@Thread

I have to say following my purchase of a Macbook Pro it's less likely now! It was great to see the prototype at the VCF but I'd have a hard time justifying a purchase to the wife!! Looks like I'll forever be a Classic 'Miggy owner and never Next Gen

That is unless the X1000 has AGA game/apps compatibilty or a downloadable Amiga Classic Game store and then I'd be interested whatever the price (within reason)!

P.S. Starcraft 2 rocks!! Best RTS I've played since Napalm!

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@BigD

the store comes true!

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@Thread

If number of Yeses become real sales, Trevor have just sold his first batch of X1000s!

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: Wow, 137 "yes" votes, wonder if thats a good indication of beta tester sigh-ups?

I thought it interesting that over in the other camp (a.org) the response is close to universally 'no'. It's lots of money for what's essentially an Amiga collectible.

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@JimS

A.org isn't pro os4 so I'm not surprised about their comments. Funny, amigans is 100% pro os4 & they don't even acknowledge this poll. The "no" votes are immaterial at this point, I'm sure a-eon is quite happy with the "yes" votes. I just hope the poll results are true.

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@sundown

Amigans doesn't acknowledge this poll? Check out down the right-hand side of the screen - that poll is very similar is it not? ^.^

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@djrikki

Typically your looking at a very small % who answer these polls actually buy the product. If it was 2500 responding they will buy it, then you may sell the 250 (or not). If your only getting a couple of hundred "yes" answers, it's more likely to be "mercy" yes in order to save face.

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Dammy

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: A.org isn't pro os4 so I'm not surprised about their comments. Funny, amigans is 100% pro os4 & they don't even acknowledge this poll. The "no" votes are immaterial at this point, I'm sure a-eon is quite happy with the "yes" votes. I just hope the poll results are true.

I hope enough folk buy it to make it worth A-eon's time. I'd be interested if I suddenly came into lots of disposable income.

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@djrikki

Quote:

Amigans doesn't acknowledge this poll?

I think he meant to say "didn't have as high a participtation rate as the AW poll", since Amigans.net showed less than 10% of the "yes" responses that the AW poll shows.

This particular AW poll, should be looked at with a cautious eye.
AW standard thread polls, don't carry the same weight as an AW xoops poll, where certain checks are in place regarding voting.

In fact, when someone is seeking a truer result, they usually request staff for such a poll to be instituted. The current poll is obviously just for fun.

#6

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@JimS

Quote:

I hope enough folk buy it to make it worth A-eon's time. I'd be interested if I suddenly came into lots of disposable income.

Regardless of polls and statistics, I think A-Eon will sell the first 250 without great difficulty. They have already assigned 125 of them to the beta test program as boards only, leaving 125 complete systems still to sell upon final release. There are enough AmigaOS and Power Architecture fans to sell 125 complete systems to, I think. And added to that, there has been some interest in the methods Varisys have used to integrate the XMOS, which might translate into a few extra sales.


Trevor Dickinson has told us that A-Eon had spent about ¤250,000 on the R&D for the X1000 as of June 2010 and has been known to state that the financial goal is to break even rather than to make vast profits. My assessment of the situation is that A-Eon plans to cover most of that R&D cost with the first 250 machines, reducing the risk to them in case of disaster but making a second production run in the event of success cheaper.

@T-J

Quote:

Trevor Dickinson has told us that A-Eon had spent about ¤250,000 on the R&D for the X1000 as of June 2010 and has been known to state that the financial goal is to break even rather than to make vast profits. My assessment of the situation is that A-Eon plans to cover most of that R&D cost with the first 250 machines, reducing the risk to them in case of disaster but making a second production run in the event of success cheaper.

Sorry, the numbers do not work out. 250K Euro divided by 250 machines = 1K Euros on top of cost and profit for Hyperion, A-EON and AmiKit. Even if your "most of R&D" would still be 500+ Euros @ machine and we know that can't be true with the discount the 125 Beta folks are getting.

If the final retail machine comes to over 2,100 Euros, I doubt they will sell all of the 125 retailed systems.

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Dammy

I'm still a little pie'd off that I cant just get the motherboard.... I already heve the rest.....
And I still don't like the case....

But, Yeah, If I can spare the cash when it's available (or much later even) I will get one.

Martin

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@damocles

Quote:

Sorry, the numbers do not work out. 250K Euro divided by 250 machines = 1K Euros on top of cost and profit for Hyperion, A-EON and AmiKit. Even if your "most of R&D" would still be 500+ Euros @ machine and we know that can't be true with the discount the 125 Beta folks are getting.If the final retail machine comes to over 2,100 Euros, I doubt they will sell all of the 125 retailed systems.

There are no profits until the R&D/production costs are covered. I'm not dumb enough to believe this poll is accurate as far as sales are concerned, but 125 beta systems alone at 2000 euros each covers the 250K euros just fine.

As far as the beta program, I know of 7 ppl that have sent money so far & thats impressive considering the small number of ppl I interact with in the Amiga community.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote: Regardless of polls and statistics, I think A-Eon will sell the first 250 without great difficulty. They have already assigned 125 of them to the beta test program as boards only, leaving 125 complete systems still to sell upon final release. There are enough AmigaOS and Power Architecture fans to sell 125 complete systems to, I think.

I think you are a bit wrong. The beta boards are beta boards. Whatever the production run is, they cannot just get relabeled after the beta test and get sold as finished product. If they did I would say that's a bit fishy. They must produce a batch of beta boards, do the test and *then* produce a batch of the finalized design.
Anyway, a production run of 250 should get sold in a not too long time.

But I will not belong to the purchasers - too bulky box and too much money for way too little benefit, don't like the business model and wasn't impressed by it when I saw it at the Essen show.

Last edited by Zylesea on 02-Oct-2010 at 09:13 PM.

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@T-J

Quote:

They have already assigned 125 of them to the beta test program as boards only,

Are they going to have 125 beta testers? There are always applicants who bail out at the last minute due to money issues or whatever reasons.

Quote:

leaving 125 complete systems still to sell upon final release.

On how many months? It is far easier tick "yes" vote in a forum poll than buy a product for real. For such expensive products sales are quite slow as it has been with other products in the past (not to mention scarce dealer network).

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: It is far easier tick "yes" vote in a forum poll than buy a product for real.

And, it is far more prudent not to vote at all if it goes into the YES box. Especially around here.



Also....Have you noticed how the 'expert' sales people keep slipping the number lower.

It is strange how those that don't use, or care about OS4, seem to have a direct pipeline to
what's going on inside A-eon/Varisys/Xmos.

@Mechanic

If your home team was in the Super Bowl wouldnt you wish your team to win? Even when it doesnt look likely?

Obviously those who are using or used OS4 tend to wish that it makes it well this time. Winning it big time against all odds. Others cant see any chance to win -- it didnt win yesterday so why would it win today? There could be 1000:1 ratio for yes votes or vice versa yet it wouldnt convince either side to change mind (or me, I am obviously on the negative side).

Last edited by itix on 03-Oct-2010 at 12:11 AM.

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@damocles

Quote:

Sorry, the numbers do not work out. 250K Euro divided by 250 machines = 1K Euros on top of cost and profit for Hyperion, A-EON and AmiKit. Even if your "most of R&D" would still be 500+ Euros @ machine and we know that can't be true with the discount the 125 Beta folks are getting. If the final retail machine comes to over 2,100 Euros, I doubt they will sell all of the 125 retailed systems.

Right, ¤250,000 divided by 250 is ¤1000 per X1000. So, that's just paid the minimum R&D cost, but you don't have the manufacturing costs included. That'll be on top of the R&D. And there'll be miscellaneous costs like shipping, branded packaging etc to pay for as well.

Production runs as small as 250 aren't cheap. Add several hundred euros per board. Then take into account that half the boards are being sold at a discount to beta testers.

It gets into the 'north of £1500' region for the complete systems pretty quickly, once you add a decent PCIe graphics card, the branded case, some RAM and the OS to the bundle.

But regardless all that, yes, if the final machine comes to much over ¤2100 they will find it a challenge to shift all 125. I'm betting it'll be around ¤1800, actually. But I don't know.


@ Zylesea

Quote:

I think you are a bit wrong. The beta boards are beta boards. Whatever the production run is, they cannot just get relabeled after the beta test and get sold as finished product. If they did I would say that's a bit fishy. They must produce a batch of beta boards, do the test and *then* produce a batch of the finalized design.

The boards are revision 2, so hardware problems should have mostly been sorted out by now, surely? They've been using a standard Linux to debug the hardware itself, so I think its actually the software that's being beta-tested more than the hardware. Drivers, OS stability, applications. That sort of thing.

If so, then in a market this small I see no problem with the beta systems becoming finished products, once the software is, well, finished.

Quote:

Anyway, a production run of 250 should get sold in a not too long time. But I will not belong to the purchasers - too bulky box and too much money for way too little benefit, don't like the business model and wasn't impressed by it when I saw it at the Essen show.

Fair enough. To be honest, I'm probably going to go for a Sam460ex, at least for now. But I was quite impressed by what I saw and heard from Varisys at the VCF, and I don't see what's seriously wrong with the business model.

@itix

Trevor Dickinson has stated that the beta test programme has been well-subscribed to, so they probably have some spares in case of bailouts. But it doesn't matter. As you say, I can't persuade you and you can't persuade me. We will find out who was right sooner or later.

@itix

Quote:

If your home team was in the Super Bowl wouldnt you wish your team to win? Even when it doesnt look likely? Obviously those who are using or used OS4 tend to wish that it makes it well this time. Winning it big time against all odds. Others cant see any chance to win -- it didnt win yesterday so why would it win today? There could be 1000:1 ratio for yes votes or vice versa yet it wouldnt convince either side to change mind (or me, I am obviously on the negative side).

I think I see what you mean. The fans want it to succeed (irrationally so sometimes). But when you put it in those terms, it sounds like theres two teams and each fan base wants the other team to fail.