@Jupp3

Quite a few.
The Peg2, Micros, A1's and Sam-Itx models.
The new model cards wont work with the Peg2 and there is an issue with DMA
support for the other models resulting in very slow transfer rates from pci to graphics cards.


Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: @Spectre660 Quote: Gallium wont work with 7xxx and 9xxx cards so a Warp3D type layer to support older cards may be needed. MiniGL is VERY outdated / incomplete compared to modern OpenGL (even if we forget about lack of shader support). In any case, there definitely should be something better than what MiniGL offers. Also, how much does this really matter? Certain A1 boards have onboard GPU, and iirc one PCI slot, where you could install a better one. Are there many "non-upgradeable" supported systems?

Last edited by Spectre660 on 14-Jun-2013 at 01:29 PM.

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@OlafS25

... small company big price ... big company small price
at the second one exception are Microsoft and Apple ...

about the point that i wrote, you have to see it in time line eg: first, second, third etc...
about using aros ... ok i m glad you are using aros( i use and Amiga 4000 with 3,9 and i m happy ) ... i was writing about comparing my same system i have a Sam 460 and all users who have sam 460 and x1000 with a new PCIe card need/wanna/pretend Gallium/warp3d/GL/MinGL/mesa or how you prefer call 3d graphic driver for our systems ...
and not for old games because the old warpos games dont run on our machine but because 3d acceleration speed up SDL/Qt software ...


hope you understand better what we are hope for...

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@Spectre660

Quote:

Quite a few.The Peg2, Micros, A1's and Sam-Itx models.The new model cards wont work with the Peg2 and there is an issue with DMAsupport for the other models resulting in very slow transfer rates from pci to graphics cards.

And the Micro won't accept a graphics card - period. Let's not drag out experimental uboot versions to cloud that one.

#6

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@tlosm

Yes I wrote that MESA/Gallium is important for porting (modern) games. Warp3D update was (propably) only initiated by Trevor D. to get 3D at all because at that time (before Amiwest 2012) it was propably not predictable even for him when MESA/Gallium (as part of 4.2. update) would be available (that was my guess at this time and that 4.2. is at least 6 months away otherwise paying Warp3D would not have made any sense).

But most users are too fixed that when AmigaOS is having MP and Multicore support all problems are solved but that is not true. Developers (at least if you look at it from commercial) are not interested in MP but in users (potential buyers) and they need a smooth way in the market. Smooth means for me lots of documentation and support, programming environments (f.e. crosscompiler) and the option to use modern 3D-Engines and support the platform without too much additional efforts. And also important is to have affordable hardware. Geek machines are for geeks but no chance to win new users.

@number6

Yes.

I was trying to keep it simple.

_________________
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@OlafS25

About what potential users you are speaking about ? ...
The new users will be the all amigans left the scene some years ago...
I m sure when Alfkil will finish the porting of Qt and we will have the 3d accel probably will rejoin in our community some users lost in time... for have in the best way the same situation of 2001/2004 years

For have the platform start be commercial for everyone ... will be needed big steps and big investment....
will be needed a full os modern in all the way comparable with Android os, windows, Macos, Linux.
Will be needed a great visual dev kit.
will be need a killer apps for the market...
(Video, Music, Foto, Gaming, 3d rendering)
will be need a complete package of Office integrate with the Os api....
will be need a real complete e 100% working web browser...

after this step we can speak about new users not amigans in the past and totally new bee.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@tlosm

Quote:

About what potential users you are speaking about ? ... The new users will be the all amigans left the scene some years ago... I m sure when Alfkil will finish the porting of Qt and we will have the 3d accel probably will rejoin in our community some users lost in time... for have in the best way the same situation of 2001/2004 years For have the platform start be commercial for everyone ... will be needed big steps and big investment.... will be needed a full os modern in all the way comparable with Android os, windows, Macos, Linux. Will be needed a great visual dev kit. will be need a killer apps for the market... (Video, Music, Foto, Gaming, 3d rendering) will be need a complete package of Office integrate with the Os api.... will be need a real complete e 100% working web browser... after this step we can speak about new users not amigans in the past and totally new bee.

its all too late for that. no chance.
some of the people who left will perhaps rejoin at some point if they have an opportunity, but this will be only a fraction. most who left will remember how they have been treated and will want to leave all that behind for understandable reasons. especially that it looks like that its intentionally being made difficult for people to join, return or even keep up with os4 platform. not very encouraging, especially when even x1k users break out in disappointment about the development and start to think about abandoning the scene.

the whole (post)amiga scene (and i mean the whole) is for geeks and can attract geeks even if without much amiga background, but it must be open. what can attract people, make fun and even unite us to some degree is helping out and working on common causes. that is cool. but being locked out and left dreaming and waiting forever with folded hands for uncertain developments that never ever get complete is not cool.

edit: man, have i made lotta typos..

Last edited by wawa on 14-Jun-2013 at 06:45 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 14-Jun-2013 at 05:21 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 14-Jun-2013 at 05:21 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 14-Jun-2013 at 05:20 PM.

@wawa

I know good mate ... i been exit from amiga scene for about 10y ... just because amiga fun means spend much money... and last 10 years was very hard ...
Last year i had some income and with sell some of my collection "commodore" thanks of this i been buy 2 Sam 440 after sold for buy my 460... x1000 is a reall hard to buy only if i will win at a lottery probably i will buy it...

After this 10 year i can really see the change of the Amiga Os and the Hw... but like 10 years ago the software and the drivers are the big trouble of our beloved platform .
but in all the case some times we return on it ...because it is part of us... is part of our past youngness and our lost battle versus M$ ... but some time from the dust can be born a phenix...

Last edited by tlosm on 14-Jun-2013 at 06:14 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

*post doubled**

sorry

Last edited by tlosm on 14-Jun-2013 at 05:31 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@Spectre660

Quote:

Quite a few. The Peg2, Micros, A1's and Sam-Itx models. The new model cards wont work with the Peg2 and there is an issue with DMA support for the other models resulting in very slow transfer rates from pci to graphics cards.

Yes, but as far as I know, a considerable amount of 7xxx/9xxx series cards already have hardware Warp3D support. This just sounded like someone wanted Warp3D support for newer cards, which currently don*t have any 3D support. I cannot see much sense in that (at least if it would delay the official 3D solution release, OpenGL). Of course it wouldn't make any sense to "remove" it from hardware it already supports, unless it needs to be done due to API changes or similar.

@Jupp3

One of the Goals of the new AmigaOS OpenGl is to
Quote:

Provide a hardware-accelerated OpenGL for applications, games, and the operating system

They will need to have 3D hardware drivers for graphics cards not supported by Gallium.
According to Hyperions Easter Update revisiting Warp3D has had its benefit.
Quote:

Gallium : bumped to Mesa 9.1, i.e. OpenGL 3.1. Software renderer already implemented, work on hardware accelerated drivers within the framework of Gallium will benefit substantially by the experience gained developing Warp3D drivers for the AMD Radeon Evergreen range (Radeon HD 5xxx/6xxx).

Last edited by Spectre660 on 16-Jun-2013 at 12:28 AM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 16-Jun-2013 at 12:26 AM.

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@terminills

Quote:

terminills wrote: @wawa number6 cheats... http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/search.php

I would imagine number6 uses "[search terms] site:amigaworld.net" in Google, which is quicker and far more user-friendly than Amigaworld's search engine. (At least that's what I do when I want to find something)

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opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@Spectre660

Quote:

They will need to have 3D hardware drivers for graphics cards not supported by Gallium.

Even if there will be some "common" higher level drivers, some old/new split will be inevitable. Older models just will not support shaders. Not only that, running shaders in software emulation is "highly impractical" (as it means drawing each pixel separately according to user specified program)

Of course any "gallium-capable" system shouldn't have any issues running old "fixed function" OpenGL code that we currently have.

@realize

Quote:

Ok so still til this day not one pic or anything of the so called os4 laptop. All you guys who ridiculed me and banned me and called me a troll owe me an apology... lol

Would not be "mystical" if it was at disposal

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@Boot_WB

that's what I use. But number6 uses the hidden search too.

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@terminills

@persia

lol I see you noticed my new sig? :D

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@persia

That cartoon is perfect!

I love all the "gallium" talk... cant wait for it to come out so I can replace all my kick ass SNAP Drivers for os4!!11!

@persia

So the day we stop believeing our own hype we might just as well ... click POOF

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@vox

the hype will stay until there is MESA/Gallium, MP, 64bit and Multicore-support. So propably until forever . But at least people have something to hope for...

As I wrote from my point of view lack of software and affordable competitive hardware is a bigger problem than the mentioned missing features.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-Jun-2013 at 09:24 AM.