@Kronos

The production numbers are from Amiga Format, the Commodore US executive, and Commodore Frankfurt.

From the Commodore - The Final Years book, the upper limit for AGA's planned production run is half a million (my cited total AGA numbers are in range), and Commodore management was late on ordering the AA Lisa chips and fell back on the plan B A600's mass production with A500's 1991 production scale.

From Commodore - The Final Years

Unfortunately, when it came time to manufacture the machines,
poor planning had resulted in a shortage of crucial chips. “I recall
one mistake towards the end of Commodore where they did not
order the correct chips for the A1200, the AGA chips,� recalls Dale
Luck. “People wanted the new graphics of the A1200 and A4000, but
they didn’t order enough of the [Lisa] chips from Hewlett-Packard to
actually make a half-million of the new Amigas.�

Because there were not enough AGA chips to manufacture the
A1200, Ali went to his backup plan of manufacturing A600 systems
instead. In early September, SCI-UK began producing A600
computers for the Christmas season. This was an odd move,
because Commodore should have been trying to clear out its
inventory of A600 systems in anticipation of the A1200 launch.
As a result, Ali’s team manufactured too many A600 computers for
the market to absorb. “There were some mistakes made with buying
a million A600s and then having to write them off,� says Dale Luck.




By the end of 1993 and into early January 1994, AGA units reached around half a million Amigas with Lisa chips.


Phase 5 PPC effort ignored the significant minority CD32 AGA and the majority A500 install base (despite GVP A530 being a major seller for GVP). PPC accelerator in A600 is not going to happen and is ignored.

My total AGA number estimates are within or around Commodore's half-million of the new Amigas with Lisa chips.

AGA production ramp-up should have been pushed 1 year earlier in 1991.

A2000's "few" 100,000 production scale is just an estimate based on Germany's 124,500 A2000 unit sales.

A "few" of 100,000 production scale could mean a 200,000 or a 300,000 unit range i.e. it's certainly not 1,000,000 production unit scale for A2000s.

A "few" of 10,00 production scale could mean a 20,000 or a 30,000 unit range i.e. it's certainly not 1,000,000 production unit scale for A3000s.

A "few" of 10,00 production scale could mean a 20,000 or a 30,000 unit range i.e. it's certainly not 1,000,000 production unit scale for A4000s.

It's known that the A500 has a "few" of 1,000,00 production scale.


http://www.bambi-amiga.co.uk/amigahistory/sales.html

These figures are open to interpretation and can never be accurately predicted. A breakdown of these results to distinguish which machines sold more could be further queried. However, few Commodore subsidiaries prepared to release such information. One of the few people to make such information available was Dr. Peter Kittel, who worked for Commodore Germany until it filed for liquidation proceedings. He suggests there is a total of 5,292,200 Amigas world-wide and provides a breakdown of the number of machines sold in Germany. These are based upon recorded serial numbers of machines sold before December 31st, 1993 (Source: Marketing Department, Commodore Frankfurt).

Germany
Amiga CD32 25,000
Amiga CDTV 25,800
Amiga 500 1,081,000
Amiga 500+ 79,500
Amiga 600 193,000
Amiga 1000 27,500
Amiga 1200 95,500
Amiga 2000 124,500
Amiga 3000 8,300
Amiga 4000/030 7,500
Amiga 4000/040 3,800
Amiga 3000(T) CA.6000
Amiga 3000(T)- 040 (030 CPU absent) CA. 80

There are 10 times more A500 (and A500+) in Germany than Amiga 1200s! This provides a sum total of 1,677,480 Amigas sold in Germany


The total: AGA Amigas in Germany is 131,300 units, which is about 26.7 percent of 491,300 AGA units. The other major Amiga markets are the UK, the US, Canada, and the Nordic countries. The UK's Amiga market is said to rival Germany's.

Germany's Amiga model ratio can be scaled to a total of 5,292,200 Amigas worldwide.

Phase 5's 060 and PPC coverage is only for Amiga minority models i.e. A1500/A2000, A1200, A3000, and A4000.

The other major Amiga market is the UK.

Amiga demographics is not like Apple's 1.2 million PowerMac sales from sometime 1994 to Jan 1995 (cite ref 1).

Hint: Apple's Mac LC I had 500,000 sales before the LC II's "best-selling" Mac model in 1992.

Amiga is not a Mac. The Petro PPC camp is in a delusion to think that the Amiga is like a Mac.

You haven't cited market intelligence for the Amiga's production numbers.

Unlike the Amiga world, the PC world has proper market intelligence statistics to aid investment decisions.


Reference
1. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/1995-01-15/it-just-may-be-the-year-of-the-apple


If AGA sales numbers are treated as worldwide
44,000 (the UK has 30,000 during its launch),
100,000 (AF50, Sep 1993),
170,000 (AF56, Feb 1994),
166,000 (CD32, Commodore US president, Jan 1994),
7,500 (Germany's A4000/030),
3,800 (Germany's A4000/040),
Total: 491,300 AGA units.


From the Commodore - The Final Years book

Commodore UK ended up selling 87,000 units by December 31,
1993.

Commodore CD32 sold 46,000 units in the rest of Europe
(particularly in the Scandinavian countries), 12,000 units in North
America, and 21,000 in the rest of the world, for a worldwide total of
166,000. This was considered a failure, largely because Commodore
would have needed to sell 400,000 units to survive. The main
problem was not demand for the CD32, which was strong, but rather
a lack of production capacity.


Minus Germany's CD32 25,000 units from worldwide 166,000 = 141,000 CD32 AGA units.

Germany's 131,300 AGA units + worldwide 141,000 CD32 AGA units = 272,300 AGA units.

If you add the UK's low estimate of 100,000 A1200 units, that's 372,300 AGA units i.e. 75 percent of the 491,300 AGA units estimate.

If you add the UK's 170,000 A1200 units, that's 442,300 AGA units i.e. 90 percent of the 491,300 AGA units estimate.

https://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1995/at951106
From Nov 1995,
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have sold our first 20,000 Amigas 1200 in Europe. These were not only sold to our distributors and dealers, all of them went over the shelves to the end-users. Our Backlog is still 60,000.

Escom sold its 1st 20,000 A1200 units.
The total AGA Amigas reaches 452,300 units i.e. Pedro's (20,000 + 60,000) + 372,300 AGA units

The total AGA Amigas reaches 522,300 units i.e. Pedro's (20,000 + 60,000) + 442,300 AGA units

I haven't included A1200 and A4000 units from North America, Oceania, and Nordic countries.

Regardless of how you skin a cat, the total AGA units can reach about half a million.

Remove 166,000 CD32 units from 452,300 AGA units, that's 286,300 AGA units market size for Phase 5's 68040/68060 and PPC 604e/603e potential with at least AGA display.

Remove 166,000 CD32 units from 522,300 AGA units, that's 356,300 AGA units market size for Phase 5's 68040/68060 and PPC 604e/603e potential with at least AGA display.

My core argument's production scale's magnitude did not change.

------------------------
TheA500mini's unit sales have exceeded 100,000 units.

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@Hammer

And what the point of all that endless off topic nonsense?

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @Hammer And what the point of all that endless off topic nonsense?

The topic starter's "Mirari new low cost PowerPC Board" assertion was

I posted "Mirari 's under £800 would translate into US$1,064.93, which is US$463.67 in 1992" as a response in the context of why Commodore's A500 had a sales boom from 1989 to 1991.

I used Commodore's A500's "low cost" benchmark with its success.

You defended the PowerPC cool aid like a good Pedro PowerPC cultist.

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@Hammer

stop trolling start working on aros

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Kronos Quote: Kronos wrote: @Hammer And what the point of all that endless off topic nonsense? The topic starter's "Mirari new low cost PowerPC Board" assertion was ...

The real posting (concerning PowerPC) was

AmigaOS3.3 / OS4.1 Update 3 / Pistorm / PPC coming to Eu68 / Mirari / ExecSG Multicore

Round up of the big news at Amiga 40 Germany
...

Mirari new low cost PowerPC Board

...

@OneTimer1

Read carefully, the attached "low cost" assertion was LOL. I didn't deny Mirari's existence.

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@ppcamiga1

Amiga 500 (with PiStormEmu68-RPi 4B) still has the C= "Commodore-Amiga" brand. Anything less might as well run on WinUAE with some other branded PC e.g. my gaming PCs has MSI MPG and ASUS ROG branded.

Pedro-Amiga PowerPC is just a half-baked retro solution with just the "stolen" (legally disputed**) AmigaOS brand.

**Refer to the ongoing Cloanto Corporation vs Hyperion Entertainment CVBA legal battle.

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@Hammer

Quote:

I didn't deny Mirari's existence.

And who made that claim? Nobody....

I don't care what you think about Petro, C= era sales numbers or what is or is not an Amiga. I even don't care about how you define "low cost".

Still you used BS math on a BS number.

Quite simple actually and quite clear that you haven't had a factual counter to that simple fact. hence you running around spouting off topic nonsense and insults.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @OneTimer1 Read carefully, the attached "low cost" assertion was LOL. I didn't deny Mirari's existence.

Ah OK, you could express that with a single line, nice done.

@Hammer

Quote:

Phase 5 PPC equipped Amigas are bound by their A2000/A1200/A3000/A4000 minority install base.

There was no PPC for the A2000. Plugging a developer board into a Blizzard 2060 doesn't count.

By the mid to late nineties the A4000 and A1200 were the systems most likely to be owned by customers with the disposable income to buy an expensive PPC card.

Phase 5 didn't have unlimited funds and supporting the A2000 and A500 would have required two new designs. An A500 card would also need it's own housing along with RF shielding and PSU, which would have added to the retail price. SCSI would have had to be standard too, in order to ensure that all customers had the ability connect mass storage devices, which in turn would mean more external boxes taking up space.

If an A500 PPC card had been released it would have been more attractive to buy a new A1200 and a Blizzard PPC instead. A new A1200 Magic pack could be picked up for under £200 in 1998 and with it's built in IDE it was easy to add inexpensive hard drices and CD ROMs.

Rather than opening PPC up to larger market, an A500 PPC expansion would have been a costly mistake for Phase 5.

@Kronos

Quote:

And who made that claim? Nobody....

Read:

So you don't believe the Mirari board was shown at this event?


You can't read.

Quote:

I don't care what you think about Petro, C= era sales numbers or what is or is not an Amiga. I even don't care about how you define "low cost".

Hint: TheA1200 is reaching mainstream stores.
https://www.reddit.com/r/amiga/comments/1ow03um/thea1200_megathread/

RGL (UK): 1
Pedro camp (DE): 0


https://www.ebgames.com.au/product/pc/337285-the-a1200-console
TheA1200's preorder page has reached mainstream EB Games Australia.

EB Game is the largest store network in Australia and Canada. In Australia, it includes over 380 EB Games stores and 40 Zing Pop Culture stores, while the Canadian network is also extensive and is rebranding to focus more on the EB Games name.

Australia's market size is roughly equivalent to the Nordic countries group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries



Quote:

Still you used BS math on a BS number.

It's not bullshit.

Quote:

Quite simple actually and quite clear that you haven't had a factual counter to that simple fact.

The simple fact, you're in dreamland.

Quote:

hence you running around spouting off topic nonsense and insults.

Look in the mirror.

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@Rob

Quote:

There was no PPC for the A2000. Plugging a developer board into a Blizzard 2060 doesn't count.

My "060 / PPC" covers either the 060 accelerator or a combination of 040/PPC or 060/PPC accelerators.

These are Pentium-class level CPUs i.e. MPC Level 3 or greater.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_PC
Games like Tomb Raider targeted the MPC Level 3.

Games like Doom targeted the MPC Level 2. PC's Dark Forces (1995) targeted MPC Level 2.

Games like Wing Commander 1 targeted the MPC Level 1, which is CD32 equivalent.

Phase 5's 040/PPC or 060/PPC accelerators targeting only A1200 and A3000/A4000 are even smaller.

Quote:

Phase 5 didn't have unlimited funds and supporting the A2000 and A500 would have required two new designs. An A500 card would also need it's own housing along with RF shielding and PSU, which would have added to the retail price. SCSI would have had to be standard too, in order to ensure that all customers had the ability connect mass storage devices, which in turn would mean more external boxes taking up space.

A1200's BlizzardPPC with BVision is relatively small i.e. they fit inside A500's case.

My TF1260 card easily fits inside the A500's case. A500's case is larger than A1200's case.

A common SBC design like RPi wasn't a thing for Phase 5.

RPi (UK): 1
Phase 5 (DE): 0

Quote:

If an A500 PPC card had been released it would have been more attractive to buy a new A1200 and a Blizzard PPC instead.

A1200 has mass production problems.

Quote:

A new A1200 Magic pack could be picked up for under £200 in 1998 and with it's built in IDE it was easy to add inexpensive hard drices and CD ROMs.

That doesn't solve A1200's mass production issues.

In 1995, Escom could do a batch of 20,000 A1200 units with 60,000 backorders.

TheA500mini (RGL/Cloanto Amiga licensed) exceeded 100,000 units sold.

When I was in the Vampire V2 queue during COVID-19 lockdown, Apollo Computers claimed more than "10,000" Vampires.

A1200's production scale is worse with Escom when compared to Commodore's.

Vampire V2/V4 and PiStorm have tapped into the larger A500 market.

Amiga OCS's critical mass was reached at the end of 1988 with about 1 million install base.
Amiga in 1989 was influencing game development with Amiga 1st game development instead of bad Atari ST ports.


Quote:

Rather than opening PPC up to larger market, an A500 PPC expansion would have been a costly mistake for Phase 5.

Reminder, Phase 5 also targeted the larger PowerPC Macintosh market. https://everymac.com/upgrade_cards/phase5/

https://everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_manufacturer/
Phase 5 wasn't the only PPC CPU accelerator card vendor for the Power Mac i.e. 12 from the US and 3 from DE (Germany).

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