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number6
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The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 18:04:22
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @thread
Quote:
Kouri paid for AmigaOS4, therefore since he didn't receive said AmigaOS4, there is a debt. Since Pentti passed away, this debt is to the family/family trust. Since Darren still acted for their interests as well as the interests of Amiga Inc., this really isn't something being written off.
That's why I mentioned before that buying Amiga Inc. is more than just buying Amiga Inc. as a company. |
Source
One AW bit of historical reference
My apologies for linking to a thread SO heavily moderated for abuse...page after page.
reference to the specific property
Now onto putting this all together:
Closing of the estate
Quote:
it took more than 40 attorneys from the Reed Smith six years to untangle tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate, according to court papers filed by Reed Smith lawyers. |
I think I want to throw up....
Hall Of Shame Member - Where Quality Matters But Legal Ethics Does not
For those who forgot, a prerequisite of selling Amiga Inc. was always believed to require the settling of the above estate. So, this is meaningful.
#6_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 18:15:20
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @thread
Quote:
A rep for the Kouri family declined to comment. |
Source
Indeed.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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damocles
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 18:31:21
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Super Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2007 Posts: 1719
From: Unknown | | |
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| @number6
And Amiga Inc?
_________________ Dammy |
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 18:53:38
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @damocles
Quote:
Not sure what you mean.
This IS Amiga Inc.'s attorney, Darren B. Cohen and his crew.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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blizz1220
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:10:59
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Regular Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
From: Unknown | | |
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| @number6
When you say that late Mr. Kouri paid for AmigaOS 4 (I admit I didn't read :P wouldn't help if I did unless there are up to date legal contracts there ) does it mean he paid HYPERION to make AmigaOS 4 or did he invest / give (difference) capital to Amiga Inc. to get that project done ?
Since I would guess it was other option then it's very easy , Kouris legal representatives just have to sue Amiga Inc.They didn't do that because if they did I guess it would be public by now.It was failed project and even if they took ownership now by some means (don't see how , legal case is closed) there wouldn't be much money there.
From what I see Darren and Mr. Kouri had more of a "friendly" type of business deal with Bill McEwen and don't seem to eager to make him suffer.
Bill McEwen is owner of Amiga Inc. , if he was to sell it through Darren as his lawyer there would be no legal way for Darren to just take his client's money.Legal ethics. |
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:17:05
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @blizz1220
Quote:
From what I see Darren and Mr. Kouri had more of a "friendly" type of business deal with Bill McEwen |
lol
I really need a direct link from you to prove that one.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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blizz1220
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:24:15
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Regular Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
From: Unknown | | |
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| @number6
Well I just try to use reason stupid me ...
Would you give large amounts of money to just some guy you don't like and when he came back and said "Er I spent it playing in casino" would you not sue ?
Kouri was investor behind Bill , right ? |
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:29:40
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @blizz1220
A discussion of WHO thought they were buying WHAT is way beyond the scope of this thread.
Suffice it to say that people like ProKom, Kouri, etc. thought they were going to be doing something with the operating system, based on their "investments". If you search AW for those names, you'll see. Also freeamiga gives a brief summary of same.
Source
#6
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blizz1220
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:52:22
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Regular Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
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| @number6
I'm sorry , I have some less complicated things to read and frankly that's your area of expertise.I'd say you should start writing a book (seriously) so those interested can catch up :)
What I wanted to correct you on is what you said that "sale of Amiga Inc. might have to go through Darren".That has no legal sense , trust me.Property is one of absolute rights , Amiga Inc. (correct me if I'm wrong) is sole property of one Bill McEwen.Owner has all rights on his property (to sell , to rent (license) or whatever).Only one who can stop owner from doing that would be co-owner.So if someone has a debt he can sue and become co-owner of Amiga Inc. (value of company would in that case be determined by court appointed specialists).If Bill has 100 % ownership of Amiga Inc. (as it is now) he can sell it and new owner doesn't have to worry about any debts of previous owner (that's not his problem) but only companies debts..
All I wanted to say.Also , lawyers will work for whoever hires them , they are more like ninjas and less than samurai in that aspect.So using terms like "Kouri's lawyer" is a bit of a stretch , they probably have other clients or are willing to take them.
One thing to note here is that is lawyer takes two clients that have legal conflict between them and chooses to keep both and represent them in that conflict he won't have license to practice law for much longer. Last edited by blizz1220 on 28-Aug-2015 at 07:53 PM.
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 20:08:56
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @blizz1220
You rewrote my words.
I said:
Quote:
Since Darren still acted for their interests as well as the interests of Amiga Inc., |
and
Quote:
That's why I mentioned before that buying Amiga Inc. is more than just buying Amiga Inc. as a company. |
refers to them wanting the debt INCLUDED in the sale. You buy the company. You buy the debt. We've been over this before.
#6
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blizz1220
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 28-Aug-2015 20:30:33
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Regular Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
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| @number6
Debt of a company as legal entity is ALWAYS included in sale , no need for extra intervention.
Debt of a individual can't be included in sale of his company , all he can do is ask for a larger price.
No lawyer could make Bill do either (legally) nor could he leave any signed evidence.If that was the case only possibility would be informal verbal agreement between them that debt would be settled with the sale.Once sale goes through they can still sue former owner as individual , no way to stop him from selling or even giving it away.
If Amiga Inc. has signed admission of debt than new owner would have to pay it as it is company debt. |
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Boot_WB
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 29-Aug-2015 8:24:05
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Super Member |
Joined: 14-Feb-2006 Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK | | |
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| @number6
Quote:
number6 wrote:
Quote:
it took more than 40 attorneys from the Reed Smith six years to untangle tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate, according to court papers filed by Reed Smith lawyers. |
I think I want to throw up....
#6 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWWU4THwre8
"Legal Ingenuity" - I don't quite know what to say... I guess that would be analogous to 'creative accounting'.
We don't know the substance of how this was settled wrt Amiga Inc, although I would hope any settlement would at least make it possible for Amiga Inc to value its liabilities (err, and assets?) with a bit more certainty.
Hopefully progress, but after 6 years of Reed Smith in feeding frenzy..._________________ Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions. opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet. |
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blizz1220
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 29-Aug-2015 9:47:39
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Regular Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Boot_WB
Lol
Well I would say that you can't blame just the lawyer , someone has to make debts , deals , plans , mess etc and then he hires lawyer to get the hell out of it.
Many lawyers would take cases that they know won't make any money even when they win (in some countries , they can't even refuse) as long as client pays court taxes.Pretty sure every lawyer had a case or 10 in his/hers life.
My point being that it's wiser to ask experts in the field you are entering (such as IT industry) and consult with lawyer before you get into that kind of situation.Most people tend to ignore what they are being told (especially by lawyers) and just say to push on through.It's not lawyer's decision to make in the end. |
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 29-Aug-2015 11:59:07
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @Boot_WB
Quote:
We don't know the substance of how this was settled wrt Amiga Inc, |
Well, it's a very brief statement and still manages to contain a boatload of ambiguity.
The key word "wants" and the Kouri families' "no comment" both indicate this is anything but settled as of August 15 anyway, when this was released.
More importantly perhaps, if one is speculating on what happens next:
(1)They must want to sell
(2)I suspect limited interest given my layman's understanding of the settlement agreement with Hyperion CVBA.
As I understand it, any buyer would have to continue to honor that agreement, which would (as it does now) severly limit the buyer's options. To me this makes it of value only to someone already involved that also just happens to want the "name".
#6_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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pavlor
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 29-Aug-2015 12:04:31
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9636
From: Unknown | | |
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| @number6
How big these debts to settle may be? |
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 29-Aug-2015 12:15:26
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @pavlor
Quote:
How big these debts to settle may be? |
Quote:
tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate |
That's kinda like saying "between 200 and 2000 sold" (evil grin) 20-90 million then?
It's also unclear if the article means to say that all of that has been addressed.
Quote:
generally cleaning up the estate of |
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That indicates work was done, but not the same as saying outright "all debts have been paid", right?
#6
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Raffaele
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 29-Aug-2015 16:22:20
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Super Member |
Joined: 7-Dec-2005 Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy | | |
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| @number6
There are also grant investments, my dear number6, you know...
A grant investment take set when a tycoon gives you funds to complete a project or open a merchandise/shop/manifacture plant, but without requiring money back.
It is like a sort of pro-bono beneficence to let enterprises or new firms growing up. Last edited by Raffaele on 29-Aug-2015 at 04:27 PM. Last edited by Raffaele on 29-Aug-2015 at 04:25 PM. Last edited by Raffaele on 29-Aug-2015 at 04:22 PM.
_________________ "When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996). |
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 30-Aug-2015 12:07:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @Raffaele
Quote:
There are also grant investments, my dear number6, you know |
As in "angel investors", which I've written about. True.
But this is positively NOT the case here.
One of many threads
which should illustrate the relationships and how happy people of great wealth and power must have felt about the results.(/end sarcasm) If you read this link, keep in mind that Pentti Kouri=ITEC and former Amiga Inc. board of director's member Ryszard Krauze=ProKom, both of whom filed leins in the settlement agreement.
If you think this indicates a group of angel investors who were not expecting anything...
You might also enjoy reading same topic from when the author of freeamiga came to visit AW:
Source and Source etc.
#6Last edited by number6 on 30-Aug-2015 at 12:16 PM.
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 9-Jan-2018 16:34:15
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @thread
Quote:
The sculpture came from the estate of the late Dr. Pentti Kouri, who accumulated a significant art collection with leanings toward Minimalism, Arte Povera, Conceptual and text-based art. Beginning with this auction, Millea Bros. is offering 400 works from his collection over several sales in the next year. |
Source December 2017
ok. So Reed Smith is nowhere near closing Kouri's estate.
#6
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number6
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Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate Posted on 1-May-2018 17:02:53
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11616
From: In the village | | |
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| @thread
Still more of the estate being sold off in May.
https://auctions.milleabros.com/
Quote:
Contemporary Art and Design from the Collection of Dr. Pentti Kouri including Tim Hawkinsen, Lawrence Carrol, Hermann Nitsch, and Otto Zitko |
#6
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