which has a ball on, for use as both wheels . But this may use ball as a trackball.

And Blizz 1220 / 25 mhz is very narrow design then 1230 . So I can get 12 cm narrow then original 1200 case

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@BigBentheAussie

"As I said, I ran the idea by Ben(Hyperion) at the Amiwest show and he was dead set against it, and practically called me an idiot for mentioning it. Ok, not quite, but I felt like one. He went on about the superiority of the PPC over everything out there. Seriously, there were PPC specs coming out of his mouth faster than a speeding locomotive."

Perhaps he just thought about porting AOS4 to x86 and his response was according to that misunderstanding...

"Talking completely out of my a$$, but perhaps the reason Crusoe can code-morph to an x86"

It does not codemorph to x86.
It code morphs x86 to VLIW (VeryLongInstructionWord) CPU core of the crusoe.
It's llike x86 JIT emulator for VLIW CPU, except that it's done in HW and therefore it's fast.

"at all is because of the Cyrix/486 litigation where 486 was deemed a model number and therefore could be copied. Isn't that why Intel changed the name of their next gen chip to the Pentium rather than the 586? Thinking about it more, I doubt IBM or Freescale are going to allow another chip manufacturer to emulate their chip and compete with them."

They do not have anyting they can do if someone wants to do a competing CPU.
Crusoe with PPC code morphing would be just a competing CPU.

(and it would not be the first PPC CPU clone beyond Moto/IBM in PPC history)

"Is your avatar a Transmeta device? Imagine if that was an Amiga."

Yes it is and yes it would be "nice". And it's theorethically possible.

(I just put the avatar there to remind people what "mobile" means in it's whole flexibility. It's far more than cell phones, things like computers integrated to big LCD pads, etc, etc.....)

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

For a Laptop, I would like to go a few steps further. I would like to see a laptop that didn't look like a laptop at all. Just a small clip on box with 3D glasses instead of a screen. A virtual keyboard or folding one. This would keep everything small and private. Perhaps a true 3d interface could be developed especially tailered to the 3d glasses. I think the compeditors 3d desktop offerings are just eye candy and not really adding much function for a decrease in performance.

As far as x86 goes, when the Amiga matures again, the only reason why I would need x86 is to run programs from work on. Perhaps this could be done through an emulator or a new bridge card. I am really more interested in seeing native Amiga applications for the new OS. Legesy software is nice to run, mainly because there is not that much native software yet available. Right now I think even MS themselves are seeing that the PowerPC is going to provide more performance with less heat and power. Why else are they looking to IBM? If the new Xbox houses a PowerPC then this is a clear indication of a complete change in direction. So I wouldn't buy any Intel stock any time soon. I really do think that there was a great deal of thought and projection put into choosing the PowerPC and I really think they were right.

@KimmoK

What would be nice is if IBM would reintroduce a PowerPC based ThinkPad. Then all Hyperion would have to do is get OS 4 to run on it.

IBM is who we need behind an Amiga laptop. Anyone here work for IBM?

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@AmigaMac

Real PowerPC laptop would be nice as well, ofcourse. (even if it never could reach the pricepoint & sales numbers of crusoe based (x86 and PPC compatible) laptop)

IBM PPC thinkpad buyers would be us and a few PPC linux (+MOL) fans.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@nzv58l

Quote:

As far as x86 goes, when the Amiga matures again, the only reason why I would need x86 is to run programs from work on. Perhaps this could be done through an emulator or a new bridge card

I was thinking of putting a microA1 and a miniITX mobo in the same box and somehow getting their displays to merge on the same screen, so you have an AmigaOS Window and a XP window on the same screen. Or, of course you could just use VNC to access the PC from the Amiga or viceversa but that doesn't seem as much fun. Someone is sure to build a siamese system or software to integrate the platforms.

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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@KimmoK

Right this cruesoe and code morphing. What exactly does it mean? Does it mean the cruesoe can be whatever processor it wants?

Also its BLOODY COOL! It could make some DEAD SILENT Amigas. Including the up coming Amiga thin client ehhhem I mean Micro A1! Lets hope that its possible to make MicroA1 fanless it looks very likely judging the size of its wee heatsink!

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@ihatewestlife2002

"Does it mean the cruesoe can be whatever processor it wants?"

Yes. It can be even re-programmed. (unless the possibility has been disabled nowdays...)

But the development of the code morpher takes lot of man years.
(I'm sure PPC (RISC) code morpher is easier to do than the x86 version, though.)

"Also its BLOODY COOL! It could make some DEAD SILENT Amigas."

PowerPCs are not that power hungry heat generators either.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

So the cruesoe is like a super processor? Could it even be programmed on a board so that you could select the type of processor you want it to be and have it boot? Would it also be good for emulation?

A processor that can be anything and runs cool sounds like the best processor in the world

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If you play a Linux DVD backwards you can clearly see a cool place with penguins. If you play it forwards, it will install the greatest operating system available for your PC computer!