@itix

Quote:

To me this sound like you contradict yourself. First you play nice guy and then you dont play nice guy. Tsk tsk.

Thanks for your kind words. Such way you will get many new users.


In every MorphOS or AROS related news item, I aplaud their success. But yes, you know best, I´m simly MorphOS hater...

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: What I fail to understand is why you continue to discuss about technical things without having the right knowledge. Experiences as a user cannot cover it. Sure, I don´t know UAE internals or technical details of Amiga emulation. However, user experience is most important there. I suggested experimental verification, you ignored such proposal. Your choice.

Honestly, I don't really have a choice. What kind of useful information a coder can acquire by following your suggestion? Nothing technically important, because I already know how the emulator works, and I know the cost of trivial scaling operation.

It's clear, to me, that there should be ANOTHER reason which goes beyond the pure task of emulating the Amiga hardware (which, I repeat again, it was the center of the discussion). That's why I suggested a test with another graphic card (a 9200, for example, which is very different from the RadeonHD that you cited). And for all that stuff I don't even need to make some manual testing: my coding experience is enough.
Quote:

Quote: AFAIK, the communication between 68K and PowerPC worlds is easier to handle and implement, but I haven't investigated such low-level details. You may read about WinUAE/PowerPC transition on EAB, there are few threads from last year dedicated to such topic.

OK, thanks.

@cdimauro

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Nothing technically important, because I already know how the emulator works,

Quote:

And for all that stuff I don't even need to make some manual testing: my coding experience is enough.

I feared you will say this.

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Nothing technically important, because I already know how the emulator works, Quote: And for all that stuff I don't even need to make some manual testing: my coding experience is enough. I feared you will say this.

Then you are free to show what kind of technically relevant issue happens when selecting a 640x480 screen, and prove how a simple manual test can find it.

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: @megol Quote: megol wrote: Using dedicated processors for processor and chipset emulation will make better use of cache resources and allow many optimizations in general. It isn't without problems though - synchronization between the cores will be expensive so in some pathological cases it could perhaps run slower than the standard emulator design or at least much slower than the normal case. Yes, it can happen. It depends on how much frequently the CPU accesses the chipset registers. For games I think that the normal approach is recommended. However for an RTG Amiga, the multi-core solution provides much better performance, especially if using some trick. Quote: The worst case was (IIRC) code that used the same loop to touch memory and chipset registers as one couldn't simply fast-path the detection but would end up with expensive context switches involving both the CPU core and the Chipset core. This can be avoided with some other trick.

Care to tell me about it? I spent quite some time designing and verifying a path towards a high performance Amiga emulator for AMD64 systems and even with all tricks* I could come up with that worst case scenario - while unlikely to happen in normal code - was both expensive and fragile.

NB that I only designed the system, never implemented it more than needed to verify it would work.

(* including allowing the CPU emulation core to run partial chipset emulation, multi-path translation of 68k code with dynamic switching and using a smart exception handler for page faults)

@mbrantley

Quote:

I was absent from the Amiga scene for a few years and came back in the last decade. In that away time my assumption was Amiga was down and out and forgotten. Glad to have been wrong. I was and am excited to see there IS an Amiga scene and new stuff available to enjoy, with more on the way. To me the dadgum glass is not half full or half emtpy. From this standpoint, it's running over.

+1

Scott

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@SACC-dude

Quote:

SACC-dude wrote: @amigadave Just to make this "real"! In most cases... there are talkers and there are doers. (aka users and makers!) Myself, I am just a talker and buyer.People like AEon's Trever is a doer/makers. In most cases, the talkers flood the forums and talk. Now some talkers change into Doers by paying up (usually a lot) and make a product/business! So David, be happy, don't worry. There are Doers doing. They are just not on the forums talking.

What does any of the above have to do with anything I have written in this thread?

I supported Trevor by purchasing an X1000 computer from AmigaKit & A-Eon. I have also supported Trevor in the past with many forum posts defending his decisions about what to produce and attempt to sell, even though I did not totally agree with those decisions, they were his to make. I still support Trevor's freedom to produce and attempt to sell any product he chooses, and I admire his dedication, but no longer believe that what AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS have to offer suits my needs, nor will they be able to provide what I want from my Amiga hobby in the future. (Edit: Let me clarify that point. It is not that AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS can't do what I want in running Amiga software natively, or through emulation, it is just that they don't offer enough extra value to me, above and beyond what AmigaOS3.x gave me. With the advances in emulation over the past several years, and the prospect of vast speed increases using FPGA hardware, AmigaOS3.x seems to fit my needs better. I would rather see where those paths lead, and only keep an occasional eye on AmigaOS4.x & MorphOS advances in the future.) AROS, or AEROS might get closer to what I want as a system that can do both modern tasks and retro computing well, some day in the future, but they are not there yet, so my choice now is to change focus toward "Classic" Amiga use, emulated Amiga on modern hardware, and possibly some really fast Amiga performance through the use of FPGA hardware emulation, for my retro computing fix. I'll use modern computers and operating systems for everything else I need to do on a computer.

I like Trevor and hope he has all the success he dreams of. I just don't believe in HIS dream and never really did. Frankly, I thought the X1000 would be a one time chance that would probably never be repeated again, so I bought one while they were available. Few people could have guessed that Trevor would continue to spend tens of thousands of dollars (if not hundreds of thousands), on future PPC systems, that he has little chance to recover his investment from.

If some of the AmigaOS4.x community sees this as a betrayal by me, then they never really knew me in the first place, or knew what my thoughts were regarding the Amiga and it's current and future directions are. PPC was the right choice for the future of the Amiga at one point in time, but it is hard to say that it is still the right choice now. For me, the lack of progress, new software, and the rate of speed that the Amiga NG hardware and operating systems continue to fall behind mainstream choices, makes it clear to me that the original 68k Amiga suits my hobby needs better, and all other computing for me is better done on a modern system. I am not trying to convince anyone to follow my choice, but I did invite each person to re-evaluate their own choices, to make sure they know why they continue on the path they are on.

I am surprised by some of the responses, but really should not be.

Edit: As for worrying or being happy, where my thoughts and feelings about my Amiga hobby are concerned, I have not been happier or less worried for the past 10 to 15 years. I know this is the right choice for me.

Last edited by amigadave on 31-May-2015 at 01:05 PM.
Last edited by amigadave on 31-May-2015 at 12:45 PM.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

as you wrote "no surprise"

@megol

Quote:

megol wrote: @cdimauro Quote: cdimauro wrote: @megol Yes, it can happen. It depends on how much frequently the CPU accesses the chipset registers. For games I think that the normal approach is recommended. However for an RTG Amiga, the multi-core solution provides much better performance, especially if using some trick. [...] This can be avoided with some other trick. Care to tell me about it?

Sorry, I don't know what other people does in his life. I just care about what I do on my (very little) free time.
Quote:

I spent quite some time designing and verifying a path towards a high performance Amiga emulator for AMD64 systems and even with all tricks* I could come up with that worst case scenario - while unlikely to happen in normal code - was both expensive and fragile. NB that I only designed the system, never implemented it more than needed to verify it would work. (* including allowing the CPU emulation core to run partial chipset emulation, multi-path translation of 68k code with dynamic switching and using a smart exception handler for page faults)

Are you sure that you tried/know all tricks?

For example, my idea is to do NOT run any chipset emulation code on the CPU core.

I've other ideas also, but I cannot kill the o.s., unfortunately, and I don't plan to write one only for the Amiga emulation.

However I haven't verified them with real code. Lucky you that you had time to test your ideas.

P.S. I already stated that my purpose is to do NOT find a solution for playing games. It's designed for a chipset emulation with the o.s. running on top, to give the maximum possible speed to the CPU execution code.

Last edited by cdimauro on 31-May-2015 at 01:57 PM.
Last edited by cdimauro on 31-May-2015 at 01:57 PM.

@amigadave

(After waddling through all the AROS advertising.)

Sounds to me like you are looking for a new Amiga. That is, a currently produced replacement for classic hardware. Something that can be used for fun and the more mundane tasks. Something that may not do everything but can be made to do enough to keep a community going and growing. Something that will serve as an anchor that people will use as a base for differing interests within a larger community.

In other words, stable hardware. No more moving targets.

Am I right?

(Now we will break for more adverts and techno-babble.)

_________________
Tinkering with computers.

If there's nothing really great for the 30th anniversary of the Amiga or at least until Amiwest then we're done for good.
Kamelito

@kamelit0

Quote:

If there's nothing really great for the 30th anniversary of the Amiga or at least until Amiwest then we're done for good. Kamelito

dont worry, there sure will be exciting announcements as every year.

I guess that the future for Amiga users should necessarily go through the re-creation of a user base of tens of thousands of users.
After all these years with our 3 alternatives (AmigaOne/AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS) in our small world, I am convinced that to achieve the goal mentioned above you should make three difficult, very difficult steps:

- re-put together all Amiga and Commodore IPs and marks, now scattered among several companies; this is a very complex, difficult and expensive step.

- you need a concrete vision for the mid-term future, and the ability to put it into practice; in other words, a very good management and very good technicians.

- shift to ARM or x86/64, to have a price-performance ratio closer to that of the mainstream market (and finally have long awaited notebooks); even this it's not a simple step.

In other words, to do all this, you firstly need a lot of money, choosing to seriously risk this money without any warranty of succes.

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A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

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@andres

The only one who is (perhaps) able to invest some money (and already does) is Trevor D. but he is already spending lots of money in new PPC hardware. In my view too it would have made more sense to invest in a ISA shift but it is his money. So I doubt he will put all the money in toilet now to finance a ISA shift. And of course it is risky. Trevor D. always tries to minimize risks and recollect all of his money. Financing ISA shift would be highly risky.

hey No. 6 !

.....i know, i know...but where's that darn little thingy of the dude beating the dead horse again

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! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
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X1000 I BELIEVE

@klx300r


Number6 signed on 3 weeks ago you're going to have to wait another 5 weeks before he signs on again. :P

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

Quote:

terminills wrote: @klx300r Number6 signed on 3 weeks ago you're going to have to wait another 5 weeks before he signs on again. :P

thanks I hope 6 is doing ok & just busy with 'life'

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

@pavlor

You clearly do not understand the motivation for MorphOS. Hint, it is not about attracting new users, and never was.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@thread

Focusing 100% on having fun with the mature 68k system is appealing, vs trying to enjoy the NG systems that are not that robust yet.
Advocating mature 68k system (as fun playground) that does not try to beat modern systems is also sane thing.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@amigadave

Quote:

amigadave wrote:The future, of what is now only a hobby, for a few thousand Amiga users, will remain very splintered and varied, but for me, my focus will be aimed more toward enjoying what I already have, and following just how far the original idea of an Amiga can go forward, with projects like the Apollo Team accelerators, and the Natami (if it is ever started up again and brought to a finished state that is available for the public to purchase).

I found a drop in replacement for the SID chip so the Natami team could free up some FPGA space and use it for something else.