@agami

I buy Amiga 500 1 GHz (Sam460)
because it was cheaper than amiga with full 68060 and pci slots
and many times faster

and after 10 years it still is cheaper and faster

cheapest mac for mos I buy for only 12 E

all money that I spend on ppc will be still less than amiga with full 68060 and pci slots

mattay agami and rest of 68k trolls should hard work on 68k with gvb instead of trolling
natami/apollo/vampire is still not good enough
it need 3D at least on PS1 level
still need to fix FPU
and still need to fix many bugs in OS

@ppcamiga1

How does Deluxe Paint work on your so called A500?

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@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: native os, cpu many times faster than fastest 68060 and 68080, fast 2D, fast 3D, working MMU, working FPU

But no MUI 5.
Stop trolling and start working on MUI 5 port for AmigaOS 4.
Also, A1222+ does not have "working FPU".

Quote:

it is at least as fast and as comfortable as cheap pc from win 95 era something that real 68k never reach

But it is at least twice as expensive as a cheap Gaming PC from 2024:
- with multi-core and multi-threading support,
- PCIe 4.0 and 5.0,
- DDR4/DDR5 RAM support,
- NVMe SSD support,
- 1GbE and 2.5GbE networking,
- Wi-Fi 6 or faster,
- Bluetooth,
- also available in portable (laptop/notebook) form-factor,
- plays all the late '90s and early 2000s 3D games, plus all Amiga 68k software via UAE,
- plays all modern 3D gaming titles,
- has modern web browsers which work on all websites, and
- many options for free/open-source operating systems and software.

Supports programing in C, Objective-C, C++, C#, Python, endless parade of Javascript frameworks, PHP, Ruby, Rust, etc. Not that it matters because you're not a programmer.

You just like PowerPC because you think that being different automatically makes you cool, and you like bigger number makes people with smaller number cry.
You go on and on about 'native' and 'fun' with single-core 32-bit big-endian, but really what you are saying is that you have reached the limit of your learning capacity. That's OK. There's no shame in that. It eventually happens to all people.

What you fail (refuse) to accept, is that all these Amigans working on AROS 68k, AxRT, PiStorm + emu68, Apollo V2/V4 FPGA, they are ALL having fun.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @agami I buy Amiga 500 1 GHz (Sam460) because it was cheaper than amiga with full 68060 and pci slots and many times faster and after 10 years it still is cheaper and faster

You know what else is cheaper (by at least 50%) and faster (by at least 200%), and has only gotten better over the past 10 years?
The Open Computing Platform (see previous response above).

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @agami I buy Amiga 500 1 GHz (Sam460) because it was cheaper than amiga with full 68060 and pci slots and many times faster

That's AmigaOne 500 (Sam460) released in 2011.

PowerPC 405 was used to emulate PS1's MIPS R3000A CPU for later PlayStation 2 variants.

----------

The C= Amiga 500's 68000 CPU selection was complementary with other mainstream game consoles like Sega's Mega Drive/Genesis's 68000.

My point: any Neo-Amiga 500 wannabee should be running a complimentary and comparable strength mainstream game console CPU.

For the current generation, the lowest complimentary mainstream game console CPU is the Nintendo Switch's ARM Cortex A57 (3-wide decoders) which is recycled for Cortex A72.

For the rumored incoming Nintendo Switch 2 game console, https://www.techpowerup.com/330410/nintendo-switch-2-pcb-leak-reveals-an-nvidia-tegra-t239-chip-optically-shrunk-to-5nm
NVIDIA T239 SoC's CPU features
# One ARM Cortex X1 HP-core,
# Three ARM Cortex A78 P-cores,
# Four ARM Cortex A55 E-cores. Cortex A55 replaced Cortex A53.
Total: 8 CPU threads

Some games' single-thread bias is served by Cortex X1 HP-core (5 wide decoders, out of order).

This is just the CPU consideration, not including the GPU.

ARMv8 still supports big-endian mode which is common with 68K and PPC BE mode.

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 02:38 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 02:36 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 02:35 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: mattay agami and rest of 68k trolls should hard work on 68k with gvb instead of trolling natami/apollo/vampire is still not good enough it need 3D at least on PS1 level still need to fix FPU and still need to fix many bugs in OS

The current AC68080 V2 FPU is good enough to run the existing compiled AmigaOS 68K Quake.

https://eliyahu.org/tabor/games.html
For A1222 with e500v2 PPC core, Quake I (software render), Fatal DSI during launch.

A1222 is struggling with FPU-heavy Quake-based game engines. The results are worse than the Cyrix 6x86. LOL. The person who advised the e500 PPC core for desktop use case wasn't wise.

Quake has kicked out many CPU vendors from the desktop market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaoN9lmwfxQ
A-EON X5000's e5500 PPC CPU core runs Quake.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

_ThEcRoW wrote: @Hammer AtariST vga output for high resolution monochrome is usable with standard vga monitors. Is one of the things that amiga lacked, a good vga output directly from the board.

1. Atari ST's game use case wasn't compatible with common VGA monitors.

PC VGA chipset has a built-in scan line doubler for 200/240 line resolution modes, hence VGA was able to use simplified 31 Khz VGA monitors.

C= Amber's expensive frame buffer requirement is needed for OCS's interlace modes which is not needed for VGA's 31 kHz 640x480p modes.

IBM's VGA foundation was good for PC's mass production when VGA clones arrived.

C= Amber's expensive frame buffer and A2024 monitor weren't conducive for mass production. No mainstream PC clone vendor executed Henri Rubin's stupidity.

If the original intent for ECS was executed for ECS-ready A500 Rev6A, a similar issue will occur. The difference is that the A500 has stronger gaming capability with stronger unit sales.

AGA era C= 1942 monitor is a dual 15 Hz and 31 Hz monitor.


2. Atari ST's 16-color display with a 512 color palette is a step above PC's EGA.

VGA has a hardware scroller which is missing on Atari ST.

For Jack Tramiel's POV, buy MegaST for the Blitter feature which is the same crap product segmentation mentality with C16/Plus4 vs C64.

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 03:05 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 02:59 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@matthey

Quote:

Interestingly, the AC68080@100MHz can come close to the performance of Efika PPC e300 CPU core in a low cost FPGA with the better memory performance. A $500 USD higher priced FPGA may allow a 150 MHz to 180 MHz clock and a $1000 USD higher priced FPGA may allow a 200 MHz plus clock and better memory performance which may outperform the Efika PPC CPU. The economics are worse than the low production PPC AmigaNOne hardware using outdated commodity hardware though. An AC68080 ASIC may clock to 2 GHz from an ASIC that costs $0.20 USD to produce. The very cheap transistors in an ASIC could be used to provide much more than 10 times the performance of a high end FPGA too. The value difference measured in performance/$ is as close as comparing a golf cart to a mass produced Porsche.

The cost is more than 0.20 USD per unit when porting/modification/modernization and business overhead costs are factored in.

Rochester Electronics has a 68040 license and it's not price vs performance competitive.
https://www.rocelec.com/global-search/68040

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@agami

Quote:

MUI 5 port for AmigaOS 4.

https://github.com/amiga-mui/muidev/releases/tag/MUI-5.0-20210831

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@agami

Quote:

Open Computing Platform

Surely you mean the Open Compute Platform?

OCP is an alternative server architecture ("enterprise") and not really relevant to anything discussed here.

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@agami

you should not compare amiga ppc to pc
you should compare amiga ppc to 68060 with pci slots

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 16-Jan-2025 at 11:19 AM.

what I see here there is fundamental problem with 68k
It is graphics
Commodore screw it by using planar insted of chunky pixel for 256 and more colors
amiga ppc fix it by using pc cards
it is what it is but at least it fix what Commodore broke
all this 68k scumbags that attack ppc should be happy
that someone fix biggest problem with amiga at rational price

all this 68k scumbags that attack ppc
should provide graphcis as fast as good as easy to use as OCS was
if want people to use again 68k (no vampire is not enough)

agami, mattay, hammer should hard work on graphics for 68k instead of trolling

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: what I see here there is fundamental problem with 68k It is graphics Commodore screw it by using planar insted of chunky pixel for 256 and more colors

HAM8 is not slow when coupled with a fast enough CPU.

https://youtu.be/wbWGAFIkA5E
Quests Of Nargoth with AGA HAM8 example. I ran this incomplete game on a real C= A1200 with PiStorm32/EMu68/RPi CM4 and it was pretty smooth with AGA's HAM8 display.


Quote:

amiga ppc fix it by using pc cards

RPi's Broadcom VideoCore IV/VI iGPU is not a PC card.

AMD/NVIDIA PC GPU cards have IBM VGA legacy instead of C= Amiga legacy. The latest AMD GPUs like Radeon 780M iGPU from Ryzen 7 8845HS APU still have IBM VGA legacy clones.

PS; Radeon 780M iGPU has 8.294 TFLOPS FP32 (via the new dual issue) and 16.59 TFLOPS (2:1 ratio) shaders.

Intel ARC and BattleMage GPU PC cards do not have IBM VGA PC legacy i.e. they wouldn't boot with VBIOS in real mode 8086.

Intel ARC and BattleMage GPU are not IBM PC-compatible display adapters. LOL



Quote:

it is what it is but at least it fix what Commodore broke all this 68k scumbags that attack ppc should be happy that someone fix biggest problem with amiga at rational price

That's false with "rational price".

PiStorm32/Emu68/RPi CM4 for A1200 has RTG progress and C= Amiga legacy in place of IBM VGA legacy.

Intel BattleMage B580 12GB has beaten AMD Radeon RX 7600 XT 8GB on price and performance.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-arc-b580/
Intel BattleMage B580 won the great value award.

AMD Radeon lost the "great value" category for the USD250 price range to Intel. A reminder to the new "SGI" like NVIDIA.


Quote:

all this 68k scumbags that attack ppc

You can't handle the truth.


Quote:

should provide graphcis as fast as good as easy to use as OCS was if want people to use again 68k (no vampire is not enough)

A1200's PiStorm32/Emu68/RPi CM4 has no problems rivaling SAM460 1.1Ghz setup.


Quote:

agami, mattay, hammer should hard work on graphics for 68k instead of trolling

You're a scumbag.

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 12:19 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 12:12 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 12:04 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2025 at 12:01 PM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Hammer

You're wasting your time. ppcamiga1 will never get over the lack of native chunky pixels. Arguments like there being a CPU/Bus performance limit after which C2P conversion ceases to be the bottleneck are wasted on him. And to be fair, chunky pixels - on a good RTG card, are great to have, along with the high and true colour capabilities they bring.

Rumour has it that that an 8-bitplane monster caused him irreparable emotional damage in his younger days.
And I should know, I started that rumour.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

@Karlos

Quote:

Rumour has it that that an 8-bitplane monster caused him irreparable emotional damage in his younger days. And I should know, I started that rumour.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@matthey

Quote:

year | CPU core(s) | DMIPS/MHz/core | memory | fab process 2024 A18/? ? LPDDR5X 3nm (Apple A18 SoC) 2018 Cortex-A76 6.6 LPDDR4X 16nm (RPi 5 SoC with OoO CPU cores) 2012 Cortex-A53 2.3 DDR2 40nm (RPi 3 SoC with in-order CPU cores) 2011 P5020/e5500 3.0 DDR3 45nm (X5000 SoC with OoO PPC CPU cores) 2009 PPC460EX 2.0 DDR2 90nm (Sam460 SoC with OoO PPC CPU core) 2008 QorIQ-P1022/e500v2 2.4 DDR3 45nm (A1222 SoC with OoO PPC CPU cores) 2008 Core_i7_920 7.0 DDR3 45nm (1st gen OoO Core i3/i5/i7/i9) 2007 PA6T 2.2 DDR2 65nm (X1000 SoC with OoO PPC CPU cores) 2005 MPC5200B/e300 1.9 DDR 90nm? (Efika SoC with OoO PPC CPU core) 2002 PPC970 2.9 130nm DDR (G5 OoO PPC CPU) 1997 PPC750 2.3 260nm (G3 PPC CPU) 1995 PPC603e 1.4 preSDRAM 350nm (OoO PPC CPU) 1994 68060 1.8 preSDRAM 500nm (in-order 68k CPU released in 1994) 1993 PPC601 1.4 preSDRAM 600nm (OoO PPC CPU) The 1st gen Core i7 specs are closer to the X5000 P5020 SoC specs with similar chip fab process and memory but the Core i7 having more than twice the performance. The Cortex-A76 has a decade newer silicon and still can not reach the 1st gen Core i7 in performance even though it more than doubled the X5000 PPC P5020 performance. Do you understand yet what makes CISC CPU cores so powerful or do you need me to explain it again?

You're trying to convince me CISC is better based on a benchmark no one in the desktop space has used in decades? Seriously?
Not to mention, you've listed all sorts of different processors designed for different purposes at different times, prices and power points.

Could it be that if you use a benchmark actually used today it might tell a different story?
If you run Geekbench, the A76 SoC quite throughly beats the i7 920.

Not only that:
The i7 uses 130 Watts.
The A76 SoC uses 12 Watts.

Other than areas with a large legacy software base (i.e. Mainframes and PCs) Nobody else uses CISC. If it's so great, why is there is no CISC IV? Why are there no CISC GPUs?

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@Karlos

Quote:

You're wasting your time. ppcamiga1 will never get over the lack of native chunky pixels.

Some idiots instead of admiting that
AGA should have chunky pixels like it was on any other platform in 1992
start with this crap c2p.
I'm happy with graphics that Amiga should have 30 years ago.
Never want to return to AGA after first time I saw graphics card on Amiga.
made graphics for real 68k that Amiga should have 30 years ago.
chunky pixel at least 16 bit graphics and blitter for that.
stop trolling and start working on it.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

Never want to return to AGA after first time I saw graphics card on Amiga

So what's wrong with having both? It's not as if they are mutually exclusive. I went full RTGtard back when the BVision came out, but I still had a 1084 attached so that I could happily still use software and games that banged the metal. It was cool being able to use two different displays at once also (though I sometimes switched to high scan to be able to use Paula at 56kHz).

Anyway you keep going on about having these things at a rational price. As if new PPC hardware is remotely rationally priced, lol

Last edited by Karlos on 16-Jan-2025 at 06:30 PM.

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@Karlos

amiga ppc is stil cheaper than 68060 with pci slots and graphics card

provide something as fast as 060 real 68k no emulator
with graphics that amiga should have 30 years ago
16 bit color ps1 speed level
at rational price or get lost